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Author Topic: Dark Tyranitar
CmonIWanaPLaYa
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Member # 101319



posted May 27, 2003 06:34 AM      Profile for CmonIWanaPLaYa      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
His first attack says fighting energy cards attached, so does rainbow and crystal energy count?? They provide fighting energy (crystal with a fighting attached) so should you get to flip for those as well? I can't find a ruling on TPC and the Judges couldn't either this weekend so they said no. Just would like to konw.. Thanks in advanced!!

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Either, you Pokemon Yes, or you Pokemon no. If you Pokemon Guess So, sooner later, "squish" justa like bug Pokemon!!

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yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted May 27, 2003 06:41 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
From the oracle:

quote:
{F} Mountain Smasher Flip a number of coins equal to the number of {F} Energy cards attached to Dark Tyranitar. This attack does 20 damage times the number of heads. Then,for each heads, discard the top card from your opponent’s deck. 20x
So yes, you get to flip for rainbow and crystal energy because it says (F) Energy cards, not basic (F) Energy cards.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CmonIWanaPLaYa
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Member # 101319



posted May 27, 2003 07:00 AM      Profile for CmonIWanaPLaYa      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
That is what i thought too.. so my son got screwed this weekend at SBZ.. the Judges couldn't provide a ruling so they said he couldn't flip for it, which greatly altered his deck design and strategy... that truly sux esp. since he is 9 and got a warning and prize loss for it during one of his matches.. is there any ruling in the compendium on this that i am just missing??

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Either, you Pokemon Yes, or you Pokemon no. If you Pokemon Guess So, sooner later, "squish" justa like bug Pokemon!!

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BJJ763

Member # 158



posted May 27, 2003 07:39 AM      Profile for BJJ763   Email BJJ763    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
No specific ruling on this in the Compendium but one of the Metarules is "If a card provides Y energy, it is treated as a Y energy card.". You can reference Venusaur's Energy Trans and Rainbow Energy.

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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CmonIWanaPLaYa
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Member # 101319



posted May 27, 2003 07:48 AM      Profile for CmonIWanaPLaYa      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
That is what i referenced and yet they still said it couldn't be done.. bad ruling overall but at least we got the RH Elms [Eek!] [Wink] Still was a great Weekend for Pokemon!! It is nice to know that others think the way I do!!

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Either, you Pokemon Yes, or you Pokemon no. If you Pokemon Guess So, sooner later, "squish" justa like bug Pokemon!!

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PokePop

Member # 8



posted May 27, 2003 02:24 PM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
*sigh*

Well, I'm glad you have such a good attitude about the Judging error. Hope you son had a great time!

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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno

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mewsmom
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posted May 28, 2003 06:24 AM      Profile for mewsmom   Email mewsmom    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Hmm, well unless there's a power in play that allows them to BECOME an acutal Fighting, the Rainbow and Crysal only PROVIDE. So therefore if you only have a Crystal, Fighting and Rainbow attatched you actually have only 1 Fighting Energy Attatched. Seeing the Oracle actually says Fighting Attatched!!

Don't see it as being Screwed, we are Always Learing. And we got ya beat, Since when does Benching a pokemon keep them from doing an attack once they become active AGAIN?? Benching a pokemon disregards any, Can't do this attack next turn.

It's only a Game [Devilish]

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From: Ft Worth TX | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CmonIWanaPLaYa
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posted May 28, 2003 06:31 AM      Profile for CmonIWanaPLaYa      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well mewsmom, the problem there is that it doesn't state BASIC Fighting energy card. just fighting energy card. If rainbow and Crystal provide the energy, they are that energy card, just not that BASIC energy card.. it is all in the wording.. and it is funny that some Professors here and Judges agree that the Crystal and Rainbow do provide Fighting Energy for the attack... one more to go to the chat for a ruling... It is hard do to Energy Trans and Heavy Metal saying G/ M Energy... so Crystal and Rainbow get around this.. the problem is there hasn't been an official ruling on it so no one can say really one way or the other...

[Razz] And I know it is only a game, but if it were YOUR child that it happened to, you would prolly be a little upset about it as well!! [Eek!] Tru?!? [Big Grin]

[ May 28, 2003, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: CmonIWanaPLaYa ]

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Either, you Pokemon Yes, or you Pokemon no. If you Pokemon Guess So, sooner later, "squish" justa like bug Pokemon!!

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BJJ763

Member # 158



posted May 28, 2003 07:43 AM      Profile for BJJ763   Email BJJ763    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
An "official ruling"? Why? Based upon Heavy Metal and Energy Trans, there's your ruling. Oh and the meta-game rule of "if an energy card provides Y-type energy, it is treated as a Y-type energy card". Must an "official ruling" exist for every single situation? As MTM has stated before in the chat, "No.".

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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CmonIWanaPLaYa
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posted May 28, 2003 08:29 AM      Profile for CmonIWanaPLaYa      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Must an "official ruling" exist for every single situation?
Quite frankly, no it shouldn't, BJJ, but when Judges can't agree at a tournament, doesn't that in itself display there is possible misrepresentation of the rules and unclear judgment being made which ultimately hurts the players and supporters of this TCG??!! [Roll Eyes]

Whereas I agree with what you are saying about the Energy Trans/ Heavy Metal situation, some judges concur and some don't. So if this is a judgement problem, then shouldn't that condone a ruling?? [Eek!]

It is a simple solution to everyone involved: Players, TOs, Judges when specific rulings are made about apecfifc cards.

Why can't one ruling be made for Rainbow and Crystal that goes something to the extent of:

[teach] When Rainbow and Crystal Energy(when another basic energy is attached to that pokemon) are attached, they provide all types of energy at the same time but only one at a time and count as that Energy Card , but not a Basic Energy Card. [teach]

See.. simple and clear.. then Judges can make a ruling based on fact and not interpretation.. that is all I am saying..

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Either, you Pokemon Yes, or you Pokemon no. If you Pokemon Guess So, sooner later, "squish" justa like bug Pokemon!!

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PokePop

Member # 8



posted May 28, 2003 08:53 AM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Mewsmom: I think Cmon's attitude is fine, especially considering that he is totally right and the Judge should have been able to extend the Energy Trans ruling to apply to this case as BJJ says!

Well, based on the couple of threads that are currently going about Rainbow and Crystal, I guess we do need some specific rulings.

Not because there should be any doubt about how it works, but because it seems a lot of people can't apply similar rulings.

[ May 28, 2003, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: PokePop ]

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Dan the Pokeman

Member # 242


posted May 29, 2003 07:49 AM      Profile for Dan the Pokeman   Email Dan the Pokeman    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I don't agree. Previous rulings have made it clear that when an energy card supplies a type of energy, it is treated as that type of energy. To wit:

quote:
Q. If I have two Rainbow energy attached to a Dark Charizard and I flip two heads, can I discard the Rainbow Energy or do I have to have Fire Energy cards?
A. You could discard the Rainbow Energy as they do count as all basic energy types. (June 22, 2000 WotC Chat, Q227)

quote:
Q. If an attack says to discard a specific type of energy card to use that attack, can a Rainbow Energy be used to pay that cost? There a few new cards that that would be important to based on the wordings.
A. Yes, you can.

quote:
Q. Crystal Energy states that it provides Energy of all types (colors) of basic energy attached to the Pokemon Crystal Energy is attached to, does that mean that if you have a fighting energy and fire energy attached to the pokemon it provides one energy
A. Crystal actually just provides one energy from the look at the top right corner of the card, so it would either make one Fire or one Fighting. It's sort of a limited Rainbow Energy.

quote:
Q. If you attach a Crystal Energy to a pokemon with an energy card that has been changed somehow (i.e. Porygon2's Energy Converter), does Crystal Energy provide the new converted energy type, or the original energy type listed on the Basic Energy card?
A. It would provide the original type shown on the Basic Energy card.

quote:
A. If I play a Rocket Zapdos and attach three rainbow to it and one lets say potion energy, do the three rainbow do 10 damage each to Zapdos when I use Electroburn???
A. While Rainbow energy is in play it counts as every type, so yes it would do 10 damage.

quote:
Q. With Aquapolis Scizor's attack "Heavy Metal", can you use a Rainbow Energy as the Metal requirement?
A. I would say yes. It is not asking for a specific card. If a card provides energy of a type, it is considered an energy card of that type. (emphasis added).

All these rulings indicate that a Rainbow or Crystal Energy that supplies Fighting Energy would be flipped for when using Mountain Crusher. They are, for all intents and purposes, "Fighting Energy Cards attached".
From: Goose Creek, SC | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
PokePop

Member # 8



posted May 29, 2003 11:32 AM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Dan: Who are you not agreeing with.
We all (the Profs anyway) agreed with your interpretation.

Or you're disagreeing that a clarified ruling would be useful?
While I agree that judges should be able to rule properly by transposing existing rulings, apparantly its not happening.

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