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Author
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Topic: Dark Vileplume-Where Did It All Go Wrong?
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bombasticlovegirl
Member # 55731
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posted October 14, 2002 04:38 PM
While I'm on the topic of highlighting cards that have seen little or no use in my eyes, I found one card that again, had something special that was supposed to turn the game upside down, but instead doomed it to a place in common boxes everywhere.
When Team Rocket was released two or three years ago (give or take), the cards in the set were seen as mediocre at best by critics but some cards were forseen as game changing cards for the game. Dark Dragonair let you search for evolutions every turn, Rainbow Energy was and still is a hot non-basic energy that will never leave the tourney scene, Dark Raichu was the mysterious extra card that few thought to have existed and there was one more that everybody thought would drop jaws and make children cry faster than "All Dogs Go To Heaven." Dark Vileplume, with it's Hay Fever power that shuts down all trainers for the game as long as it's in play. Later on, with the addition of more cards to support the Dark pokemon (i.e. Boss' Way, Rocket's Hideout) the card should have still been revelling in the spotlight it was created for.
With a card with such potential to shut down decks everywhere one would think this card would see maximum gameplay, almost a new archetype to be formed if you will. Yet remarkably, the card hardly saw play and even when it did the trend didn't last. I decided to try this deck out to see if I loved it like I loved all the other Vileplumes out now (yes, even Jungle Plume) and the deck worked amazing with Snorlax and Dark Gloom, I made almost a perfect stall deck and faced little opposition.
So why is it a card with such hope for the future didn't even get off the ground and is the target of constant naysayers in the Pokemon world? Let me know what you think, if you think the card is still good and you enjoy it, shout it out. If you believe the card didn't deserve the buzz that it got and you know why it went down fast, then make your plea. Either way, let's toss this one to the debate table... ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif) BLG
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Archetypes suck and will be destroyed, those of you not bright enough to make your own decks don't deserve your victories and aren't worthy of my admiration or respect...anyone else of course with neurons to build their own deck can be my friend and partner in crime. Hahaha :)
From: South Milwaukee, Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2002
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KYDAD
Member # 30575
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posted October 14, 2002 04:49 PM
Dark Vileplume did indeed have great potential, but that potential was destroyed, in my opinion, by the Neo Genesis Igglybuff.
With Iggly coming along, Vileplume was suddenly a threat to only the person playing it. Your opponent can turn it off with an Iggly, but you can't turn it off on your turn. That leaves your opponent playing trainers at will and your own pokemon stopping you from playing them. ![[Frown]](../tcg/frown.gif)
[edit: Actually Igglybuff was a Neo Discovery invention]
[ October 14, 2002, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: KYDAD ]
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Kentucky Dad
From: Crestwood, KY, US | Registered: Jul 2001
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted October 14, 2002 04:53 PM
I beg to differ.
It is an acrhetype. A very powerful POKEMON in the right hands & combo:
sic-powers & occult powers.
It's power was well documented.
BUT not until GENESIS was released was its FULL potential revealed:
sneasal/murkrow + D.Vile: EVIL deck.
It was PLAYED a lot around here... WON a few tourneys ALWAYS topped8.
MUK is a VERY tough match-up to beat NOT impossible BUT it must me played WITH no error.
BUT in our eyes ONE pokemon caused its doom:
not Muk, NOT magby, NOT pichu.
Iggly.
BUT when iggly's aren't around... DVile will show up every now and then.
[ October 14, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: IPGeek21 ]
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SHUT UP & DO something about it
From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 14, 2002 04:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KYDAD:
Dark Vileplume did indeed have great potential, but that potential was destroyed, in my opinion, by the Neo Genesis Igglybuff.
With Iggly coming along, Vileplume was suddenly a threat to only the person playing it. Your opponent can turn it off with an Iggly, but you can't turn it off on your turn. That leaves your opponent playing trainers at will and your own pokemon stopping you from playing them.
But smart players got around N2 Iggly. By playing fewer trainers and some tricky maneuvering, you could keep one more D. Vileplume in play than your oponent had igglybuffs.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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ShadowCard
Member # 2104
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posted October 14, 2002 07:12 PM
ah yes, i remember the days of opening the Rocket packs when they came out. I thought of them as poor cards. Poor hp, attacks that usually required flips or some other form of attempt, and lack of support. Only Dark Raichu and Dark Dragonair had the most potential at the time. Now, Dark pokemon lead my best deck (which is neo modified). Dark vileplume fits all of the descriptions above and i believe that's why it isn't played. To even think back, I never saw too many people playing it because of its poor hp for a stage 2 and its attack requires flips. Plus, it losses trainer support without potions and berries. I think their were just better decks to play. Even with hideout backing it, i people prefer slowking because you can play trainers while your opponent has to risk it.
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"And there came a hero who said: Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, nor the very fabric of time, but the hero would not prevail...nor would he surrender."
Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 14, 2002 08:07 PM
Slowking also takes up a significant part of the bench (regardless of what your opponent plays), has a higher retreat cost, and only comes in a single weakness flavor. It also requires a lot more work on your part.
Of course, that's a discussion for yesteryear.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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mercad
Member
Member # 22435
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posted October 14, 2002 09:09 PM
problem is that dk vileplume doesnt allow u to play trainers (which can be gotten around) so on yoshi's response slowking makes it so they can barely play trainers and you can play all you want... but best standard deck for me right now is fable/scyther/muk but thats just my opinion... BTW sneasel is 60 HP and i like to delibird him
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From: Rancho Cucamunga, California, United States | Registered: May 2001
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Dark and Vile
Member # 74653
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posted October 15, 2002 04:34 AM
Dark Vileplume + Erika's Victreebel + Murkrow
equals one NASTY deck.
Use very few trainers (Erika and Elms), throw in a couple of Cleffas and you're in business.
From: Melbourne, FL | Registered: Apr 2002
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted October 15, 2002 06:55 AM
Wha? The Black Rose didn't see much play in your area, BLG? How odd. One of the few decks I made that was able to beat some of the local l337 was my Dark Vileplume deck, and that was when I was such a n00b that I didn't even realize the key to Dark Vileplumes success: Dark Gloom. Get a Dark 'Plume into play, make it active, then use Dark Gloom's Pokemon Power to confuse yourself. Now you can play Trainers. At the end of your turn, play something to bench D.PLume (or retreat) and end the confusion, now the powers back on. Attack, then watch them squirm. I have made three potent decks with it (now all Unlimited versions). Note, many of these decks likely already existed (the one BLG mentioned is known as Turbo Snorlax and has been around since Team Rocket was released). I run a Lockdown deck-Aerodactyl and Dark Vileplume along with NG Murkrow. I also TecHed in a Promo Smeargle or 2 incase they didn't have a suitable "lockee". It generally either won decisively or or lost, but I was running it too Pokemon heavy at the time. I also had a Clefable/Ditto deck that Dark PLume was just as wonderful in. Let them begin their set-up: they get some nice Pokemon into play, then I copy theme or their attacks while denying their Trainer Support. Finally, their is Turbo Snorlax. I didn't invent it, but I do love it. I have actually beaten Midgame decks with it, and how! But I must go now. BAsically, I guess I just wanted to emphasize, Dark Plume is much more active than poeple realize, it just hasn't been over-played yet, like some others... *coughsneaselcough* ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif)
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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
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ukpokemonpro
Member # 518
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posted October 15, 2002 09:53 AM
Not Played I remember Steve Yau came and whupped us good with hayfeaver
4x tr oddish
3x d.gloom
2x d.vileplume
4x tr drowzee
4x snorlax
4x misty's wrath
4x good manners
4x erika
4x boss's way
3x imposter prof oaks revenge
2x gust of wind
14x grass energy
4x potion energy
4x double colorless
But then came Pichu and Iggly and uncle tom Gatr and all ..
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From: Gillingham, Kent, UK | Registered: Feb 2001
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Noah Weiss
Member # 59265
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posted October 15, 2002 04:14 PM
Or, if for some reason you've got Rocket Hideout and want to attack with Dark Vileplume, you should use Miracle Berry, or even Flash Touch (Light Ledian's attack). That also works well with other self-Confusers or self-Special-Condition'ers.
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From: Lincoln, NE | Registered: Jan 2002
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bombasticlovegirl
Member # 55731
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posted October 15, 2002 07:41 PM
It was interesting to see the responses from people on here, most of you agreeing that Dark Plume was something to be used in the gaming arena. I had a feeling alot of you would place the downfall of D.V. on Iggly and other Power removing babies but again, if you plan for them well it shouldn't be a problem. I actually ran this deck with Snorlax and would make sure I had Plume by turn 2. As long as I had at least one Cleffa powered up I could still go through my deck and power up...as could they but usually I'd keep one Dark Gloom always on the bench to confuse till I could power up Snorlax the main attacker. That way with Snorlax I'm never confused and I can power up the Plumes if I need to attack with them. Also with Iggly, it only works if Plume is on the bench and people using Gusts like no tomorrow they Gust it up not realizing that it reactivates the power. I am glad to see though that most of you did like this card so keep the responses coming people. BLG
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Archetypes suck and will be destroyed, those of you not bright enough to make your own decks don't deserve your victories and aren't worthy of my admiration or respect...anyone else of course with neurons to build their own deck can be my friend and partner in crime. Hahaha :)
From: South Milwaukee, Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2002
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briman203
Member
Member # 108567
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posted October 16, 2002 09:26 AM
dark vileplume can make a good combo with dark primeape
From: 604 Glen Park Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Pokenaut
Member # 189
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posted October 16, 2002 10:36 AM
I cannot speak for everyone else's metagame nor can I speak for everyone's preference as far as format, but I can easily say why and when it finally ended for Dark Plume here in N.E. Ohio.
There really aren't that many locations to play in my neck of the woods. The number of Leagues where a competitive-minded player can go for sanctioned play's pretty limited in the Cleveland area. There are however quite a few players left who had their eye on the various challenges and were focused on winning titles and free trips and such. At the location where I TO, we catered to them early-on by running nearly ALL modified format sanctioned play. These same players (for the most part) had been in the game from the get go and were themselves pretty bored and tired with the deck-contsructs and play style brought on by higher-level Unlimited, and were (and it seems still are) happy with staying with mf. Before this last Sept. 1st, I'd say Igglys were the most prevelant anti-D.Plume weapon, as they also could be used against the Slowking variants well (used to work well against Chain reaction Eevee too).
Perhaps if enough people actually ask and show interest, an Unlimited tournament could be fit into the schedule. (jeeze...did I say that?? ![[Dropjaw]](../tcg/graemlins/dropjaw.gif) ) There's nothing like the sweet sweet smell of the trainer block in a winning unlimited deck. It would be cool though to see if from out of the blue and after all these months playing mf if enough people remember to actually tech those Igglys. Muk's a regular even now in the current mf format. Maybe a surprise Unlimited tournament-deck with D.Plume would do well here. The following week, it would be stopped. Perhaps that's the secret, to go from one format to the next without more than a week's warning. Would be fun, but once (if) the new Challenge schedule is released, they're gonna want mf again.
'Naut
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From: Shaker Heights, Ohio USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
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posted October 16, 2002 10:48 AM
Pokenaut, you now have my attention. ![[Razz]](../tcg/tongue.gif)
Ever since Discovery came out I've gone into the regular practice of putting 2 Igglybuff into every Wiggly deck I end up making in case Slowking should rear its ugly head but then again proved to be useful vs. Dark Plume. At the League I attend one player played Dark Plume and did very well with it. Our match was close until I got an Iggly down (let the Removals begin!)
I have, however, previously thought of the Light Ledian/Dark Plume thing -- in that case, the only thing that could shut off the Dark Plume is either E. Victreebel (and who plays THAT in Unl.?) or Magby (and if everyone's playing Iggly, who's gonna play Magby?)
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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.
Viva la unoriginality!
From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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DOMCGI
Member # 20344
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posted October 17, 2002 10:22 AM
I believe the reason of little play of Dark Vilplumes is the time.
When Dark Vileplume first issue, the game is still Haymaker dominate. If you want to bring out the dark Vileplume faster than Haymaker, you will have to have many trainer which is contradicting the idea of the Dark Vileplume. Bring to Active and confuse itself will cost a lot of energy, especially playing with Snorlax.
I do Play Dark Vileplume,Snorlax,TR Drowzee desk right after TR release. Once it is set up (1 to 2 Dark Vileplum, 2 to 3 Dark Gloom and/or TR Drowzee, 2 Snorlax), it is close to unbeatable at that time. But to set up those 5 to 6 pokemons before Haymaker power up is a challenge. If you bring out the Dark Vileplume too early, you will be difficult to set up those support pokemons because you also can't play trainer
When the Modified format out, the Slowking show up shortly and work better than Dark Vileplume.
Now, we have one Igglpuff which make the Dark Vileplume pretty useless.
Dark Vileplume is a good card but be issue in the wrong time.
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An Old Pokemon Trading Card Game Player.
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From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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