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Author Topic: Darkness Energy
Rocket's Sandshrew

Member # 56166



posted September 08, 2002 09:45 AM      Profile for Rocket's Sandshrew   Email Rocket's Sandshrew    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Why does everybody seem to want dark energy to be erratta'ed/MRP'ed? I think this would be a terrible thing.

Murkrow (who is allready HORRIBLY overplayed and is the death of most non-espy psy decks) would be able to pick off benched babies in one hit and on turn 2.

Umbreon would become insane, doing 50-70 to a benched poke...that's just not right...and IMO it would add to the snowball effect that is already a huge problem in this game. You wouldn't be able to bench 90% of the evolving MF basics without them getting picked off before they could evolve, thus making a comeback nearly impossible.

Dark Ursaring/Unown N could become an archetype with a dark attached and the MRP in place.

All I've heard since the translation's been posted has been "I hope dark energy gets changed." and I disagree...sue me.

[ September 08, 2002, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Rocket's Sandshrew ]

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From: Dancing on NG Gatr's Grave... | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
NoPoke

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posted September 08, 2002 10:17 AM      Profile for NoPoke   Email NoPoke    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well, some are looking forward to the new Darkness wording from the 15th and some are dreading it.

Those looking forward to the change see the positive impact on improving the performance of a few decks.

Those who are dreading it think that the new wording will reduce the variety of decks that are competative.

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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Baboon

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posted September 08, 2002 10:39 AM      Profile for Baboon   Email Baboon    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Believe me. I've used Umbreon decks, and they already shred most things that come into contact with them. Just the ability to Knock a Baby Out without the flip is really good. Now, since most decks have a minimum of 2 Darknesses attached to an Umbreon, you'd be dealing 50 damage. This is broken... times 2. No Pokemon should be able to deal 50 damage to a Benched Pokemon, beings that the Bench is the supposedly somewhat 'safe zone'. I know that if Expedition Darkness Energy isn't reverted to the Genesis version's wording, the game will suffer tremendously. Darkness Energy was ALREADY very over-used when Genesis was released, as many of us remember.

Let's have a miniature timeline here...
  • January 1999, Base set released. PlusPower was in Base. Nearly EVERY deck ran 4 PlusPowers. Mistake.
  • Early 2000, Base set 2 released. What a surprise...PlusPower was in B2... >_<
  • December 2001, Neo Genesis released. Darkness Energy horribly overused. (and then, people had the genius idea to ALSO use PlusPowers (in Standard)).
  • Fall 2002, Expedition being released. Need I continue...?
This new Darkness is more powerful than PLUSPOWERS!!! And +Powers were very annoying.
I'm not trying to come off as a pessimist on this, but it will be a horrendous mistake to keep the Expedition Darknesses as they are. It will become EXTREMELY broken.

psst...Isn't the goal of Modified to keep it balanced...?

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From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Psychic_Prof

Member # 96987



posted September 08, 2002 03:10 PM      Profile for Psychic_Prof   Email Psychic_Prof    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Whaaaa....Whaaaa....sombody call the Whhhhambulance.

Why are you guys complaining so much. Just use smoochum, Ligth Dragonite, etc.

There are cards that combat other cards (teching I beleive they call it...ahem...yes)

So there are powerful cards...deal with it. Use them if you like. But really...what is complaining about it gonna do?

It's perfectly clear that WotC thinks it has a better idea of what you want than you do.

I'm sick of everyone on these boards complaining about EVERYTHING.

Yes, Pluspowers are annoying...as are Darkness energies...So? That's why people play Slowking and why I always carry around a Smoochum or two.

[ September 08, 2002, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Psychic_Prof ]

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From: Redwood City Gym, Eureka, CA | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
TeamRocket-4-Life

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posted September 08, 2002 04:37 PM      Profile for TeamRocket-4-Life   Email TeamRocket-4-Life    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
However, Smoochum can be easily wasted by the new D. Energy. Espescially since Psykiss requires a flip to work.

I guess if you don't like the new wording, hope they declare it a misprint.

If you like the new wording, then hope it will be left alone.

Other than that, just wait til Sept. 15

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From: Novi, Michigan | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Porygone3
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posted September 08, 2002 05:38 PM      Profile for Porygone3      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
ok, If the dark does +10 to the bench as well, I had read the old one that way at one point and dark Arbok with 4 D on it was just evil. Trample is going to be insain. And rectroactive rullings again will be a hardship for Gym leaders (or whatever the new name is going to be) to explain...
IMO.

Not that I have a problem with the new wording.

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From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
LizardOTC

Member # 124



posted September 08, 2002 05:50 PM      Profile for LizardOTC      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well, it seems clear to me that the new wording on Darkness Energy would throw some serious imbalances into the game.

Benchwrecking would become the strategy of choice, and there are many MF Pokémon with bench-hitting attacks. In addition to T-Tar, Murkrow and Umbreon, we have the "Dark" versions of cards like Raichu, Espeon, Ursaring, etc., etc... Even Kingdra with a Darkness and a Goldberry would be nasty...  -

This would be very bad news, as mentioned above, because without the new wording you could build a decent second string on your bench. WITH the new wording, recovery is goung to be much harder.  -

There is still hope. Toward the end of last week's chat the MT's gave an indication that they may realize that the change in the wording on Darkness is a BIG MISTAKE:

quote:
master_trainer_pat presents the speaker with question #227 from bigchuck001:Ok, just to clarify because I wasnt sure on your response, would a Murkrow with a Darkness Energy and a Recycle Energy do 30 damage to a benched Pokemon when Expedition comes out?
master_trainer_pat says, "We're going to also clarify that with the rules team. Maybe that was a misprint and we'll have to play it like it's always been played."

Here's hoping...  -

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From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted September 08, 2002 05:54 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
The text being all askew from normal conventions for the cards seemed to tell me that someone screwed up. I'm curious, has anyone actually tested the card as if it were written the new way?

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Porygone3
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posted September 08, 2002 08:13 PM      Profile for Porygone3      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
yes I played as if that was as it was writen that way when dark first came out (we didnt notice the defending pokemon part at the time) Dark Arbock and Brock's Golbat smacked hard... and won like every tourment before we noticed our error and fixed it.
so yah... its gonna be messed up but it may be good and I've always been a "play as writen" kinda person.

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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.

"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."

"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"

From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted September 08, 2002 08:26 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I must say, this does cross the line from "not good but we can deal with it" to "basically saps the fun out of the game." At least, it threatens to go there. Also, unlike Slowking etc., there will likely always be bench-damaging Pokemon. I want to see more data, though.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Oo-Prof esPy-oO

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posted September 10, 2002 06:38 PM      Profile for Oo-Prof esPy-oO      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
OMG! Tyranitar has the potential to OHKO all of your opponents pokes if this goes through

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From: PA | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

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posted September 11, 2002 09:13 AM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I've playtested both Unlimited and MMF with the new Darkness energy rule.

MMF -- Murkrows with Focus Bands were BROKEN. If you stick something out there that has a retreat, your opponent can NOT drop a Cleffa and Eeeeeeek AT ALL barring Switch/Double Gust, etc. Unless you have the privelege of playing a 50 HP basic for your evolution chain you might as well resign =/

Unlimited -- At the beginning of Slowking/Sneasel, people played 3 Sneasel, 2 Krow. Some people switch over to 4/1. This is enough to make people play 2 Murkrow again, maybe even 3, using it as a main attacker. Lock someone in place, keep 'em energyless, and pick off Cleffas. To one-shot an opposing IGGLYBUFF means one more flip you get back to stop Trainer usage. Godly.

I for one hope that the new Darkness energy is NOT errata'd. Umbreon/Murkrow/King decks...SWEEEEET....

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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
BronzeGrowlithe

Member # 66394



posted September 11, 2002 10:29 AM      Profile for BronzeGrowlithe   Email BronzeGrowlithe    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I was actually worried about Pichu. 30 damage to everything with a power. Bye Iggly, bye Elekid. No showings for you. Tyranitar would be incredibly dangerous, too...

If this rule does go through, I WILL bust out with Light Dragonite or Light Golduck. (if I can find a way to make it work =/) I hope it doesn't, though, for the sake of balance and common sense...

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From: Indianapolis, IN | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted September 11, 2002 11:34 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
As CPU has so generously pointed out (you gotta stop being your own worst advocate, buddy [Wink] ) There is substatial potential for a significant and undesireable narrowing of the gameplay environment. Bench damage is okay when limited to small amounts, but quickly becomes absurd under the new text.

BG: IM me later if you want help with a Light Golduck deck. [Big Grin]

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
BigChuck01

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posted September 11, 2002 04:18 PM      Profile for BigChuck01   Email BigChuck01    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
The new Dark ruling CANT stick. It messes up the game a lot. I think Wizards was trying to limit baby Pokemon, but they overdid it.

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John Kulp
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posted September 11, 2002 05:54 PM      Profile for John Kulp   Email John Kulp    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I share Psychic Prof's feelings pretty much down to a T. Are the addition of a few words really THAT important? It's the SAME card as the Neo Gen. So what? I'm going to tear down all my card shops and waste my resourses and my time just so I can hit the opponent's bench with a extra ten? Please. Personally I find the Neo Gen card to be quite adaquate. As the illustrious CPUWhatever has pointed out the advantages as well as the disadvantages of the wording. For those who like overkill(You know who you are)rejoice. For the rest of us we'll treat it like any other card.

Edited - It's not nice to be rude to other board members, please refrain from using that sentence again.

[ September 11, 2002, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: John Kulp ]

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From: Pittsburgh,PA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Johnny Blaze

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posted September 11, 2002 09:24 PM      Profile for Johnny Blaze   Email Johnny Blaze    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Runs to go re-build my old Hunter deck. It will be interesting to see what happens. [Devilish]

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From: Clifton Park, N.Y. | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Drakeo

Member # 25453



posted September 12, 2002 12:58 PM      Profile for Drakeo   Email Drakeo    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I don't think it will narrow the playing field. Only the playing field of the Narrow-Minded. Yoshi's Lt. Golduck just got MEAN. I've found some of my favorite decks handle murky fairly well. Dark Crobat with the new Dk. is BROKEN too [Smile]
There are 2 things to keep in mind though:
1. You have to actually GET all the darks out.
2. You pile them onto one big hitter. Once he's dead, you can kiss the Dark goodbye.

Pichu and others will still be very boosted, but this 70 damage Umby thing is kinda an exaggeration of the truth...
I look forward to seeing what happens.
*Prepares to take down many Murkrows with his super-quick Jumpluff Swarm* w00t!

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From: Albuquerque, New Mexico | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
KYDAD

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posted September 12, 2002 01:07 PM      Profile for KYDAD   Email KYDAD    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Another thing to remember with Murkrow....

Another change to the MF environment is the reintroduction of Switch. That gives a good way out of a Murkrow Lock while leaving Murkrow exposed to the attack damage. DG and Warp Point break the Mean Look, but they allow Murkrow to get back to the bench. Leaving a 50 HP guy exposed is not good for his longevity.

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From: Crestwood, KY, US | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
LizardOTC

Member # 124



posted September 12, 2002 04:47 PM      Profile for LizardOTC      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Fortunately (from my own POV), Expedition Darkness Energy has been errata'd!

quote:
master_trainer_mike says, "The text on Darkness energy in the Expedition set is in error, please continue to play the card as written in the Neo Genesis text."

master_trainer_mike says, "Wizards of the Coast will reissue the Darkness energy with corrected text (same as the Nere Genesis version) in the upcoming Aquapolis release."
master_trainer_pat says, "we just play Darkness Energy exactly how we've always played it?"
master_trainer_mike says, "Thats the fact Jack!"

Had this not done, I think the (incorrect) wording would have resulted in serious game imbalances...

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From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Articjedi

Member # 342



posted September 12, 2002 06:39 PM      Profile for Articjedi   Email Articjedi    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I would have to agree with LOTC. There would be too much power for murkrow. It would be even worse for every deck to have a tyranitar that wipes out the bench and the active in one attack.

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From: Seattle, Washington | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted September 12, 2002 07:06 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Ah, yes. Good to know I'll be playing a Lt. Ledian/Lt. Golduck deck for the time being instead of a Lt. Golduck/Lt. Ledian deck.

As I said, the formatting on the card really made it look like a misprint anyway.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged


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