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Author Topic: New Slowking and new Chaos ruling -- major impact!
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 22, 2002 11:09 AM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Recently, I've noticed the last two Prof. e-mails concerning paying costs of Trainers before effects can cancel them:

Hi Juan,

After going through the complete Japanese rules for Pokemon and talking with the Rules team, it is ruled that you emust still pay the cost of Trainers WHEN you announce them (play them), then the Trainer may be stopped (by affects such as Mind Games or Chaos Gym).

Here is the rules for playing Trainers (taken from the Japanese rules and clarified):

* Use a Trainer Card
If you have a Trainer card in your hand, you may play it during your turn. Unless otherwise stated on the card, all Trainer cards are "one-shot" effects. After they are used, they are put into your discard pile.
Before playing a Trainer card, read it carefully. Some Trainer cards require that special conditions be met before they can be played. If the conditions described on the card are not met, you cannot play that card.
Example: Computer Search requires you to discard two other cards from your hand to order to use it. If you cannot discard two other cards, you cannot play Computer Search. (Computer Search reads: " Discard 2 of the other cards from your hand in order to search your deck for any card and put it into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward.")

When you want to play a Trainer card, follow these steps in order:

1) Take the Trainer card from your hand and show it to your opponent.
2) Tell your opponent the name of the Trainer card you are playing.
3) Perform any actions the Trainer card requires you to take in order to play it.
4) If necessary, apply any effects that might alter or cancel the Trainer.
5) Follow the instructions on the card in order as written.

So, as you can see in their rules, they consider the discarding 2 cards for Computer Search (and the same would be said for Item Finder, Super Energy Removal, and so on) to be part of the required conditions to play these cards (COSTS). They do not differentiate between costs and part of the effects of the cards.

Hope that helps.

MTM

------------------
>Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:05:42 -0800

>Subject: FW: Various Questions
>
>Hi Anthony,
>
>Answers below:
>
>-----Original Message-----
&
>Posted At: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:01 AM
>Conversation: Various Questions
>Subject: Various Questions
>
>>Question 3: Going with the recent ruling on No Removal Gym and =
>Slowking, if my opponent plays a Computer Search, Super Energy Removal, =
>Item Finder, or any other trainer card that requires you to discard =
>something to use its effects, must he/she discard those cards before =
>they flip a coin for my Slowking?
>
>The rules aren't completely clear on this point so it will go to the =
>rules committee. At this point, I would say you DO have to pay the cost =
>of playing these cards when you play them BEFORE Slowking or Chaos Gym =
>can alter or prevent them. BUT like I said, we will make sure this is =
>correct.

Please PLEASE re-consider...

No Removal Gym & Slowking... No Removal Gym requires the CARDS to be
discarded to PLAY the ER or SER.

CPU & Item finder have a COST associated with the effect NOT the
process of playing the card.
(Both lack the text 'discard 2 cards to PLAY ')

TOO many slowking players (or too many players who HAVE to play
against them) in my area that they may have a fit.

Must be the jet-lag... [Wink]

THANKS MTM for your HARD work & patience!!!

jmg

-----------------------------------------------

Hi Michael,

Yes, we are absolutely sure that you must make pay applicable "playing costs" for Trainers before you check to see if they are altered or canceled.

If you discard 2 cards to play Computer Search with a Chaos Gym in play, then flip tails, now your opponent has the chance to play Computer Search. In order for them to play Computer Search they must discard 2 cards from their hand. The "playing costs" are paid by the person playing the Trainer. If the Trainer is canceled then another player tries to play it, they must pay the "playing cost" to play that Trainer.

MTM

-----Original Message-----
Posted At: Thursday, November 21, 2002 2:01 PM
Conversation: FW: POKEPROFESSOR-L Digest - 5 Nov 2002 to 12 Nov 2002 (#2002-86)
Subject: Re: FW: POKEPROFESSOR-L Digest - 5 Nov 2002 to 12 Nov 2002 (#2002-86)

Two questions in response to the last reply:

1. Are we ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY sure as of right now, that you must make any applicable discards (for CPU Search/Item Finder/Super Energy Removal) before Slowking/Chaos Gym trigger?

2. If so, and someone plays a card with a cost (CPU/Item Finder) against Chaos Gym and gets Tails, is the cost already paid for for the other person or would they have to discard two cards in order to play the card as well?

~Michael Lucas
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

I think Slowking just gained a heck of a lot more powerful.

The main reason for this post is to get it out in the open, to verify -- a lot of people won't know this ruling as of yet (don't even think it's hit Compendium yet) -- and they'll need a written source outside of the e-mail.

Edited: removed various emails, especially the Prof's email as that's not public....

[ November 22, 2002, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: WizPog_BJJ ]

--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted November 22, 2002 11:50 AM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
WOO HOO!!!!

My bro and I just shake our HEAD... ARE YOU SURE?
[Bounce]

Can you tell WHAT DECK we love to play??
OR what STADIUM I love?

You have it wrong... MUK became stronger and the GYM WAR has been declared!!

--------------------
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-=-=-=-=-=-
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SHUT UP & DO something about it

From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
PokePop

Member # 8



posted November 22, 2002 12:24 PM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Ugg!

I really don't like this!
Discarding 4 cards total in using a Computer Search?

Blech :/

--------------------
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The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net

Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 22, 2002 02:10 PM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
It's not so much the issue of two cards for CPU/IF (even though that is an issue), but the fact that without that precious Muk, SER, to even ATTEMPT, would cost two cards (NR Gym) and an energy attached.

This is why I think it's messed up.

--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted November 22, 2002 03:53 PM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
FlippyMon...
TrainerMon...

Something must give [Wink]

--------------------
Drafts bring out the BEST of the WORST cards in Pokemon
*TC Member/WizpogMOD_Squad/Master_Prof*
+GodFather to an Angel:RIP-Paloma Geronimo
-=-=-=-=-=-
TheCompendium
Team Random
Proud bro of SSJ3DVP11
ipgeek21.com
SHUT UP & DO something about it

From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Otaku

Member # 42359



posted November 22, 2002 05:00 PM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Anyone care to translate that mess into a single, concise message? This is what I don't like about the e-mails-for convenience I switched to the digest form and apparently have not gotten that last e-mail (or its buried [Razz] ). The way it reads right now, it appears that Slowking now negates trainers instead of just preventing their play. Negate in this case means the costs are still paid, but the effect can be canceled out, so to speak. If that is the case, what happens if Oak is prevented? I would view the discarding of you hand as the "cost to play". I sincerely hope this is how it is ruled... it does what I have said TPC should have been doing he whole time: instead of whining about broken cards, make them less broken by introducing effective counters.

--------------------
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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted November 22, 2002 06:16 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Currently oak is not interpeted that way, presumably because it does not say "in order to."

--------------------
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AIM: yoshi1001

From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 22, 2002 07:03 PM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Yoshi hit the nail on the head here -- I also asked MTM that -- The discarding with Oak isn't done until the Trainer is actually resolved -- it lacks the "in order to" clause.

P.S. In response to "Flippymon...Trainermon...something must give"

For the player playing Slowking against a non-Slowking deck, now it's Flippy-Trainermon [Razz]

--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted November 22, 2002 07:18 PM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I KNEW I was asking for trouble...

NOTE:
Game: Pokemon
Logic
WANTED
Dead or Alive
$100 Dollar Reward for anyone who can resort to game logic without the logic and yet still understand the game's intentions.

Result: May WotC receive guidance by a higher power, essence, or divinity OR a Coin flip landing HEADS - whichever comes first.

Dvile.. no that was a GREAT equalizer [Devilish]

--------------------
Drafts bring out the BEST of the WORST cards in Pokemon
*TC Member/WizpogMOD_Squad/Master_Prof*
+GodFather to an Angel:RIP-Paloma Geronimo
-=-=-=-=-=-
TheCompendium
Team Random
Proud bro of SSJ3DVP11
ipgeek21.com
SHUT UP & DO something about it

From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
matthewssandslash
Member
Member # 74650



posted November 22, 2002 10:25 PM      Profile for matthewssandslash   Email matthewssandslash    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
0_o

This is awful.

--------------------
Top 75 in the WORLD in Limited! =)

14-5 overall at Worlds in side events, 3-3 in Team Legendary Sealed, 5-2 in Theme Deck challenge (using Trouble!), 11-2 overall in one-player events... 6-0 in Gym Draft! =)

www.pojo.com/pokemon.html is the COOLEST site ANYWHERE.

And for anyone who cares, I discovered the Strength Charm misruling. You all won your STS', but I discovered the strength Charm misruling. So there.

From: Here, I think... I'm not sure though. =/ | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dark and Vile

Member # 74653



posted November 23, 2002 05:06 AM      Profile for Dark and Vile   Email Dark and Vile    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
In Modified, it looks like there are only 2 trainers that are really affected by this,
Energy Retrieval and Super Energy Retrieval.

I am assuming that, due to the wording on the card, Pokemon Center and Pokemon Nurse are not affected.

From: Melbourne, FL | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
MrGrass

Member # 166



posted November 23, 2002 09:44 PM      Profile for MrGrass   Email MrGrass    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Actually, I don't think either of the Retrievals would be influenced by this ruling. The cards say to trade cards from your hand for cards in your discard pile.

--------------------
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From: A WOTC Store in Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Prime
Member
Member # 102940



posted November 25, 2002 07:01 PM      Profile for Prime   Email Prime    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
So your saying that if someone has a slowking out, and you want to play a computer search, you must discard the two card from your hand then your opponent flips and if tails the trainer works, if heads, the trainer goes back on the top of your deck and you lose the two cards you discarded to play the trainer?

--------------------
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
BJJ763

Member # 158



posted November 25, 2002 07:55 PM      Profile for BJJ763   Email BJJ763    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Prime Keee-rect!! Gets even worse when there's a Chaos Gym out......

--------------------
Our trade list

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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
RULEMASTER

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posted November 25, 2002 08:41 PM      Profile for RULEMASTER   Email RULEMASTER    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Good ruling on the ruling team's part. They are the real Rulemasters. Keep 'em comin!

--------------------
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From: Wisconsin | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 26, 2002 12:32 PM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
And the nice thing for a Slowking/Chaos player being if they play a Trainer through Chaos and get Tails, and the opponent chooses to use it, now the Slowking player can flip for the Slowkings (since they are "playing" the Trainer) and if they get heads, the card they originally played goes back on top of their own deck! Sweet, no?

--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pokenaut

Member # 189



posted November 26, 2002 12:42 PM      Profile for Pokenaut   Email Pokenaut    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Wow. We haven't sanctioned an Unlimted constructed Tournament at York in well over a year, and not one of our players is complaining or asking for it. We had four players from York win free trips to Worlds, and perhaps our focus on the Modified format has been a factor somehow. We have between 20-30 players show up every single Saturday for sanctioned play at elevated K values. I am not trying to Spam here, but I just find it so odd that CPU, being not THAT far away from us here in NE Ohio and others see this ruling as really having much of any impact on the game. It would be like someone telling me that they had a great new twist on a metal Chansey deck. Yawn [Bored] . Don't get me wrong, I agree with some players that say the game has become more flip dependant (mostly babies and focus), but even still, it's IMO not nearly as boring as watching an Unlimited Tourney unfold and seeing the same old rot over and over again. We have had a large quantity of real strange rogue decks do quite well for a long time, along with the more common mf powerhouses. Major Impact? I think not, unless your metagame obviously is stuck in Unlimited.

'Naut

--------------------
Ç...What if the Hokey-Pokey is what it's REALLY all about....Ç

Proud member of Team Poképarents- we play Pokémon with our kids!

Founding member of Team Dead Sneasel-Our team's home is York Comics and Cards in Parma, Ohio

~Being an insomniac dyslexic agnostic, I often stay up all night wondering if there really is a doG~

From: Shaker Heights, Ohio USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted November 26, 2002 01:14 PM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I got sick of MODIFIED.
We ate it, drank it, dreamt it, played it...
it became passe...

I get bored of formats easily... so PLAYING unlimited every now and then spices things up.

SO if Ya'll don't sanction them 'Naut... we still do.

I alternate formats for my tourneys... WotC will MAY never have an UNLIMITED sanctioned event... well players still crave it... don't EVEN get CPU started...

PS I LUVED seeing all the decks coming out of that area in the Deck Forum... been too quiet
lately [Frown]

--------------------
Drafts bring out the BEST of the WORST cards in Pokemon
*TC Member/WizpogMOD_Squad/Master_Prof*
+GodFather to an Angel:RIP-Paloma Geronimo
-=-=-=-=-=-
TheCompendium
Team Random
Proud bro of SSJ3DVP11
ipgeek21.com
SHUT UP & DO something about it

From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dark and Vile

Member # 74653



posted November 26, 2002 06:46 PM      Profile for Dark and Vile   Email Dark and Vile    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I'll throw my cents into the Modified vs. Unlimited discussion (even though this is getting off topic)

We here in Raleigh also had 4 trip winners to Worlds as well. Leading up to Worlds, we played almost exclusively Modified (although we had a few drafts thrown in).

Now, our season-ending tournaments are Unlimited.

Have we had an outcry for unlimited? Nope.

Do people like playing it? I think most people prefer Modified (Team has certainly come on strong though), but our turnout for all the tournaments (Modified and Unlimited) has been on par with what you're seeing at York. We also have a very healthy league (credit to the gym leaders for all the work they do).

Did our focus on Modified help our players win trips to Worlds? Uh, yeah. Absolutely.

I like changing it up every now and then. I do well in Unlimited and my daughter does great. But, for us, Unlimited is more of a novelty than the main attraction.

I'm glad we play Unlimited, but I am glad it's just an occasional thing.

[ November 26, 2002, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Dark and Vile ]

From: Melbourne, FL | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pokenaut

Member # 189



posted November 26, 2002 07:12 PM      Profile for Pokenaut   Email Pokenaut    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Dark n' Vile-I agree totally. I "could" just state that "the next tournament will be Unlimited" and no one would PROBABLY complain TOO much, but there has been ZERO requests for said format. To get slightly back on topic, just imagine the ruling meeting where this ruling was discussed:
MT#1 "So on to the next topic, we need to provide a ruling for the Slowking/Chaos issue...one that is more consistant with the Japanese intent...what do you say Mike?"
MT#2 "Huh?..what?...Unlimited still?...heck, in Japan the dern Slowking doesn't even work unless it's active. What in the world are these people still bothering us with rulings on ancient cards? What's next?...another Ditto or Shapeshift question?"
MT#3 "ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz"
MT#1 "Time to rotate out Genesis and wake him up"

[ November 26, 2002, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Pokenaut ]

--------------------
Ç...What if the Hokey-Pokey is what it's REALLY all about....Ç

Proud member of Team Poképarents- we play Pokémon with our kids!

Founding member of Team Dead Sneasel-Our team's home is York Comics and Cards in Parma, Ohio

~Being an insomniac dyslexic agnostic, I often stay up all night wondering if there really is a doG~

From: Shaker Heights, Ohio USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 27, 2002 06:31 AM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
ROFL @ calling Chaos Gym "ancient"!

Granted, I play a lot of Modified as well -- but not by choice, and not IRL. Usually I end up doing all the MMF deck experiementing I do on Apprentice, where all the tourneys on the two ladders that are frequented seem to be in the above format.

Granted, it's not the same as playing against someone IRL but for an idea of metagame, it IS an acceptible substitute.

One of the four professors in our group has gone to far as to say she would play Modified more often if Elm was a definite mainstay, and if Computer Search was included into the mix...not Finder....not Oak...JUST Search.

I'm glad that WotC did their Professor challenge last August in Unlimited, however -- shows that the format isn't dead.

As for the "twist on the Metal Chansey deck" thing, I mean Unliimited decks are ever so slightly updated with these newer cards.

I mean Discovery didn't do much, it gave us Iggly, and Tyrogue shows up once in a while to FTK a baby for a win.

Revelations REALLY didn't do much for Unlimited -- but it gave metal Chansey Healing Fields.

Not many of Expedition's cards are used in Unlimited -- except for its drawpower.

ANYWAY...back on topic...

I enjoy broken cards as much as the next guy. Heck, I enjoy broken cards A LOT more than the next guy. But this is ridiculous. We NEED that difference between playing and using a Trainer x.x

--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
NoPoke

Member # 42315


posted November 27, 2002 08:48 AM      Profile for NoPoke   Email NoPoke    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I wonder if they will errata the slowking text to make it like the japanese one?

Since slowking just received a massive boost, it would go some way towards reducing its anticipated dominance

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========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS

some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL

-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------

'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.

From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 27, 2002 04:11 PM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
That would make sense...Slowking was changed for the Unlimited environment of Trainermon which the Japanese don't really have. Maybe it needs to be put back the way it was -- it would surely make Modified a lot easier to deal with -- but Unlimited would go back being an all out Trainer fest, and most all decks would gain +2 slots for Trainer cards since they don't have to run the Igglybuffs/Magbies anymore. (Don't even say Pichu because Slowking runs Pichu itself)

--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
NoPoke

Member # 42315


posted November 27, 2002 04:51 PM      Profile for NoPoke   Email NoPoke    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I'd like to see how unlimited copes with the newly empowered chaos gym.

Oh I love Chaos Gym.. You can try to play Trainermon aginst me and my Chaos Gyms...but you are going to have to THINK too... evil grin

three cheers for Chaos Gym.

the 'you' isn't you CPU its all the people who have learnt trainermon by rote without learning to think. Mwa HAHAHAHA

--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS

some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL

-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------

'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.

From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak

Member # 37400


posted November 27, 2002 09:17 PM      Profile for CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak   Email CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Heh...if Slowking is changed back to *** , but Chaos Gym stays the same...every deck gets -2 Iggly/Magby and +2 Gym, getting it up to 5 to combat the new Trainer threat.

And manipulating your hand so you have exactly enough cards to Comp/IF/Oak without any drawback whatsoever isn't enough thinking for you? [Razz]

--------------------
What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.

Viva la unoriginality!

From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged


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