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Topic: Is there a limit to the number of cards you can draw from mulligans?
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Thunderh@wk
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Member # 108828
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posted October 07, 2002 02:42 AM
Or not?
From: Nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002
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jameschu
Member
Member # 20312
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posted October 07, 2002 02:49 AM
of course not. ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif)
Edited: Please do not reply like that, even in a joking manner
[ October 07, 2002, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: BJJ763 ]
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crab. hippo. rabbit. what? you dont understand? too bad.
From: mud hole | Registered: May 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 07, 2002 05:22 AM
0, 1, or 2 for each your opponent incurs.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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BJJ763
Member # 158
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posted October 07, 2002 05:52 AM
This question is more suited in the Single Card Strategies and Rulings forum. Moving it there... ![[Tap]](../tcg/graemlins/tap.gif)
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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted October 07, 2002 06:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by yoshi1001:
0, 1, or 2 for each your opponent incurs.
He means is there a limit to the number of mulligans, not how many to draw per mulligan...
No. There is no limit.
However, there are two points to be aware of:
1. You don't have to draw if you don't want to. No one can force you to deck yourself by continually Mulligan'ing
2. If it causes a real delay of game (like 6 or more mulligans!) or if you suspect that the player doesn't have any basic pokemon in his deck, you can ask a Judge to check the deck and see if the player needs to be penalized for delay of game or disqualified for not being able to start the game.
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Registered: Feb 2001
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Wai-Lam
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Member # 99788
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posted October 07, 2002 10:58 AM
quote:
2. If it causes a real delay of game (like 6 or more mulligans!) or if you suspect that the player doesn't have any basic pokemon in his deck, you can ask a Judge to check the deck and see if the player needs to be penalized for delay of game or disqualified for not being able to start the game.
Can you actually be penalized for having bad luck?! Sounds like double bad luck to me. It did happen to me once. I had to take 6 mulls before I could start. And I was playing 11 Basics! Luckily, that wasn't during a tournament. ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
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From: Rotterdam, Holland | Registered: Aug 2002
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 07, 2002 11:04 AM
Eventually it just falls to the judge to decide what the players intentions are.
[ October 07, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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DMTM
Member # 10
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posted October 07, 2002 11:45 AM
It does not depend on the number of basics in your deck.
It depends more on whether the judge believes your are intentionally stalling or not based on how slow you might be going.
You gain no advantage from trying to intentionally mulligan and the number of basics in your deck has no bearing on whether you are trying to do it in any case.
As long as you are shuffling and moving in a timely manner the fact that you are not getting basics is to your disadvantage. It does not matter how many basics are in your deck.
This is a very unlikely scenario.
DMTM
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Frodo_Baggins - "Like the guy said "Get out of the box""
From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Pokidad
Member # 135
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posted October 07, 2002 01:35 PM
Oh, the Dark One (DMTM), a "very unlikely scenario." How quickly we forget that there is a couple of fun decks that have only a few Pokes in them (one a Psychic and one a Fire) where the player will mulligan many times before getting a Basic Pokemon to begin the game. Does anyone remembers these fun decks?
Also per DCI Floor rules:
quote:
23. Pregame Time Limit
Before each game, competitors have three minutes to shuffle their decks and present them to their opponents for additional shuffling and/or cutting. This three-minute period includes sideboarding, if applicable, but does not include shuffling an opponent’s deck or resolving any mulligans — if the DCI Floor Rules for the game in question specifically allow mulligans. Any mulligans or shuffling of opponents’ decks must be done in a timely manner before games begin. Shuffling requirements specified in section 21 apply during these steps.
If a player is subject to a deck check, that player will be given an amount of extra time equal to the time that the check took plus three minutes.
So, unless Intentional Stalling is determine, sit back and wait. Note, even though a deck has no Pokemon in the deck, the Judge may determine that the player came with a deck to intentionally stall his opponents or not play any games, abuse of the mulligan rule. I remember somewhere a long time ago that this player would receive a game loss for this behavior. Does anyone else remembers this discussion?
From: Falls Church, VA USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Wai-Lam
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Member # 99788
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posted October 07, 2002 01:47 PM
Hmm... this is a strategy worth thinking about.
Let's say you have rounds of 20 minutes each. Every mulligan can easily take a minute or two. If you only have one Basic in your deck, the odds of having a Basic in a hand of 7 cards is about 12%. So you're expected to need 9 turns to have a Basic in your starting hand. That would be about 18 minutes, leaving 2 minutes to play.
All you have to do is play a strong Basic that isn't likely to be knocked out fast and do major damage (hmm... Zapdos?) which will get you a prize. Time will run out and you will have drawn one prize, whereas your opponent has none which will make you the winner (if I'm not mistaken about the "most prizes taken wins"-rule).
Sounds cool to me!
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From: Rotterdam, Holland | Registered: Aug 2002
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DMTM
Member # 10
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posted October 07, 2002 02:01 PM
True enough about the no Pokémon in the deck Dad.
Still an unlikely scenario. If the player decides to play a deck of this kind, it will backfire on them. It just isn't worth it.
A judge can determine if this behavior is indicative of stalling on purpose regardless of how many Pokémon are in the deck. I have seen thousands of games and never seen this...so yes a very unlikely scenario.
You would have to be very foolish indeed to try it. So there will be lots of them?
![[Evil Smirk]](../tcg/graemlins/Up_to.gif)
Er...while your getting everything ready on thart big old Zapdos and have nothing else on your bench I have lots of cards in my hand and probably enough to knock you out on turn two or three max. Not going to work in that particular scenario.
DMTM
[ October 07, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: DMTM ]
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Frodo_Baggins - "Like the guy said "Get out of the box""
From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted October 07, 2002 02:05 PM
Yes, my point was if the judge found an incredibly small number of basics such that the player was trying to abuse the Mulligan rule.
I would not issue a penalty after 6 Mulligans, but I would then watch and if the time kept ticking away...
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted October 07, 2002 09:55 PM
Quote from yoshi:
quote:
0, 1, or 2 for each your opponent incurs.
To further clarify, if you choose to draw 0 or 1 card for your opponent's mulligan, you must specify before you begin drawing. The default is to draw two cards (I assume), so you probably don't need to state "I'll draw two cards." You can't draw 1 card (if you've not said how many you'll draw), then decide you don't want to draw the second card. FYI, here's the ruling from Team Compendium:
quote:
Q. At the start of a game, if your Opponent Mulligans, do you have to say how many cards you intend to draw? In other words, could you draw one and then decide to stop?
A. Yes, you need to state: "I am drawing one card", or "I am drawing 2 cards". [Ed.Note: or "I choose not to draw any cards".] (Oct 11, 2001 WotC Chat, Q18)
But, back to the original question. There's no limit.
[ October 07, 2002, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: SteveP ]
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From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kooper
Member # 555
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posted October 10, 2002 03:21 PM
This is an extremely unlikely scenario and will probably happen but what if...
You keep Mulliganing and your opponent draws every card in their deck? Would they win because they cannot put down prizes?
You don't really have to answer this and I know this will never happen but I thought is was interesting question ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif)
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From: Bloomington, CA, US | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 10, 2002 06:53 PM
Oh, but I will answer it. They would lose because any time you cannot place a prize when you are required to you have basically decked yourself.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Psychic_Prof
Member # 96987
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posted October 10, 2002 07:18 PM
I built such a deck one time. I would mulligan 12 to 13 times. It consisted of Balloon berries...Mysterious Fossils, Fossil Eggs, Item Finder, Energy Search, Gen Lugia and perhaps the most annoying card in the game...Fossil AeroDactyl.
I lost horribly once they caught on...but it was fun to watch their face turn red :-p
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From: Redwood City Gym, Eureka, CA | Registered: Jul 2002
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mercad
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Member # 22435
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posted October 11, 2002 09:40 PM
wheres my dunsparce/delibird? <---- best basics in the world
im thinking about that deck now hmmmm
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From: Rancho Cucamunga, California, United States | Registered: May 2001
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