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Author Topic: Strength Charm ruling must be changed!
IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted October 31, 2002 08:20 PM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I am relieved... my Slowking deck is ALREADY TecHed out as it is...
[Bored]

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SHUT UP & DO something about it

From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Otaku

Member # 42359



posted November 01, 2002 06:55 AM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
*Dark Macargo, Dark Ursaring, and LC Magneton stare at Otaku. All disappointedly return themselves to to his boxes and binders, annoyed at being woken up for nothing.

So, they can make stuff to reduce bench damage, but not too increase it? As usual, another card is layed to rest before it had a chance to live. Gotta feel for those guys (my ficticious Pokemon, not TPC [Razz] ), especially magneton-they resurrected him for naught but more heartache. Think we could at least get Invisible Walls and/or Rocket's Minefield Gym (name?) back? They'd have a shot again, at least.
At least Strength Charm still helkps all those Pokemon who were "10 away" from being effective at KOing the active.

[ November 01, 2002, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: Otaku ]

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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
SauroN

Member # 373



posted November 01, 2002 07:08 AM      Profile for SauroN   Email SauroN    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
HAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

*SCORE*

--------------------
The Highgrounds: One giant step for man, one giant leap for the end of humanity.

Yes! Jumpluff DOES own you!

Cursing is good for your health.

I hate it when people edit my posts ...

Number of posts edited since day 1: Lost count after 237 ...

From: Sweden | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Meganium45

Member # 99835



posted November 01, 2002 11:14 AM      Profile for Meganium45   Email Meganium45    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Yeah! All original deck ideas using bench damage just bit the dust!

Back to what we know, and are used to, Kingdra, Slowking, magcargo, and the other usual staples.

They tease us and try to give us viable options, then take them all away!

Man, I was having fun making Dugtrio and Gengar decks...

OK, back to Magcargo, Wait, look, there;s e-ninetails, let me check this out before they butcher it with a ruling...

Meganium 45 [Bored]

--------------------
"To Make a Difference, you have to be Different"

Winner and parent of 6 year old winner (Little Duck) of Colinsville SBZ!
Other son was the 9 year old winner May SBZ at Dragon King, the best place to play Pokemon in the Midwest!

NOW 3 TROPHIES!!!
THE MASTER PROFESSOR IN ST. LOUIS and TO too! Yipee!

Gotta love St. Louis 8th, 9th and 10th and the Origins Professor Championship! (I was 9th :( )

Too bad we never have room for our bench - - lol.

From: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
SauroN

Member # 373



posted November 01, 2002 11:29 AM      Profile for SauroN   Email SauroN    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
uhm...it made slowking more powerful...nothing more...oh yeah...murkrow could ko babies *OHHHHHHHH* big deal =/

--------------------
The Highgrounds: One giant step for man, one giant leap for the end of humanity.

Yes! Jumpluff DOES own you!

Cursing is good for your health.

I hate it when people edit my posts ...

Number of posts edited since day 1: Lost count after 237 ...

From: Sweden | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Meganium45

Member # 99835



posted November 01, 2002 02:28 PM      Profile for Meganium45   Email Meganium45    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Nothing more? Made Fossil Gengar a force to be reckoned with, E-dugtrio actually playable, and Dark Raichu something actually to be worried about. Also moved Murkrow up the chain, which could have weakened Slowking's lock on the game <pun intended>

Oh, yeah, it did nothing for Jumpluff, that must be it...

It actually opened some unique possibilities for decks, which have now been shut down....

Pretty sad...I'll just go back to Crobat where I belong.

For CROBAT>Jumpluff [NoNoNo]

See you on the boards, and hopefully at the next GC, SC and worlds!

Meganium 45

--------------------
"To Make a Difference, you have to be Different"

Winner and parent of 6 year old winner (Little Duck) of Colinsville SBZ!
Other son was the 9 year old winner May SBZ at Dragon King, the best place to play Pokemon in the Midwest!

NOW 3 TROPHIES!!!
THE MASTER PROFESSOR IN ST. LOUIS and TO too! Yipee!

Gotta love St. Louis 8th, 9th and 10th and the Origins Professor Championship! (I was 9th :( )

Too bad we never have room for our bench - - lol.

From: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheCrossFormatKid

Member # 87741



posted November 01, 2002 02:55 PM      Profile for TheCrossFormatKid   Email TheCrossFormatKid    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
and yosh, who in their right mind would be using kangaskhan in the first place?

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From: Hoodbridge, VA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted November 01, 2002 03:00 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I'm the wrong person to ask, CFK-I use Light Ledian. [Big Grin]

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
matthewssandslash
Member
Member # 74650



posted November 02, 2002 12:07 AM      Profile for matthewssandslash   Email matthewssandslash    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Dudes, here's all the ruling changed:

Murkrow now cannot OHKO benched babies.

That's IT. You can yak about how lethal Dark Raichu would be, but you guys know that it's all talk, because there's still a one-in-two chance of it being virtually wasted. Magneton is still a sorry excuse for a piece of crap, Dark Ursaring is still a piece of crap, and Iggly isn't that popular anyway. Pichu might have had more options, but I wouldn't have played SC with it unless there was also Murkrow in the deck. Seriously, Strength Charm adding to the bench was not some revolution for rogue decks. Get over it. And if this sounds really mean, it's 2;00 AM, and I'm tired. Good night.

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www.pojo.com/pokemon.html is the COOLEST site ANYWHERE.

And for anyone who cares, I discovered the Strength Charm misruling. You all won your STS', but I discovered the strength Charm misruling. So there.

From: Here, I think... I'm not sure though. =/ | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 02, 2002 03:05 AM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
ARGH!!!!!

New-age FTKO w/Erika's Jigglypuff: Dead
Pichu as the undying force for OH-Igglybuff-KOs in Slowking: Dead
Dark Raichu: DEAD
Brock's Golbat: DEAD

*glares evilly at SauroN*

Well, at least I can fit that 4th Cleffa and 4th Lass back into my Slowking deck now...

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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
SauroN

Member # 373



posted November 02, 2002 08:54 AM      Profile for SauroN   Email SauroN    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
uh, I dont care if strength charm (ewwwww) didnt do anything for jumpluff...

*glares at cpu*

ň_Ó

listen to matthew he now what he's talking about...

and meganium 45, I'll own you any day with jumpluff...lmk your aim.

--------------------
The Highgrounds: One giant step for man, one giant leap for the end of humanity.

Yes! Jumpluff DOES own you!

Cursing is good for your health.

I hate it when people edit my posts ...

Number of posts edited since day 1: Lost count after 237 ...

From: Sweden | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Otaku

Member # 42359



posted November 04, 2002 07:30 AM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
SauroN-since Matthew himself made it a point of indicating how rare it is for people to agree with him by including a quote of it in his old Pojo sig, I wouldn't be happy that he agree's with you. [Wink] Seriously though, you can think what you will about how it would have changed the format.

Assuming this doesn't get locked anyway (or ignored), before you post something, why mention if you have done any experimenting with some of these decks? If you have tested then great, you at least have a factual opinion, if not an actual fact. If not, then maybe its possible that you were wrong (on either side of the debate). I have tested Dark Ursaring, Dark Macargo, and LC Magneton decks. This was before Expedition though. I base my suggestions that Strength Charm would make a difference based on how many times I could have won if I had only been able to hit the bench for 30 (so many benched Babies...)

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You can reach me at Otakutron on AIM and nihon_game_otaku on Yahoo Messenger.

From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Meganium45

Member # 99835



posted November 04, 2002 08:56 AM      Profile for Meganium45   Email Meganium45    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Sauron, just giving you trouble. I actually will enjoy a good jumpluff battle one of these days ( I will e-mail you my AIM so that you can proceed to attempt ownage)

Now basically we have this level of priority for tools:

1. Focus Band
2. Gold Berry
3. Strength Charm
4. Miracle Berry (only in team)
5. Berry

Let me know if I am missing anything...nothing I can remember using.

See you on the boards.

Meganium 45

--------------------
"To Make a Difference, you have to be Different"

Winner and parent of 6 year old winner (Little Duck) of Colinsville SBZ!
Other son was the 9 year old winner May SBZ at Dragon King, the best place to play Pokemon in the Midwest!

NOW 3 TROPHIES!!!
THE MASTER PROFESSOR IN ST. LOUIS and TO too! Yipee!

Gotta love St. Louis 8th, 9th and 10th and the Origins Professor Championship! (I was 9th :( )

Too bad we never have room for our bench - - lol.

From: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
SteveP

Member # 14743


posted November 04, 2002 10:13 AM      Profile for SteveP   Email SteveP    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
A predictable overturn-ature!

Well, I certainly took advantage of the first mis-ruling as long as a could. Things are back to normal now.

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Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!

From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
LizardOTC

Member # 124



posted November 04, 2002 03:49 PM      Profile for LizardOTC      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Yep. I spent a week or so spanking babies HARD ...

...and now I'll spend another week building different decks. It WAS fun while it lasted...

--------------------
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"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC

"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19

From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
ShadowCard

Member # 2104



posted November 04, 2002 04:49 PM      Profile for ShadowCard      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
No way! where on the card can they prove the ruling right!? totally bogus.... the card should determine the ruling, not the e-reader.

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"And there came a hero who said: Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, nor the very fabric of time, but the hero would not prevail...nor would he surrender."

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LuckyCal

Member # 2435



posted November 04, 2002 05:27 PM      Profile for LuckyCal   Email LuckyCal    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Hmm... does this mean that Defender can't protect Benched Pokémon? Nor does Unown D/M/N? Nor Metal Energy? Does e-Metapod's PokéBody not work when it's on the Bench? What about Erika's Dratini?

By golly, this ruling ruins my Tyranitar deck.

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Have you seen Ajax?

From: Springfield, USA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted November 04, 2002 05:31 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Have faith...

Yes, Shadowcard, I myself argued your very arguement before this ruling came down. However, the ruling is that it is assumed for all effects that add damage to attacks, damage cannot be added to the bench. It's not just a card rule, it's a game rule, just like it's assumed benched pokemon do not have weakness and resistance applied to them. That's why it can be the way it is.

This is Pokemon, not the US Supreme Court. Not everything should be analyzed to death (of all the people to say that...).

[ November 04, 2002, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
ShadowCard

Member # 2104



posted November 04, 2002 06:40 PM      Profile for ShadowCard      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Yoshi, you are so close to right about that rule. I don't follow it because there are some pokemon that tell you to apply weakness and resistence for the bench. Some are Dark Golbat's pokemon power: sneak attack and promo 46 electabuzz's lightning bolt attack. I believe strength charm affects all damage of attacks (self damage, bench damage, and damage to the defending) and it should remain that way because the card and combos made around it aren't as broken as others that weren't fought over. Yes, while the bench is supposed to be a "safe heaven" for those defensless basics, it's also home to some big bad nastys who are waiting for the active to get KOed because of a high retreat cost.

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"And there came a hero who said: Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, nor the very fabric of time, but the hero would not prevail...nor would he surrender."

Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
SteveP

Member # 14743


posted November 04, 2002 10:28 PM      Profile for SteveP   Email SteveP    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
ShadowCard, I think most everyone agrees that Strength Charm (as it is printed), allows ALL damage to be increased. Although MTM stated the reason for the overturned ruling was because of the game rule (no increase of damage to benched Pokemon by cards such as Plus Power, Darkness Energy, etc.), IMO, I think WOTC had to back-track on this ruling because Strength Charm was not translated correctly. The original Japanese version only increased damage for attacks to the active/defending Pokemon.

So, is Strength Charm going to have an errata? Personally, I think it's way too ambiguous as currently printed. A ruling is not enough. IMO, there needs to be an errata.

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Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!

From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted November 05, 2002 05:09 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Pokémon Power: Sneak Attack When you play Dark Golbat from your hand, you may choose 1 of your opponent’s Pokémon. If you do, Dark Golbat does 10 damage to that Pokémon. (Don’t apply Weakness and Resistance.)
Note: This is incorrect text in the card oracle. It should say apply weakness and resistance.

quote:
Lightning Bolt This attack does 20 damage to any Pokémon with a Lightning Rod counter on it. Apply Weakness and Resistance.
10

As you'll notice, these cards both say to apply Weakness and Resistance. Similarly, if Strength charm had said, "(even to benched Pokemon)," we wouldn't be having this discussion, but it says nothing and the game rule fills in.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
DOMCGI

Member # 20344



posted November 06, 2002 06:15 AM      Profile for DOMCGI      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Before the Strength Charm ruling, as ShadowCard say, there are 2 attacks/power can apply weakness and resistance on bench. It is Dark Golbat's Sneak Attack and Promo 46 Electabuzz's Lightning Bolt.

I am too lazy to search the rule. I believe one of a MT say this in the chat or in this forum a while ago.

When Dark Golbat come out, I already questioning that it breaking the game rule on no weakness and resistance on bench pokemon. But I get the answer is "Play as the text written on the card".

With the new Strength Charm ruling, I believe the
ruling on Dark Golbat's Sneak Attack and Promo 46 Electabuzz's Lightning Bolt should be reviewed.

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An Old Pokemon Trading Card Game Player.

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From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted November 06, 2002 06:58 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
DOMCGI, as I stated, the cards you mentioned specifically state to apply weakness and resistance. Had Strength Charm said, "(even to benched Pokemon)" there would be no arguement since a game rule can be overriden if a card specifically mentions it. Strength Charm doesn't say anything, so the game rule takes over.

Some things are just assumed-otherwise they'd have to put every relevant piece of info on every card.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
LizardOTC

Member # 124



posted November 07, 2002 02:51 PM      Profile for LizardOTC      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by SteveP:
So, is Strength Charm going to have an errata? Personally, I think it's way too ambiguous as currently printed. A ruling is not enough. IMO, there needs to be an errata.

I agree. However, they could always fix it by including the correct wording in a new release. We would then apply the MRP (Most Recent Printing) rule.

--------------------
"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC

"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19

From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
mysterioustrainer

Member # 1049



posted November 07, 2002 10:42 PM      Profile for mysterioustrainer   Email mysterioustrainer    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Prehaps the new ruling is the best. Because the original concept of the game sees the bench as a place of safety with few attacks that break into it. The bench is meant to prepare pokemon for battle, so TPC obviously is still trying to bust up the defense for the bench.

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From: Wherever the adventure takes me! | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged


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