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Author Topic: Expedition Gengar's Chaos Move
lance313

Member # 1891



posted October 05, 2002 12:22 AM      Profile for lance313   Email lance313    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Poké-POWER: Chaos Move Once during your turn (before your attack), if your opponent has 3 or fewer Prizes, you may move 1 damage counter from 1 Pokémon (yours or your opponent’s) to another (even if it would Knock Out the other Pokémon). This power can’t be used if Gengar is affected by a Special Condition.
Okay, so it's a given that you can move a damage counter from one of your Pokés to another of yours, and between any two of your opponent's. But the wording doesn't forbid moving one from one of yours to one of your opponent's (or vice-versa. Yes there would be occasion to move from your opponent's to yours.) I can't find any ruling on this as yet. [Knows SER will chime in on this [Wink] ].

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From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Onix95

Member # 103241



posted October 05, 2002 12:38 AM      Profile for Onix95      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
By the wording, it seems that you can move a damage from your Pokemon to your opponent's, or vice versa, so this can open up new strategies. Plus Rainbow Energies may help this deck a bit more too. maybe..
From: Honolulu, Hawaii | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted October 05, 2002 05:58 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
== CHAOS MOVE (Gengar - Expedition Expansion)

Q. Is the new Gengar's power cumlative?
A. Yes, though you do know that you can only move a counter from one of your Pokemon to one of your other Pokemon...or from one of your opponent's Pokemon to one of your opponent's other Pokemon. (Sep 26, 2002 WotC Chat, Q514)

Keep that in mind.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
SteveP

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posted October 05, 2002 02:19 PM      Profile for SteveP   Email SteveP    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
yup, moving counters is restricted to one side.

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mercad
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posted October 05, 2002 03:30 PM      Profile for mercad   Email mercad    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
that stinks [Frown]

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From: Rancho Cucamunga, California, United States | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lance313

Member # 1891



posted October 05, 2002 05:40 PM      Profile for lance313   Email lance313    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Thanks guys. Figured it had been asked, but my apprently incomplete search of the logs didn't turn up that reference. However, how about in TMP? Presuming it is restricted to single player movements, and not between Pokés of different opponents or between teammates (to be consistent as it gets in Pokémon).

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From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted October 05, 2002 06:13 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Here are the TMP rulings on Gengar:

quote:
== CHAOS MOVE (Gengar - Expedition Expansion)

Q. Why is it that you can't move a damage counter from one of your opponent's pokemon to another with the new Gengar's power?
A. You can. You can't move a counter between players (this affects team play) but you can move 1 counter between your Pokemon OR between your opponent's (as long as they have 3 prizes or less left). (Oct 3, 2002 WotC Chat, Q20)

Q. In team, could you always use the new Gengar's pokemon power since the opponent will always have 3 or less prizes?
A. Actually, in this case you count the team total. So in constructed they start with 5, and in limited they start with 4. But it would work quicker wouldn't it? (Oct 3, 2002 WotC Chat, Q21)



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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Porygone3
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posted October 05, 2002 08:23 PM      Profile for Porygone3      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
what? I'm sorry- but this is not the way the wording inplys the card should be used, I belive that the intent was to have a way to make a come back if your behind on prizes, (although it could have been more clearly worded) I belive this is a card that should be played as writen- the intent of this power to me is clear- that you can move a dammage from any pokemon to any other- wether or not it would knock out that pokemon, although you may have 1 prize and your oppenent may have 3, at most you could shift 4 dammage counters, not to broken really.

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From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Onix95

Member # 103241



posted October 06, 2002 01:04 AM      Profile for Onix95      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I'm still not sure whether or not the new Gengar's power can or cannot move damage from one of your Pokemon to one of your opponent's Pokemon, because they didn't say whether or not it can or can't in the first ruling, and the second and third rulings posted are more towards team play, so I just want to make sure just so that when someone uses it, I'll know the final ruling on this.
The wording does not say that both Pokemon had to be on the same side though... I'll just leave it up to the "jury" on this one.

From: Honolulu, Hawaii | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
DenThePokemen
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posted October 06, 2002 01:40 AM      Profile for DenThePokemen   Email DenThePokemen    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
heh, i'm thinking that u can only move it between 1 player. can't do it from u 2 opponent or vica-versa. o wellz. i'll still work fine with me. our league plays 4 prizes in the format i plan 2 use this in. but the bad thing is it's weak 2 dark and i know wut onix would like 2 use. ^_^ o well. peace out ppl. [Angel]

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DMTM

Member # 10



posted October 07, 2002 11:34 AM      Profile for DMTM      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Can't move counter from yours to opponents. Or opponents to yours.

DMTM

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From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Otaku

Member # 42359



posted October 07, 2002 03:55 PM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by DMTM:
Can't move counter from yours to opponents. Or opponents to yours.

DMTM

* As LC Alakazam and Gengar watch, Expedition Gengar slides through the lid of the box. Sneasel smiles and welcomes its new roommate.*

What? [Confused] Gengar wanted some meaning to... um... its (you wanna check? [Eek!] ) existance now. Sneasel was lonely in the box, so they seemed a natural pair. [Smile] Not like it'll see much play otherwise, unless you rotate out LC abnormally early. I'll just use Alakazam and Gengar if I want that much control (an likely have it by turn 3, regardless of prizes). Well, maybe it'll get a shot in draft. Or did we miss something that makes it better... * Expedition Gengar pops its head out and gives DMTM the puppy-dog eyes look. You sure the R&D people are positive about this? Expedition Gengar is so sad...

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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
EmperorTopazJosh

Member # 72195



posted October 12, 2002 11:37 AM      Profile for EmperorTopazJosh   Email EmperorTopazJosh    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Of course, If you use Gengar (expe)instead of LC Gengar or Alakazam, you also have a combination of those two power. If so, you could have more of the EVO line than if you had both gengar and Alakazam. Also, Expedition's Gengar attack and retreat cost is better than Alakazam's.

Side Note-Expedition Gengar is the first card I have in regular rare, Holo-Rare, and Reverse Holo.

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From: Milton, WI | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Otaku

Member # 42359



posted October 14, 2002 09:04 AM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by EmperorTopazJosh:
Of course, If you use Gengar (expe)instead of LC Gengar or Alakazam, you also have a combination of those two power. If so, you could have more of the EVO line than if you had both gengar and Alakazam. Also, Expedition's Gengar attack and retreat cost is better than Alakazam's.

Side Note-Expedition Gengar is the first card I have in regular rare, Holo-Rare, and Reverse Holo.

But why would I want more of it? I have to wait until my opponent has 3 or less prizes left to use its power (its attack is nice, but other decks can do similar things). So, unless your opponent is that good or you are that bad, the game would literally be half over by the time you got to use it. Also, in the case of LC Alakazam, its power is probably better than Exp Gengars: I can move my own damage counters around as often as I want. So one of it on the bench is really enough. If you do add in LC Gengar, then you can use the power again the instant it evolves. One of it isn't two bad either. Now add in some some solid but annoying attacker... how about Murkrow? Now I can Feint Attack the active for solid damage, move one other coutner to a benched baby, hit it next turn, then finish of the active. With 'Kazamers power and some good Trainer support, I stand a good chance of winning.

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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Porygone3
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posted October 15, 2002 12:12 AM      Profile for Porygone3      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
hum, I think that this power should alow for moving 1 dammage from your poke to there poke or visa versa, true- its a meta-game that could win- but- it just seems that its how it should be played.

--------------------
Erica total 24, thats right, 24.
Dunsprace total 41.
I've gotten 98 on that Machoke at work game. I beat Driving Corasola.
I almost beat the record in Hold Down hip hop. I got 2000 or so in Kinglers day. I got 7 in Rapadash's dash. Butterfree's Flower Power 4700. 123 In Jumping Dodoro. My all foil deck is finished.

"I've got floating engery."
"I've got counter productive Powers."

"One heart can make a diferance."
"Rock the world baby, rock the world."
"Roll out!!"

From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Eltude
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posted October 15, 2002 04:08 PM      Profile for Eltude   Email Eltude    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Ok so Ive read the whole post and am confused. what IS the offcial ruling on card e gengar? You can move it from your own to your opponents or not? and you can move them between your own and between your opponents?

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I dont care about being "original" Ill build and play the deck that I am comforable with. I dont need to play a rogue deck to show Im good. I win with skill.

From: The Underworld | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted October 15, 2002 04:14 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by DMTM:
Can't move counter from yours to opponents. Or opponents to yours.

DMTM

That is the official ruling. Counters may only be transferred from one player's pokemon to another of that player's pokemon, not to another player. It may not swich sides.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eltude
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posted October 15, 2002 04:22 PM      Profile for Eltude   Email Eltude    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
so basically its like curse OHHHHHH YAH -_-

[ October 15, 2002, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Eltude ]

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I dont care about being "original" Ill build and play the deck that I am comforable with. I dont need to play a rogue deck to show Im good. I win with skill.

From: The Underworld | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
lance313

Member # 1891



posted October 15, 2002 09:45 PM      Profile for lance313   Email lance313    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Actually, it's a little better than Curse, though more limited as to when you can use it. It's for later in the game, but you can also move a counter from one of your own to another. This could help with Gold Berry (or Berry), Pokémon Center, attacks that are dependent on how many damage counters are on your active (Metwo's Juxtapose, Dodrio's Rage), moving damage from one of your Pokémon that would otherwise be knocked out next turn, etc.

The ruling has been clarified (you cannot move counters between different players' Pokémon), but if you want to discuss how this can be played strategically then let's do it.

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From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bronx

Member # 103010



posted October 16, 2002 03:15 AM      Profile for Bronx   Email Bronx    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
i find that ruling very pointless, if it said on the card
quote:
Yours or your opponents
then it should mean that, Gengar in my mind is even more useless, in conjunction with being weak to dark, he cant even have a decent pokemon power?
I find it very weird because why have a pokemon power only to back out on it... What is the japanese translation on it... maybe we can find some answers, and if it is the case that gengar can only put damage on one side then rewrite the card or something

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Otaku

Member # 42359



posted October 16, 2002 05:44 AM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by lance313:
Actually, it's a little better than Curse, though more limited as to when you can use it. It's for later in the game, but you can also move a counter from one of your own to another. This could help with Gold Berry (or Berry), Pokémon Center, attacks that are dependent on how many damage counters are on your active (Metwo's Juxtapose, Dodrio's Rage), moving damage from one of your Pokémon that would otherwise be knocked out next turn, etc.

The ruling has been clarified (you cannot move counters between different players' Pokémon), but if you want to discuss how this can be played strategically then let's do it.

I think what most of us are saying is that Gengar's power is too limited. It may move one and only one counter a turn, correct? And that is after your opponent has 3 prizes left. That seems kind of weak. If this is one of those "TPC says do it this way, so we do it this way" kind of things, or one of those "You have no idea how broken it becomes" kind of things, then its understandable. From my point of view, however, I am better off running the non-Dark weak version with the oh-so powerful LC ALakazam. The instant they evolve, I'll have access to their powers. WHile :C Gengar's isn't ,uch better (only move one of your opponent's damage counters per Gengar) LC Alakazam is so much better (move as many damage counters as you wish so long as you don't KO one of your own). Though EXP Gengar does have a nice attack, their are similar attacks in other Pokemon. Or even jsut other atacks that work well. I should try LC Jynx in such a deck (LC Alakazamm/Gengar). That might be interesting...

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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged


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