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Author
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Topic: Better than Slowking
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The Dark Llama
Member
Member # 75434
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posted December 27, 2002 08:17 AM
YOu people don't get the point here: D. Ville STOPS TRAINERS!!!
Why would you have Trianers in your decks whe nyou know darn right out that you can't use them!
Yes, Muk could destroy THIS strategy, but what idiot only puts one strategy into a deck? All of us know, should the main strategy fail, a secondary one must be at hand so you can recoil!!
My guess - put in Dark Forretress(Destiny) Heracross (Genesis) or the kick-butt Scyther (Discovery) with his Fury Cutter!
Since when has doing 90 damage for 2 Energy been a bad thing? But wait! - Why stop there! Throw in a Skarmory or two comboed with Metal Energies and then *gasp* you could put in Scizor!!
Amazing how little thought goes on around here...
stupid sheep.
Now I don't mean to insult anyone here, just that it seems that we look too hard for that which is in front of us.
[ December 27, 2002, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: The Dark Llama ]
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Best Decks
Kurai Tsuki no Kokoro
Dark Ampharos/Dark Espeon
31-7
Kage Ha!
Dark Scizor
8-0
Elm, Oak, Cleffa and Copycat are archetypes.
YGO Deck:
Yukai na Shi ni yotte Ryu
Pleasant Death by way of Dragon
25-8
My have/want list
One Sentence Add-On!
From: San Diego | Registered: Apr 2002
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mercad
Member
Member # 22435
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posted December 31, 2002 01:24 PM
u need trainers to go fast, no trainers = ur dead, and i'll put money where my mouth is
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Team Delibird Co-Leader
"Don't be touching your little delibird"
Buk Buk
Merc: Gengar dont make me pull out the big guns
DMTM: NO! don't he's my friend
Gengar: GENGAR!
Merc: Ok! Go DELIBIRD!
Delibird: Deli... Delibird
Merc: Delibird use present!
Delibird: DELI!
Gengar: ?_?
Gengar: GENGAR!
DMTM: Looks like were blasting off again
From: Rancho Cucamunga, California, United States | Registered: May 2001
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mercad
Member
Member # 22435
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posted December 31, 2002 01:25 PM
u need trainers to go fast, no trainers = ur dead, and i'll put money where my mouth is
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Team Delibird Co-Leader
"Don't be touching your little delibird"
Buk Buk
Merc: Gengar dont make me pull out the big guns
DMTM: NO! don't he's my friend
Gengar: GENGAR!
Merc: Ok! Go DELIBIRD!
Delibird: Deli... Delibird
Merc: Delibird use present!
Delibird: DELI!
Gengar: ?_?
Gengar: GENGAR!
DMTM: Looks like were blasting off again
From: Rancho Cucamunga, California, United States | Registered: May 2001
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The Dark Llama
Member
Member # 75434
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posted January 03, 2003 01:52 PM
I kinda understood you the first time, but why double post.
Like I said before, my grass deck has 3 trainers in it, and it never looses. Trainers are really there to take up space, to ut another twist on the game, without them, you have to stick to good ol' Pokemon, not a game to see who has the best Trianer cards
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Best Decks
Kurai Tsuki no Kokoro
Dark Ampharos/Dark Espeon
31-7
Kage Ha!
Dark Scizor
8-0
Elm, Oak, Cleffa and Copycat are archetypes.
YGO Deck:
Yukai na Shi ni yotte Ryu
Pleasant Death by way of Dragon
25-8
My have/want list
One Sentence Add-On!
From: San Diego | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged
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Super Celebi
Member
Member # 119481
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posted January 03, 2003 02:02 PM
The double post may have been a technical problem and not intentional.
My master once told me he had built an Unlimited deck that had several Trainer-stopping cards and just 4 Trainers, all of them Chaos Gym. The goal was to use Fossil Psyduck to stop Trainers until Chaos Gym is in play, then let that take over until Slowking arrives, then use Dark Vileplue to stop the barrage once and for all. Your opponents will then go after Dark Vileplume. If you lose it, you still have Slowking. Lose Slowking? There's still Chaos Gym. The deck was not built to win, just to stop Trainer usage.
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Two cards I hate are the Neo Genesis Cleffa and Pokémon Breeder. I use the latter only in emergencies and the former only in traveling emergencies.
I am NOT MrPokemonChallenge. I am his apprentice, who shares his views. I don't even live within 50 miles of MrPokemonChallenge.
From: A secret I have sworn only to my master, MrPokemonChallenge. | Registered: Dec 2002
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Maverick Hunter Zero
Member # 6223
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posted January 03, 2003 02:30 PM
quote:
Now I don't mean to insult anyone here, just that it seems that we look too hard for that which is in front of us.
Ok, you're right. Perfectly right, Dark Vileplume stops trainers. Perfectly, without flaw. No arguement there. But is it the better card?
NO
Ok, let's stop right there. Let's assume you've got that Dark Vileplume out. You're attacking with... bah, who cares, it's unlimited. Let's say you're attacking with something large, does heavy damage, doesn't matter. Now, what makes you think your opponent isn't going to be able to power something up? What makes you assume your opponent isn't going to get up something that can do damage? It's a foolish assumption reguardless. So let's assume your opponent DOES get something up to attack. The Dark Vileplume Strategy goes down since you have no way to heal yourself other then perhaps a earlier placed Healing Fields or Potion Energy. They place out a big attacker, they attack just as much as your attacker, you're both even.
Now... We get slowking here. Let's say we have 2 of these on the bench, that's fairly easy to get out. Your opponent now has a 25% chance of using a trainer. That's fine, you have a big attacker out, just like the Dark Vile deck. The ONLY difference besides your opponent's now miniscule chance of using a trainer, is that you're at an ADVANTAGE.
Dark Vileplume says NO trainers, but still, the playing field is even. NO trainers for either of you, unless of course the opponent brings out something that easily stomps it like Pichu or Igglybuff. With Slowking, you can still play healing items, disruption, card drawing, you name it. The opponent MOST LIKELY won't be able to use a trainer. And so what if they ARE able to sneak 1 or 2 by? You're still able to use far more. You can still Gust up an easy kill, use Energy Removal, Oak, etc.
quote:
YOu people don't get the point here: D. Ville STOPS TRAINERS!!!
That's just it though. We KNOW it stops trainers, ALL trainers, that's why we don't like it as much as Slowking. Pokemon may win prizes, but trainers win games. We LIKE being able to play Gold Berry after Gold Berry, or Focus Band after Focus Band, we LIKE being able to gust up something easier to kill. We DON'T like having to just duke it out with whatever our opponent sends up. Trainers give us control of the game, and we LIKE being able to use that control, while our opponent has drastically reduced Control.
Now of course, there are Pokemon that could use the effects of certain trainers in the Dark Vile Deck... But you'd have to include their energy, their previous evos (if any), and you've have to tech the deck in preperation for that Pokemon's natural enemy. Trainers are a no hassle deal...
If Dark vile is stopped by a Muk, you're going to have a hard time dealing with it due to the lack of trainers for you to use. Now, OBVIOUSLY one could reply with "Well, I'll just put those trainers in!" or "I'll tech in __________!". Well, the more trainers in a Dark Vile deck, the harder it'll be to RUN the deck, and the more Pokemon, the more you'll have to tech it...
Slowking doesn't really have any of these problems. You stop Slowking, ok, I still have the trainers to STOP what's harming Slowking. I could use them no matter what anyway.
quote:
Yes, Muk could destroy THIS strategy, but what idiot only puts one strategy into a deck? All of us know, should the main strategy fail, a secondary one must be at hand so you can recoil!!
You go ahead and play that second strategy. Stuffing both of those into a 60 card deck will inevitably make both strategies harder to run. You want to try and get BOTH running? That's fine with me, I'll prepare my ONE strategy faster and start taking whatever it is you have out because you're still WORKING on it.
Recap. Yes, Dark Vile stops trainers, no doubt, but it diminishes (severely) the trainer control on BOTH sides, NOT just your opponents. Control gives you an EXTREME advantage... You're going to want it at all times.
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http://www.mhzs-lair.com
AIM: MasterHunterZero
[email protected]
http://mhz.deviantart.com
It's not cowardly to run.
It's futile.
kachu Pika piii Kaa pi pikachu?
From: The strange, frightening world known as "SoCali" | Registered: Mar 2001
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The Dark Llama
Member
Member # 75434
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posted January 03, 2003 06:34 PM
Great.... so I can't use trainers, what's stopping me from using Pokemon Powers? Example: Venusar (Base OR Harvest Bounty)
Parasect (Revelation)
Meganium (Wild Growth)
Villeplume (Expedition)
Villeplum (Jungle)
Or Use Attacks to weaken opponent's Benches!
Dark Ariados (MEGA Killer of Babies with Focus Band)
Scyther(Discovery)
Dark Forretress
Beedrill(Base or Discovery)
Light Sunflora
Wait! Why stop, you could not play Villeplume and put in a Rockets Hideout, shooting al lyour heavy hitters up 20 HP, then..... how's THAT for advantage?
Why wait for the to build up someone to kill me? Poison them heavily and watch them die.
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Best Decks
Kurai Tsuki no Kokoro
Dark Ampharos/Dark Espeon
31-7
Kage Ha!
Dark Scizor
8-0
Elm, Oak, Cleffa and Copycat are archetypes.
YGO Deck:
Yukai na Shi ni yotte Ryu
Pleasant Death by way of Dragon
25-8
My have/want list
One Sentence Add-On!
From: San Diego | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged
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Maverick Hunter Zero
Member # 6223
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posted January 03, 2003 07:25 PM
Fine, you go ahead and use all those. You'll have to tech in cards to keep them safe, their previous evolutions, and things to keep them alive. UNFORTUNATELY 4 Potion Energy isn't going to help you as much as my 3-4 Gold Berry and 3-4 Focus Band, which I can still use if I'm running Slowking instead of Dark Vile.
For Powers, Pichu and Muk will eat you alive. If Muk comes out, they'll be using every trainer they can to kill off any and all chances of your getting something out to STOP that Muk.
One Steel Pokemon, and all those GRASS Pokemon you listed are toast.
This is unlimited here, they get ONE TURN to use trainers, and EVERYTHING you've worked for is most likely TOAST. Unlimited isn't as balanced as Modified, remember that.
So, you're planning on running 2-3 full evo lines, tons of Pokemon... So how exactly do you plan on getting them out quicker then my one, and keeping them alive? You're already running minimal trainers because it's a Dark Vile, and even more Pokemon?
With Slowking I can JUST USE THE TRAINERS, for Trainers I don't have to tech in the right energy, previous evolutions, protection from certain cards...
Trainers are speed, speed wins games. It doesn't matter WHAT you have to replace the trainers, trainers are FASTER. WHOEVER gets up their strategy faster wins. With Dark Vile, you're at an EVEN DISADVANTAGE. Slowking gives you an UNFAIR advantage. It's simple logic, you do NOT want the playing field level, you WANT it in your favor.
[ January 03, 2003, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Maverick Hunter Zero ]
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http://www.mhzs-lair.com
AIM: MasterHunterZero
[email protected]
http://mhz.deviantart.com
It's not cowardly to run.
It's futile.
kachu Pika piii Kaa pi pikachu?
From: The strange, frightening world known as "SoCali" | Registered: Mar 2001
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The Dark Llama
Member
Member # 75434
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posted January 03, 2003 08:28 PM
Fine, Fine, I admit that this deck would need LOTS of work before it could function perfectly, that I most likely will do. Yes, I realize some Trainers are definetly musts in any deck, includingthe Potion, maybe Gold berry... etc.
The main reason Slowking was banned was because he was mistranslated, meaning, the American version and Japanese versions worked VERY differently. Japanese had to have Slowking Active for Mind Games to Work, so if we were in Japan, your ideas would not be as powerful as you hoped. But with the mistranslation, throwing 3 or 4 Slowking on the Bench is just another archetype move that, if you see, was in BOTH the winning decks at Worlds
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Best Decks
Kurai Tsuki no Kokoro
Dark Ampharos/Dark Espeon
31-7
Kage Ha!
Dark Scizor
8-0
Elm, Oak, Cleffa and Copycat are archetypes.
YGO Deck:
Yukai na Shi ni yotte Ryu
Pleasant Death by way of Dragon
25-8
My have/want list
One Sentence Add-On!
From: San Diego | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged
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