2008-1-21 Togikiss - GE 044/106
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pichu bros. rox
New Member
Togekiss is decent, but do you really want my honest opinion? It's not worth the effort.
Look back at the conflict between decks like Flygon and Metagross, between Blaziken and Gardevior. One theme has stayed true. Energy recycling is better than energy acceleration.
You could probably play Togikiss with Magmortar, and it might worth decently, but Typhlosion/Magmortar will always be better because it's engine can work throughout the entire game. With Togikiss, if you run out of energy, your engine stops.
Now, Togikiss can be played with other pokemon that might not use energy recycling as well, and that might work decently, but in the end, energy recycling will reign supreme in most cases.
LBS was different. It had energy acceleration on pokemon that did absurd amounts of damage. LBS could almost guarantee a KO every single turn with Pokemon like Steelix ex hitting any Pokemon for 100, Lugia ex hitting the active for 200, and Lati@s* hitting EXs and Stage 2s for 150. It was messed up and broken.
But in every other case, energy recycling has done better than energy acceleration. And I think that it will happen again.
Expect to see some decent ideas with Togikiss, but sooner or later a total backtrack to cards like Typhlosion.
Look back at the conflict between decks like Flygon and Metagross, between Blaziken and Gardevior. One theme has stayed true. Energy recycling is better than energy acceleration.
You could probably play Togikiss with Magmortar, and it might worth decently, but Typhlosion/Magmortar will always be better because it's engine can work throughout the entire game. With Togikiss, if you run out of energy, your engine stops.
Now, Togikiss can be played with other pokemon that might not use energy recycling as well, and that might work decently, but in the end, energy recycling will reign supreme in most cases.
LBS was different. It had energy acceleration on pokemon that did absurd amounts of damage. LBS could almost guarantee a KO every single turn with Pokemon like Steelix ex hitting any Pokemon for 100, Lugia ex hitting the active for 200, and Lati@s* hitting EXs and Stage 2s for 150. It was messed up and broken.
But in every other case, energy recycling has done better than energy acceleration. And I think that it will happen again.
Expect to see some decent ideas with Togikiss, but sooner or later a total backtrack to cards like Typhlosion.
This is the preview image that PUI has supplied. There is no better image right now.
pichu bros. rox
New Member
I was just putting it up so people could see it, but you updated it so fast 
master of puppets
New Member
i agree with prime.
its power is good but if you run outa energy in your deck then its useless.
but it would be amazing earliier in the game (assuming you get enough energy in those ten cards).
i think it will deffenatly end up being used, but it prooly wont be in the best decks around
its attack sucks, 3 for MAYBE 70, but it is boostable so theres always that chance of an early rare candy and boost (so you can use its power to power stuff up on the bench instead of itself)
8.5/10
its power is good but if you run outa energy in your deck then its useless.
but it would be amazing earliier in the game (assuming you get enough energy in those ten cards).
i think it will deffenatly end up being used, but it prooly wont be in the best decks around
its attack sucks, 3 for MAYBE 70, but it is boostable so theres always that chance of an early rare candy and boost (so you can use its power to power stuff up on the bench instead of itself)
8.5/10
Kabutops141
New Member
I like it alot. Maybe a 1-0-1 or 2-1-2 line in Magmortar.
The thing I don't like is you run out of NRG in your deck quickly.
Who knows how it'll do......
8/10
The thing I don't like is you run out of NRG in your deck quickly.
Who knows how it'll do......
8/10
Professor Elm
Active Member
This is an extremely nice card, especially for decks like Ape, Blissey, Magmortar etc. who can abuse the energy recursion.
Overall, it's only a tech at best.
I can't see any deck devoting more than a 2-1-2 line, and it really is surprisingly a hard card to use. Being a stage 2 doesn't make it any better either. But it could really shine, we gotta see what combos it can abuse.
Overall, it's only a tech at best.
I can't see any deck devoting more than a 2-1-2 line, and it really is surprisingly a hard card to use. Being a stage 2 doesn't make it any better either. But it could really shine, we gotta see what combos it can abuse.
Building up a Stage Two for a one use power means that power had better be awesome. Building up a Stage Two to accelerate energy once when you cannot control the ammount of energy you accelerate is not awesome. Its attack isn't good either. The best use i can see with this is against G&G, hitting a Holon WP and a Water means he can't be Sonic Bladed, so 4 prizes are needed for him.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not a fan.
6/10
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not a fan.
6/10
meganium45
Active Member
If the cards are what we think they are, then you will have thinned your deck using the Pachirisu/Phione open, and not have to dedicate a lot of resources to get this puppy out.
I think his true power has not come out yet, and he may make some decks a lot more viable than we anticipate.
Accelerating 4+ energy on the board in one turn with no drawback is just sick!
Anyone wish this was out with Lugia EX! Get 2+ powered or set in one turn!
Who can think of something like lugia EX in the game right now? Hmmm..
It is there...it is.
Vince
I think his true power has not come out yet, and he may make some decks a lot more viable than we anticipate.
Accelerating 4+ energy on the board in one turn with no drawback is just sick!
Anyone wish this was out with Lugia EX! Get 2+ powered or set in one turn!
Who can think of something like lugia EX in the game right now? Hmmm..
It is there...it is.
Vince
Regis_Neo
Moderator
Yay, first GE card review! Good thing too with prereleases only 2 weeks away.
Anyways, Togekiss is a great card if you can get it out early to mid game. It's Poke-Power, Serene Grace, lets you (once when you evolve Togekiss from your hand to the Pokemon) to pick up the top 10 cards of your deck, choose any Basic Energies you find and attach them to any of your Pokemon in any way you like. Then you put the other cards back onto your deck and shuffle. This is almost hands-down one of the best options for Energy acceleration in this format. On average, you'll usually find at least enough basic energy to power up one Pokemon completely (of course, this is all dependent on how many basic energy you play). Togekiss can be combined with just about any deck simply due to this Power, but two deck that definately takes advantage of this are Garchomp and Blissey. Garchomp, in particular, requires usually about 3 turns to power up with the correct energy. But with Togekiss, you have access to a possible flood of different energy types that you need. Blissey likes Togekiss for the obvious reason; its sole attack does more damage when there is more energy on her.
Stat-wise, Togekiss is average. 120 HP is solid for a Stage 2, +30 Weakness to Lightning could hurt is Electivire shows up, -20 Resistence to Fighting helps in Lucario match-ups, and 1 Retreat Cost is actually pretty cheap. Its attack, Air Scroll, deals a solid 40, but with a flip of Heads, can deal 70. And even if you flip Tails, then you heal 3 damage. So Togekiss is not just a one-time deal; it is actually quite a potent attacker and staller.
Modified - 9/10 (A good many decks will be using it for energy acceleration, and even those that don't will be tempted to try Togekiss)
Limited - 10/10 (If you can get this out and have some decent Pokemon on the bench, your opponent may as well just forfeit. Limited decks usually have lots of Energy in them, meaning you can usually power up most of your Pokemon in one go. Togekiss as an attacker is also great)
Unlimited - 3/10 (I think that if you can get it out quickly enough and get enough energy onto your Pokemon, SER won't hit you as hard)
Anyways, Togekiss is a great card if you can get it out early to mid game. It's Poke-Power, Serene Grace, lets you (once when you evolve Togekiss from your hand to the Pokemon) to pick up the top 10 cards of your deck, choose any Basic Energies you find and attach them to any of your Pokemon in any way you like. Then you put the other cards back onto your deck and shuffle. This is almost hands-down one of the best options for Energy acceleration in this format. On average, you'll usually find at least enough basic energy to power up one Pokemon completely (of course, this is all dependent on how many basic energy you play). Togekiss can be combined with just about any deck simply due to this Power, but two deck that definately takes advantage of this are Garchomp and Blissey. Garchomp, in particular, requires usually about 3 turns to power up with the correct energy. But with Togekiss, you have access to a possible flood of different energy types that you need. Blissey likes Togekiss for the obvious reason; its sole attack does more damage when there is more energy on her.
Stat-wise, Togekiss is average. 120 HP is solid for a Stage 2, +30 Weakness to Lightning could hurt is Electivire shows up, -20 Resistence to Fighting helps in Lucario match-ups, and 1 Retreat Cost is actually pretty cheap. Its attack, Air Scroll, deals a solid 40, but with a flip of Heads, can deal 70. And even if you flip Tails, then you heal 3 damage. So Togekiss is not just a one-time deal; it is actually quite a potent attacker and staller.
Modified - 9/10 (A good many decks will be using it for energy acceleration, and even those that don't will be tempted to try Togekiss)
Limited - 10/10 (If you can get this out and have some decent Pokemon on the bench, your opponent may as well just forfeit. Limited decks usually have lots of Energy in them, meaning you can usually power up most of your Pokemon in one go. Togekiss as an attacker is also great)
Unlimited - 3/10 (I think that if you can get it out quickly enough and get enough energy onto your Pokemon, SER won't hit you as hard)
Yeay Togakiss the Final form of Togipee!
It can survive most pokemon in the current format except its a stage 2 with a basic that is small. Resistance to fighting makes it take control of Gallade and Lucario which those 2 are still big. Is strong to Flygon ex and Garchomp two problems with Type use and advantages that they might try.
The pokepower stands out in a crowd, just by evolving you get a chance to look at the top ten (not as good as a t1 Holon Lass) and spread it through out play. Energy is good in almost any deck that needs energy (The only ones I know that doesn't is Mynx which is deck and Dark Kadabra/Alakazam. The attack is *** for 40+ a 50/50 chance to heal or do an extra 30.
1 Energy to retreat meaning that if it gets pulled up it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to retreat.
Possible Teamates:
Blissey
Garchomp
Darkrai lv X/Sneasle (Neo)
Modified 8/10
Limited If you can get it out 10/10
Unlimited 5/10 Isn't passing but still pretty good When you can use Surprize Time Machine you can use the effect 8+ times if you wanted
It can survive most pokemon in the current format except its a stage 2 with a basic that is small. Resistance to fighting makes it take control of Gallade and Lucario which those 2 are still big. Is strong to Flygon ex and Garchomp two problems with Type use and advantages that they might try.
The pokepower stands out in a crowd, just by evolving you get a chance to look at the top ten (not as good as a t1 Holon Lass) and spread it through out play. Energy is good in almost any deck that needs energy (The only ones I know that doesn't is Mynx which is deck and Dark Kadabra/Alakazam. The attack is *** for 40+ a 50/50 chance to heal or do an extra 30.
1 Energy to retreat meaning that if it gets pulled up it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to retreat.
Possible Teamates:
Blissey
Garchomp
Darkrai lv X/Sneasle (Neo)
Modified 8/10
Limited If you can get it out 10/10
Unlimited 5/10 Isn't passing but still pretty good When you can use Surprize Time Machine you can use the effect 8+ times if you wanted
charmander rox
New Member
Only good if you have someone who discards lots of Energy for broken amount of Energy. Might go good with Charizard, but only if you play it with some bizarre number of [R] Energy.
The_Lurb
New Member
This card is very neat. As said before this thing can easily pile enough energy to get one or even two of your pokemon ready to attack immediately. Unfortunately Typhlosion is far superior to this card(in Magmortar at least) since it continuosly supplies energy, has a better attack, and isn't luck based at all. It also slows things like blissey down because you have to have rare candy, provides another bad start, etc. Honestly I think this card was printed in the wrong format, you all can probably see why. I do see one card in GE it could work reasonably well with though.
Pidgeotto Trainer
New Member
This card brings so many options to the format, since it can energy accelerate any type. Firestarter has been really the only versatile energy acceleration power (and look, it became one of the best two decks). Psy Shadow, the new Blastoise, Swampert ex all have bad costs. Vire only attaches to itself. Deltas aren't powerful enough to make Flygon d good. The effective loss of Flygon d, and Metagross dx and Meganium ex using Holon's Castform made very few setup deck options this format. Togekiss could change that.
Phazon Elite
New Member
Well......don't expect to get 5+ Basic Energies consistently.
Using ultra-idiot statistics, the average deck runs around 12 to 15 Basic Energies, which comes out to 1/5 or 1/4 of the deck being Basic Energies. So, since any sample of the deck is expected to be 1/5 to 1/4 Basic Energies (we know the population proportion, so the sample proportion is expected to be the same), one could predict that a sample of 10 cards would hold 2-2.5 Basic energies on average (this excludes stuff like Scott or Castaway, which would make Energies easier or more difficult to grab with Togekiss).
So, in effect, many people want to put a Togekiss line in their decks when the first Togekiss should get only 2 Basic Energies. Also note that as you take Energies out of your deck, it will be harder for successive Togekisses to get as much or any Energy unless you fish out 5 non-Basic-Energies for every Basic Energy you get (doing so will keep the Energy/non-Energy ratio the same in the average 12-Basic-Energy deck).
I could see Togekiss being used with the Fishing Engine (loads of deck-thinning Trainers and Balls), as one could eventually get it down to the point where the deck would be fairly well-stocked with energies. But personally, I don't know if I want to tech a 1-0-1 line in my deck just so I can grab two Basic Energies once and then have it sit there and look cute all game (because, let's face it, most people won't start smacking the Togekiss around, which would allow you to Night Maintenance-Celio it out again, unless you send it up to die).
In other words, Togekiss is as overhyped as Blissey ex was back in Unseen Forces: everyone talked about it, but nobody really made it work outside of a tech (and Blissey ex's power was better than Togekiss', anyway).
Edit: Also note that Togekiss only gets BASIC Energies. It's a sucky Holon Lass.
Edit edit: Of course, if you're playing in a pre-release and you pull this, you win. This thing owns prereleases.
Using ultra-idiot statistics, the average deck runs around 12 to 15 Basic Energies, which comes out to 1/5 or 1/4 of the deck being Basic Energies. So, since any sample of the deck is expected to be 1/5 to 1/4 Basic Energies (we know the population proportion, so the sample proportion is expected to be the same), one could predict that a sample of 10 cards would hold 2-2.5 Basic energies on average (this excludes stuff like Scott or Castaway, which would make Energies easier or more difficult to grab with Togekiss).
So, in effect, many people want to put a Togekiss line in their decks when the first Togekiss should get only 2 Basic Energies. Also note that as you take Energies out of your deck, it will be harder for successive Togekisses to get as much or any Energy unless you fish out 5 non-Basic-Energies for every Basic Energy you get (doing so will keep the Energy/non-Energy ratio the same in the average 12-Basic-Energy deck).
I could see Togekiss being used with the Fishing Engine (loads of deck-thinning Trainers and Balls), as one could eventually get it down to the point where the deck would be fairly well-stocked with energies. But personally, I don't know if I want to tech a 1-0-1 line in my deck just so I can grab two Basic Energies once and then have it sit there and look cute all game (because, let's face it, most people won't start smacking the Togekiss around, which would allow you to Night Maintenance-Celio it out again, unless you send it up to die).
In other words, Togekiss is as overhyped as Blissey ex was back in Unseen Forces: everyone talked about it, but nobody really made it work outside of a tech (and Blissey ex's power was better than Togekiss', anyway).
Edit: Also note that Togekiss only gets BASIC Energies. It's a sucky Holon Lass.
Edit edit: Of course, if you're playing in a pre-release and you pull this, you win. This thing owns prereleases.
Master_Whiscash_77
New Member
Let Fire Fall
New Member
A Togikiss deck is going to run 17-18 energy. It would be a horrible call to only run 12-15.
I can see a deck using Togikiss deck using like a 4-3-4 Togikiss, 3 Latios, Phione and Pachirisu, and a tech Catty ex line to upstream all the energy back after for late game re-using. Seems decent to me. Maybe another attacker.
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