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Author
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Topic: One hit KO combo (sort of)
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Rockets Steelix
Member
Member # 111068
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posted October 26, 2002 08:18 AM
Has anyone thought of this combo:
Sabrina's Kadabra + Exped. Vileplume.
If you get heads with Plume's Power, then the defending pokemon is poisoned. Then if Sab's Kadabra's Life Drain attack flips heads the defending Pkmn gets damage counters placed on it until it only has 10 HP left. Then between turns The defending takes 10 for poison automatically knocking it out! Placing Damage counters gets around metal energy, Resistance and poison gets around Focus Band (I think). One problem with this is that you at least have to get Two heads, but if you have multiple Vileplumes on the bench and Trainer Sab.'s ESP you can have a good chance to One hit KO them. The biggest problem is probably Gold berry, Berry and Miracle Berry which can heal damage before poison takes effect or take away poison. LMK what you guys think of this combo. Go easy on me cuz I'm a NOOB!!! LOL!!!
![[Roll Eyes]](../tcg/rolleyes.gif) ![[Angel]](../tcg/graemlins/angel.gif)
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From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2002
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted October 26, 2002 09:19 AM
Not bad. It definetly gets around Foucs Band, but as you pointed out, Gold Berry and Miracle Berry won't worry about it. Still, it might make a nice "rogue deck". Not bad at all... ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif)
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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
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Porygone3
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Member # 73689
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posted October 26, 2002 11:23 AM
wow, get that combo off and nothing - no powers, no trainers, nothing can stop it, I'm serous, only the baby flip rull would hurt, and it would still get posioned. Since your running grass, you may as well put in a Dark Gloom to add confusion just in case- (ie its a baby pokemon, make it harder to retreat/attack) or put diger into the deck, then you've incressed the odds of ko'ing whatever your fighting agenst. (turn one do life drain, turn 2 use diger)
good 1 I may make a deck using this stragity. ma ha ha.
thanks.
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted October 26, 2002 11:42 AM
Welcome the the wonderfull world of fun-decks!
No thats not a derisory remark, its great watching your opponents archetype suffering under the onslaught of an unusual combo. It doesn't matter if someone else has thought of it before. The important thing is that you thought of it.
Today at league I played a fun-deck based upon Foretress and Quagsire. It did ok, and caused mayhem to all the baby decks. Since I threw it together real quick, I recon that there is still a fair bit of improvement left to be made in the trainer engine. It was rather nice wreaking havok on a Kingdra-centre deck Now if only I could flip heads against babies it would have been 2-0 to me rather than 1-1
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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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-Snorlax King-
Member
Member # 111135
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posted October 26, 2002 04:40 PM
yeah man,but that take a t least a couple turns to build the energy up(i know plumes attk is a pp but not sur about kadabra)but what about plumes retreat cost?every evolved pokemon almost HAS to have a retreat cost(i myself have never seen one without)
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-Snorlax King-
The kid that never grew up
From: Goldenrod City,NC | Registered: Oct 2002
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mercad
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Member # 22435
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posted October 26, 2002 08:41 PM
ive seen plenty.. example jumpluff
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From: Rancho Cucamunga, California, United States | Registered: May 2001
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted October 27, 2002 08:35 AM
IMO, this combo is NOT worth it. Here's why. Vileplume's Poison Pollen requires a coin flip. S-Kadabra's Life Drain requires a coin flip. So, it's only a 25-percent chance of getting a KO. Now, throw in the possibility that a Berry or Gold Berry is attached to the Defending Pokemon, and now there's NO chance of KO'ing it.
Fun? Definately. Competitive? Not even close.
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From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Tommy Yan
Member
Member # 97440
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posted October 27, 2002 04:47 PM
Best way to get around that? SABRINA'S ESP ON SABRINA'S KADABRA!
Well, now we have a little BETTER chance...
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From: 123 Cardboard Box Lane | Registered: Jul 2002
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted October 28, 2002 07:53 AM
Quote from Tommy Yan:
quote:
Best way to get around that? SABRINA'S ESP ON SABRINA'S KADABRA!
Well, now we have a little BETTER chance...
You don't get a BETTER chance, but just ANOTHER chance at 25% (or 0% when a Berry or Gold Berry is attached). You don't improve the odds of getting a KO by using Sabrina's ESP.
This is the same FALSE pretense that addicted gamblers use to justify their need to try again. Continued gambling doesn't improved their odds of winning. They just get another chance with the same odds.
[ October 28, 2002, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: SteveP ]
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From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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LuckyCal
Member # 2435
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posted October 28, 2002 08:44 AM
Actually, Sabrina's ESP does improve the chance of a OHKO... nominally. Instead of a 25 percent chance, it's now 37.5 percent. That isn't enough of an improvement, though, for me to decide to use the combo. Or if I do use the combo, Sabrina's Esp isn't enough of a help to waste a slot in the deck. Maybe it's worth it to some people, but only if you're having trouble finding cards to include in the deck.
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He's always ready, he's always set, he's always well prepared. He's the most peculiar man you'd care to meet. -- Barenaked Ladies (The King Of Bedside Manor)
I know, but I still believe in ignorance as my best defense. -- Matchbox Twenty (Argue)
Have you seen Ajax?
From: Springfield, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted October 28, 2002 12:33 PM
everyone keeps thinking that a mirical berry will help, no it will not- because you take the posion dammage, then remove the condition. Also if you have at least 2 'Plums out you have a greater chance of getting heads and if you got a Sabrina's esp, well your set.
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted October 28, 2002 01:14 PM
OK LuckyCal, you've got me interested. Make me a believer. Show me the math. How does two mutually exclusive chances to KO at 25-percent end up being a 37-percent chance of KO-ing?
Actually, I believe you that the odds of eventually getting a successful KO increases slightly over time. But, like you said. The cost doesn't justify the expense.
[ October 28, 2002, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: SteveP ]
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From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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-Snorlax King-
Member
Member # 111135
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posted October 28, 2002 01:18 PM
i ahev a sabrinas esp,it will not work for plume.
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-Snorlax King-
The kid that never grew up
From: Goldenrod City,NC | Registered: Oct 2002
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted October 28, 2002 02:06 PM
OK, here's the highest probability possible:
Scenerio - 4 Vileplumes in play and a Sabrina's ESP attached:
19/64 = 70.3 percent
Other scenerios:
(# of Vileplumes, # ESPs)
(4,0): 15/32 = 46.9 percent
(3,1): 21/32 = 65.6 percent
(3,0): 7/16 = 43.8 percent
(2,1): 9/16 = 56.2 percent
(2,0): 3/8 = 37.5 percent
(1,1): 3/8 = 37.5 percent
(1,0): 1/4 = 25.0 percent
[ October 28, 2002, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: SteveP ]
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Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 28, 2002 04:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Porygone3:
everyone keeps thinking that a mirical berry will help, no it will not- because you take the posion dammage, then remove the condition.
quote:
Q. Say I have a Pokémon with 50 hp active that is poisoned. I attach a gold berry to it. At the end of my turn am I knocked out by the poison or will the gold berry take effect first leaving me with 10 damage?
A. As it states in the Neo Genesis rule book...you have the choice of when to activate the Pokémon tool between turns...so yes, you would have 10 damage. (Dec 21, 2000 WotC Chat, Q213)
So actually it would work (the Pokemon would have 10 HP left, in this case).
quote:
i ahev a sabrinas esp,it will not work for plume.
They mean for Sabrina's Kadabra's Life Drain. Also, don't forget:
quote:
Q. Can you play more than one Sabrina's ESP on a Sabrina's Pokémon?
A. Sure. (Aug 31, 2000 WotC Chat Q126)
I wanna see this thing in action someday-preferably against someone else.
[ October 28, 2002, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted October 29, 2002 07:26 AM
Umm, hello Profecor, your wrong. You are doing a quote that explans how a GOLD BERRY works, and more over are posting a quote that is applyed on MY turn, that does not help, IF I posion them during my turn (I put a poision marker on them to show they are posioned, and turn off all powers on the defending pokemon) then I use life drain that puts dammage markers on them untill there remaining HP is 10, then they take 10 dammage for posion, then if they had mirrical berry attached, would remove all status conditions, removeing the posion marker, then dammage would be calacutated, and they would be knocked out, regardless of Gold Berry, Miracal Berry, or Focus Band, since the attack is not knocking it out- the posion is. The same result can happen it a 2 turn combo, If I posion you first, then use life drain, you would still be knocked out and have no pokemon tool would save you. Now, however if the rulling on mirracal berry is "PREVENTS all status conditions" (and rember, burn is not on mirracal berry yet so that would have to be included now?)
then yes, miracal berry would work, but last I saw you took the posion dammage, then miracl berry actavated, please show me where it says this rulling Prof!! Or are you wrong?
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted October 29, 2002 07:42 AM
quote:
Miracle Berry - Neo Genesis
• This card is worded this way for a reason. During the between turn phase, you can choose to use the Miracle Berry at any point (after Poison damage, after Char damage, after Darkness Energy damage, or before any of them as well). Whereas, if the conditions are met at the start of the turn, you MUST use it.
Source: Master Rulings Document (emphasis mine)
So, if they're aware of your strategy, you can be thwarted with a Miracle Berry and your opponent's active will be left with 10 HP.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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BJJ763
Member # 158
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posted October 29, 2002 07:54 AM
Porygone3 you seem to be under the impression Posion damage occurs during your turn, it doesn't. Posion damage occurs between turns. Miracle Berry, Gold Berry, and Berry all activate between turns, when the triggering conditions are met. They also activate at any time in the between turn phase.
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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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TElekid
Member
Member # 50807
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posted October 29, 2002 09:54 AM
I like strategies like these. I dedicate time to try to make these strategies work better. Unfortunately however, I do not see any practical way of improving this one. If you ever find a way to make Brock's Ninetales the most feared pokemon ever with the help of every type, I salute you soldier!!
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Registered: Nov 2001
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted October 29, 2002 12:46 PM
Yes, it happens betwen turns, however, using the same rulling a pokemon with 50 hp, with a gold berry attached, getting hit with an attack doing 50 points of dammage, would survive. Also, Brock's Ninetails with any cards attached to it, and a mirical berry attached, getting hit by status would not lose the evolutions, since the triger or that status happens, then the berry goes off before it can lose its power- or would the losing of the power happen first?
Now what kind of loop hole has been created by this errata?
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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LuckyCal
Member # 2435
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posted October 29, 2002 03:12 PM
No, no... damage from an attack occurs before the end of the turn. Likewise, Special Conditions also occur before the end of the turn, turning off any applicable Pokémon Powers. Miracle Berry, Gold Berry, and Berry cannot prevent that.
However, Miracle Berry can remove the Poisoned status before the poison gets a chance to place damage counters on the afflicted Pokémon, because the placing of damage counters occurs between turns.
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He's always ready, he's always set, he's always well prepared. He's the most peculiar man you'd care to meet. -- Barenaked Ladies (The King Of Bedside Manor)
I know, but I still believe in ignorance as my best defense. -- Matchbox Twenty (Argue)
Have you seen Ajax?
From: Springfield, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
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posted October 29, 2002 03:28 PM
This is a nice combo. But let's see if we can't formulate the DECK in which combo would work?
Pokemon: 19
3 Cleffa
3 Sab. Abra
3 Sab. Kadabra
4 Oddish
2 Gloom
4 Vileplume
Trainers: 39
3 Professor Oak
3 Computer Search
3 Item Finder
4 Pokemon Breeder
4 Sabrina's ESP
3 Super Energy Removal
2 Gold Berry
2 Lass
2 Gust of Wind
2 Nightly Garbage Run
1 Switch
Energy: 12
4 Psychic
4 Grass
4 Rainbow (only need 1 or the other)
Would this work? I know, lack of DCEs (for Psyshot) and Slowking protection but would this be an acceptable basic form of how the deck would look?
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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.
Viva la unoriginality!
From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted October 29, 2002 05:05 PM
somedays I just love these erratas...
sigh.
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Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.
"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."
"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"
From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted October 29, 2002 05:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Porygone3:
somedays I just love these erratas...
sigh.
Ummmm....
What errata are you talking about?
None of the Berries have been errata'd. They work as printed. Is there something else you are referring to?
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Registered: Feb 2001
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bulbasnore
Member # 703
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posted October 29, 2002 09:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak:
This is a nice combo. But let's see if we can't formulate the DECK in which combo would work?
MIghty nice of you CPU to post up the deck context for this combo. I'll make a note of it for when I've got 4 Exp Plume; I think my daughter would love this. Nice combo, R. Steelix. Yep, they're right its a low probability, but it will be cool to launch it. I like the combo for the Unlimited format as there is a very low energy requirement and it gets around PSY resistance. You just need speed to get it working. Poison is just nasty in an of itself in Unlimited; very few sniggly decks are packing Miracle Berry, but many have Gold Berry.
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From: Where you play a kid's game and never T8 in it! | Registered: Feb 2001
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