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Author Topic: Special Conditions Discussion

Member # 42359

posted June 27, 2003 05:39 PM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Prompted by the recent changes in core rules, I have been discussing the impact said changes haave had on both the the usefulness of the various Special Conditions. For example, one retreat per turn, in my opinion, should help them out a bit: while one can still retreat to shake something, but even if they have a free retreater, they have to wait a turn to reterat back up. Now, of course, one can use Trainers to bench a Pokemon, but people only play so many, and eventually they'll run out... plus in Unlimited, (assuming you play it with the Nintendo rules), you have things like Slowking and Dark Vileplume to deal with... Then there is the new rules for Confusion. Instead of a Poekmon attacking itself for 20, it now places 3 damage counters on itself, ignoring Weakness, Resistance, Metal Energy and most other effects. So, I am asking how useful do you find Special Conditions, what ones have been helped and hurt by the rules change, and under both new and old rules, rank them. Please explain your reasons for your opinions. Here's my opinion as an example:

I find them moderately useful, particularly when they are automatic. I will explain why when I rank them. As for how they have been affected by the changes, it varies depending on the stat. The one retreat per turn helps them all, but mostly the Poisons and Burn. It's no longer as easy to Switch or Retreat out of it: even with free retreaters, you need a Trainer to get your original active back up. If everything is powered-up, its an annoyance. If they aren't ready, or you have a retreat cost, or lack a Trainer to change out again, its much worse. Confusion comes out even in my opinion: placing three counters means more damage for everything that isn't weak to itself. Yes, it sad that a Confused Abra will no longer risk KOing itself, but it is nice that a Gligar and a heavily Metaled Steelix now can hurt themselves. As for being able to retreat w/o the flip, you run into similar problems as with Burn and the Poisons: they use up a retreat, a Trainer, and/or energy. If they don't retreat, you ahve a 50% chance of their attack failing and them hurting themselves... now do you know why they dropped the retreat flip? Finally, we come to the least affected Special Conditions: Paralysis and Sleep. They are basically unaffected.

Now, as for how useful I find them, I think its important to talk strategy: very rarely will defending win you a fight, battle, or war. In TCGs, they may if the opponent runs out of cards, or somehow hurts themselves, but still its rare. That being said, I feel Triple Poisoning to be the best followed by Double Poison, under the old WotC rules. Guaranteed extra damage unaffected by damage reducing effects and that gets around Focus Band. Third is a tie between normal Poison (guaranted offensive boost, gets around Focus Band) and Confusion (Both Offensive and Defensive, gets around Focus band, but flip based). Fourth is another tie: potential damage (that will get around Focus band) from Burn versus a "guaranteed" defensive delay from Paralysis. Sleep is last: a delay that has a 50% chance of not working isn't very useful, even when there is a very slight chance of it continuing for multiple turns. Under Nintendo rules, normal Poison edges out Confusion, but it is otherwise unchanged. Now, these all assume a 50% chance of working and against the same opponent. If we assume all are automatic, the Paralysis becomes best in both catagories: get up a prize, then stall. [Eek!]

I look forward to everyone's opinions, and will appreciate acutal experiences as well: I have gotten around Focus Band with all the Confusion and Poison, but not Burn. I haven't actually used them with the new rules yet.

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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Dark Llama
Member # 75434

posted June 27, 2003 06:59 PM      Profile for The Dark Llama   Email The Dark Llama    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
With the change to the retreating rule, it makes Team-Play Posion MUCH more powerful. Not only does the player that is Poisoned have to wait 4 turns before retreating/healing his Poke.. he can't simply retreat it for a Baby/Free Retreat and bring it back out.

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From: San Diego | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Member # 73689

posted June 27, 2003 09:15 PM      Profile for Porygone3      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Specal conditions have very little inpact if you play a 2 VS 2 battle. Unless your using the new pokemon that effect BOTH active with a specal conditon (I've seen posion for both and paralised for both, gee finaly confusion attack with no flip; but now confusion is wattered down) Any rate- oh big deal my one guy gets status I'll just use the other guy. In unlimmited rull debates go insain with the 2 on 2 battle. Look I have a ditto active what does it become??!! Any power that refers to "active Pokemon" I guess you would choose what one to use it on... but eh...
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From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged

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posted June 27, 2003 11:47 PM      Profile for NoPoke   Email NoPoke    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Since almost all pokemon since the neo-block have a retreat cost I don't think that the one retreat per turn will have a big impact on the post-wotc game.

With the current baby decks Double Gust has become almost as deadly as the original Gust of Wind. If Nintendo keeps the neo block initially then this change will reduce the power of double gust( no bad thing in my view). But not many of us expect neo to remain once Nintendo OP starts up.

I don't think that the single retreat per turn will have any significant impact on clearing special conditions. The change to confusion reduces the impact of that particular special condition which is again probably an improvement in the balance of the game.

So what impact will this rule change have? Overall I think it increases the amount of mental effort that players will have to expend to master the game at the higher levels. No more automatic promotion of a free-retreater when a prize is taken by your opponent. The order in which you use trainers powers and your one retreat per turn will become more significant.

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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
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posted June 28, 2003 01:03 AM      Profile for Prime   Email Prime    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
With the one retreat rule, people will be playing 4 switches in their decks. So maybe status effects won't be as powerful. There are still many switching tools and thus status effects will not really be as powerful as it was back then. We got warp point, warp energy, switch, scoop up, miracle berry, full heal energy, an that is just from LC up.

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From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged

Member # 42359

posted June 29, 2003 02:46 PM      Profile for Otaku   Email Otaku    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
As Prime brought up, and as many tohers have, there are many ways to switch out your Pokemon if the environment becomes "Eon". I have been avoiding spoierls, so I'll just ask this: what Pokemon Switching cards are there in EX and what ones will be coming out?

As for everyone playing 4 Switch, that sounds like status effects are quite potent. [Wink] Seriously, think: five turns of poisoning and you are in trouble. If you run 4 Switch, 4 Warp Point, etc. you probably will lose anyway: that's 8 cards of your deck dedicated to switching! Most people I see right now ahve 3/4 Double Gusts and 2/3 Switches. So either you lose something else that's important from your deck, or you have to sit and take it...

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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged

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