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Author Topic: Question about Forgotten Actions
SteveP

Member # 14743


posted March 05, 2003 01:23 AM      Profile for SteveP   Email SteveP    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Everyone nows that at the start of every turn, you MUST draw a card. Now I ask, lets say that you forgot. You play an energy, then realize that you forgot to draw. As long as you didn't do something like Pokedex, or Recycle, or returned a trainer due to your opponent's Mindgames, etc., etc., etc., then you should be allowed (and required) to draw a card. Well, if Pokedex where played or Mindgames happened, I guess you could still draw a "random" card from the bottom of your deck.

This also brings up a question about Gold Berry. Let's say that a player forgets to play Gold Berry between turns and he's poisoned. Let's say a mega-HP Pokemon with a Gold Berry attached is poisoned. In between turns, the player places the 4th damage counter on his mega-HP Pokemon, but forgets to active the Gold Berry. In the middle of the next turn, he realizes this error and immediately actives the Gold Berry. I'd say, that's the proper corrective action, because a required action that is forgotten MUST be done immediately upon discovery (if possible), regardless of the timing requirements.

I'm I right, or "way off base?"

[ March 05, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: SteveP ]

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From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
PokePop

Member # 8



posted March 05, 2003 07:54 AM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Right, actions that must be done, must be done.
Now, the question is, if a card was not drawn and the hand was shuffled back into the deck after the fack (say, by playing Prof Elm), does that constitute an "unrewindable error" and trigger the Prize Swap penalty? Or do you just say you lost that card draw and issue a Caution?

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Dark Pinsir
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posted March 05, 2003 08:03 AM      Profile for Dark Pinsir   Email Dark Pinsir    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well, I think that as long as you haven't changed the top card in your deck (by shuffling it, or arranging, or placing another card in your deck) you can still draw the card without ant penalty, but if you somehow re-arrange it, I think you may get a penalty for minor procedural error.

The Gold Berry says: "At the start of each turn, if there are at least 4 damage counters on it, remove 4 damage counters and discard Gold Berry", so you would HAVE to discard it, even if you don't want to, or if you don't rememeber because it says that you must discard it if at the start of either your turn or your opponent's you must remove 4 damage counters and discard Gold Berry.
So it would be like this:
Between turns:
1-Your acive takes 10 damage due to poison.
Your turn:
1-You remove the 4 damage counters and discard Gold Berry.
2-you draw a card, and your turn goes on.

PokePop: I think that prize swap isn't needed, as long as the top card of that player's deck was random (did not arranged or looked at any cards) I would issue a Caution (or Warning if this had happened repeatedly) for Minor Procedural Error; but if he/she looked at the cards and didn't wanted to draw so he/she could play Oak without discarding the top card because he/she didn't needed the card at that time (eg. Unown O sees a breeder on top and a Blastoise as second card, that player skips the draw, oaks, and uses breeder to evolve Squirtle into Blastoise; but if he/she did drew at start of turn the Blastoise couln't get played) if that would happen, I would issue a prize swap penalty.

[ March 05, 2003, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Dark Pinsir ]

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From: Capital Federal, Buenos Aires, Argentina | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
SteveP

Member # 14743


posted March 05, 2003 10:34 AM      Profile for SteveP   Email SteveP    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
PokePop, Dark Pinsir, drawing a card is generally considered to be drawn from a random deck. However, the following two cases might occur:

1. The top card on your deck ISN'T random (i.e., Recycle, Mindgames) at the start of your turn. In this case, if the player didn't play something like Elm, and even if the deck was shuffled somehow, you could easily force a draw of that particular card that was on the top when the turn started (by calling the judge over if necessary).

2. The top card on your deck IS random at the start of your turn. Even if you forgot to draw and it's not longer random (i.e., Recycle, Mindgames), the bottom of your deck is still random and you could draw from there.

Obviously, if a player forgets to draw, then plays Elm, you DON'T let him draw.

Now, regarding the penalty for a forgotten draw, it is well documented in the Penalty Guidelines in Section 124. The same goes for other forgotten actions such as Gold Berry (Section 110-113, Procedural Errors). For the forgotten draw, you should make the player draw the necessary card(s) unless a turn has passed. However, for the forgotten Gold Berry, I'd assume that you rectify it immediately when it's caught.

BTW, I remember DMTM saying that while judging, he once saw a Ditto on the bench with 5 damage counters. He immediately awarded a KO to the opposing player and discarded the Ditto.

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Porygone3
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posted March 05, 2003 10:56 AM      Profile for Porygone3      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I personaly think that if you dont draw, you must draw and not be allowed to attack, use powers, etc... and if you did something like recycle and forget to draw, or something unrewindable- then you put a extra prize card out, and your oppenent draws a prize as long as they have at least 2 out. oh- maybe thats just me because I play decking decks and I constantly remind people to draw, then do whatever, I think if you call your attack, your turn ends then you must draw.

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IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted March 05, 2003 11:05 AM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Porygone3,

THAT is not according to the DCI guidelines, well DCI penalties are nott very specific when it concerns Pokemon BUT a judge CANNOT penalize a player by NOT allowing them to NOT attack or use powers the turn they forget to draw.

*but you never know EACH case is different*

but THAT would not be my 1st reaction nor penalty.

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