Japan's time called procedure... why not that way here?

[BJJ763]

Of course you do realize:

Judge "That is time everybody."
Player A: "Still my turn, i OK your Active."
Player B: "I get one more turn, i KO your Active. Tie game! Oh wait...."
Player A: "Since we're tied next prize wins......KO. "

 

[Tego]

I only wonder why nobody did find out about that earlier?

The thing is that I've never attended a Japanese Battle Road, the only real "Premier Event" here, where I could have gotten the chance to observe such rulings and judge calls.

I missed Battle Road Summer 2006 because I arrived one week too late in Japan, then during Battle Road Spring 2007 I only went to one event, Battle Road Hiroshima, where Nanimonoka and I arrived too late and only got to participate in side events. Right now I'm at the end of a one-year stay in Japan, and should have gotten the chance to experience lots of them. But I missed the summer 2007 one by arriving too late in the country (again), then missed the April Battle Roads because I went to a short trip to Norway, and when I came back and was ready for the first three Japanese Battle Roads of my life, all three I was planning to go to got cancelled. >.> I could have attended the Summer Battle Roads right now, in July, but they've been cancelled too.

Small, local tournaments don't have time limits nor judges, so I couldn't get a chance to learn about this rule earlier.

So yes, fate obviously doesn't want me to experience how it's like to attend a real BR event in Japan and give my impressions to these forums afterwards ... Thanks to people like S-Royal who give me their impressions for me to share with everyone.

 

[dogma]

If you think about it though, we can't have exactly what Japan does all the time due to stuff like movie releases coinciding with particular sets(promos too for that matter).Not to mention they distribute certain things a lot differently than how ts done here. They have(had?) a reward system where you could turn in points for certain rare cards and quick construction packs and what-not. These have to be introduced creatively into the US like secret rares(TSD) or make entirely new sets(Emerald).

Additionally we might as well not be under one big organized play, it would be too much trouble and the people in charge of PUI would still run everything in the USA in the long run I think.

You raise some good points here. However, these only point to why the system will be hard to change now. Multiple releases (or near-multiple) releases are not particularly difficult if that's what you plan for. More on this below.

Oh, and PUI are indeed 'creative' when it comes to getting us a load of the cards we wouldn't have got under WotC. But there is no actual creativity in their release schedule at all. Look at the Japanese product line and then ours. They have to be doing something insane for there not to be a fat profit margin on PUI's activities.

Thats extremely hard to dual release those things in two different countries, and they would lose a lot of money on the potential customers lost because they couldn't put the film or pokemon cards out fast enough.

In short: not cost effective ,they lose money doing this.

Things are running quite well in my opinion. A lot of these suggestions aren't even realistic if you try to understand why they aren't already doing what is suggested.

No... you're making the assumption that many others make about Pokémon, in that kids are fickle, and if it's not in their faces constantly, they will eventually get bored of it.

DP is supposed to be a resurgence for Pokémon. Last year it was the best selling TCG (according to IKv2 if I'm not mistaken).

There are indeed some things which will be hard to release simultaneously everywhere - the movies is a good example. But given the fact that the movies are nowhere near as popular outside of Japan, product tie-ins can be done differently.

In business-speak: the synergies produced after rationalising the product line-up reduce operating costs and increase efficiency.

Normally: Yes there's going to be a period of difficult change. But in the long run, it's a win-win situation for the PUI and PCL systems to become one.

I will try, Different OP system are not really the problem because they are running independent from each other (and most likely because there are no players hopping from Japan OP to USA OP, except Eskill LOL
Different formats, well that's something I also never got. Why are our sets rotated so fast? Oke I can understand it takes a few weeks to translate a brand new set, but we had 1 release at the same time as Japan. Most likely it has to do with schedules of other parts of the Pokemon Brand. If the video games are not released (who contain XX new Pokemon) we also won't get the cards with that pokemon.
About the difference in timing/products and Promo cards, I prefer to think somebody at PUI says "this we don't need, this we need" and that's why we do or don't get some items/cards.

I'm not sure I completely understand this point of view. Formats and OP are so inter-linked, I cannot see how you can be OK with one and not the other. If you mean tournament structures are fine outside of Japan, why do so many complain about K-values? It just seems weird that Japan gets special (preferential?) treatment, and as far as I can see, it is only because the game is happens to be created there. Pokémon is a global phenomenon, not a Japanese one. There should be one system.

Let's say the Japanese headquarter isn't really about GLOBAL thinking, just look at the release of the video games and you will know what I mean.

LOL actually I don't know what you mean, I've only ever played Red/Blue and dabbled in the rest. I actually find the games too repetitive, cannpt be bothered with levelling up over and over again!

But yes, global ambitions is not the same as global thinking. I keep thinking there must be a reason why PCL, PUI and the greater Pokémon Company is structured in the way it is... but I can't see it.

Yes there is, we had game rulings adjusted once we as Player or POP or TC found out Japan used a different way/mechanic/ruling. But most times this occured during/before Worlds when both parties meet. Or when people as Rya translate new sets and point on differences.

And why on earth is this our responsibility? This is what POP should be doing and communicating with us!

I don't think the USA OP system is inferior, it's different and designed for another public. Also (and I know some people will not be happy when I say this) OP is only there because it's a kind of sales mechanic. It's not designed for the players, it's designed to boost sales by having players using product. The OP team will do what they can to make it good for the players, but if it was only for the players their team would contain much more people. They have to show that their budget is worth it by raising sales. A very fragile/difficult position imo.
For example if rotating sets much faster as Japan makes money, they will rotate, no matter what players think about that. the game will survive with a larger format (so cards can be used longer) but will the sales numbers??

You're right about OP being a sales mechanic. It shows newer players that this is something you can enjoy with other people, and win prizes. Who doesn't like to win stuff whilst having fun?

It's not a particularly fragile balance between OP and sales, however. This is because most sales are not by competitive players. They are from the little kids who make their parents buy a pack or two each time they are in a supermarket. The impact of a format change on their sales is probably small.

As collector I never liked the differences, Being in Europe makes that feeling even worse. We have almost no access to Japanese material and on top of that most English Promocards aren't even released here.

TBH, a lot of my ranting is a combination of:

- Seeing the Japanese promo cards and products diverge a lot from outside Japan again.

In general, PUI have done a really good job of getting us somewhat near the Japanese card line-up. But they should still be going further

- Seeing how games like M:TG can make changes and explain to their fans why they make decisions, and wondering why the same can't be true of Pokémon.

Occam's razor (sometimes spelled Ockham's razor) is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae ("law of parsimony" or "law of succinctness"): "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem", roughly translated as "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".

This is often paraphrased as "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as an heuristic maxim (rule of thumb) that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity, often or especially in scientific theories.

There you go Lia! The principle of Occam's Razor.

Keith

That was very interesting, I actually didn't know that the maxim was not the actual concept. Cheers!

The thing is that I've never attended a Japanese Battle Road, the only real "Premier Event" here, where I could have gotten the chance to observe such rulings and judge calls.

I missed Battle Road Summer 2006 because I arrived one week too late in Japan, then during Battle Road Spring 2007 I only went to one event, Battle Road Hiroshima, where Nanimonoka and I arrived too late and only got to participate in side events. Right now I'm at the end of a one-year stay in Japan, and should have gotten the chance to experience lots of them. But I missed the summer 2007 one by arriving too late in the country (again), then missed the April Battle Roads because I went to a short trip to Norway, and when I came back and was ready for the first three Japanese Battle Roads of my life, all three I was planning to go to got cancelled. >.> I could have attended the Summer Battle Roads right now, in July, but they've been cancelled too.

Small, local tournaments don't have time limits nor judges, so I couldn't get a chance to learn about this rule earlier.

So yes, fate obviously doesn't want me to experience how it's like to attend a real BR event in Japan and give my impressions to these forums afterwards ... Thanks to people like S-Royal who give me their impressions for me to share with everyone.

Tego, it's not your fault we didn't find out about this sooner. I really enjoy reading your posts and info about the Japanese scene, and I don't even play. Hope you have more opportunities to report.

 

[ColdFire64]

I'm all for the rule. As for time in general however, luckily there's another thread for that junky rule I've left my opinion on. Back to topic here, there seem to be a lot of inconsistencies between our rules and Japan's rules. And for what reason(s) give us in the USA from being different than the Japanese who created the video games, cartoons, and tcg to begin with?? We should be universal in Japan's rules, and hopefully we can eventually be universal as far as TCG product being released simultaneously in both countries (like that one set I forgot the name of that was released here and in Japan at the same time, TRR?)...

Although time ending while you are still in a game is a big pain in the rear, I think our rules not being universal with Japan's rules is even more frustrating for us players.... JMHO

 

[ColdCoates90]

dogma- I think you underestimate how hard it is to release something in several different languages at the same time. Also you missed my point on that.Time spent on the actual production of the cards is time that could have otherwise have been spent on having the product on sale already and bringing in a cash flow.

Btw the movie tie-ins I would guess are pretty huge outside of the tcg playing group, this definitely boosts sales.

I don't see any reasonable way of synching Japan with America if either side is to not lose any money on the whole deal.

BJJ- the more turns, the more legitimate a match is. This game wasn't intended for time limits. Every extra turn given is that much closer to the actual outcome of the match if it were untimed.

JMO

 

[Rainbowgym]

The thing is that I've never attended a Japanese Battle Road, the only real "Premier Event" here, where I could have gotten the chance to observe such rulings and judge calls.

I missed Battle Road Summer 2006 because I arrived one week too late in Japan, then during Battle Road Spring 2007 I only went to one event, Battle Road Hiroshima, where Nanimonoka and I arrived too late and only got to participate in side events. Right now I'm at the end of a one-year stay in Japan, and should have gotten the chance to experience lots of them. But I missed the summer 2007 one by arriving too late in the country (again), then missed the April Battle Roads because I went to a short trip to Norway, and when I came back and was ready for the first three Japanese Battle Roads of my life, all three I was planning to go to got cancelled. >.> I could have attended the Summer Battle Roads right now, in July, but they've been cancelled too.

Small, local tournaments don't have time limits nor judges, so I couldn't get a chance to learn about this rule earlier.

So yes, fate obviously doesn't want me to experience how it's like to attend a real BR event in Japan and give my impressions to these forums afterwards ... Thanks to people like S-Royal who give me their impressions for me to share with everyone.

Eskill, I will never ever blame you, sorry if you got that impression.
I am already happy you "caught" this one, it's a very interesting difference.
I only wondered because we did had 4 World Championships and somehow this +1 turn thing wasn't brought up?

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

I'm not sure I completely understand this point of view. Formats and OP are so inter-linked, I cannot see how you can be OK with one and not the other. If you mean tournament structures are fine outside of Japan, why do so many complain about K-values? It just seems weird that Japan gets special (preferential?) treatment, and as far as I can see, it is only because the game is happens to be created there. Pokémon is a global phenomenon, not a Japanese one. There should be one system.

The connection between OP and Format are tiny.
Organized Play is about how many, which way and were players learn/play the game.
The format you have to play (so which sets to use) is only a small part of it.
I really don't know if the Japanese OP (tournament structure) is better, but keep in mind Japan only covers Japan and POP USA covers 30 countries.
Perhaps the Japanese players would even like OUR OP more.
And why people complain about K-values, mainly because we didn't have them in the past and the North American players had a much easier way to get into Worlds ( in regards to the rest of the participating OP countries). Also the K-Values of 2007 were a bit unbalanced.

LOL actually I don't know what you mean, I've only ever played Red/Blue and dabbled in the rest. I actually find the games too repetitive, cannpt be bothered with levelling up over and over again!

But yes, global ambitions is not the same as global thinking. I keep thinking there must be a reason why PCL, PUI and the greater Pokémon Company is structured in the way it is... but I can't see it.

If a game is release in Japan it takes months to release it in NA and than another few months before it gets to Europe. I can understand it takes time to translate thing from Japanese to English, but any translation from Japanese to German/French whatever can be done in the same time. And still this is not happening.

And why on earth is this our responsibility? This is what POP should be doing and communicating with us!

Nope, only the playersfield became so advanced and large during the years, they started looking more closely to translations etc. It's the curse of internet. 10 Years ago there was not much interaction between players worldwide (however there was Psylum). Computer usage grow and people now have access to many sources.
I still can remember the days we had to get ANY information from our distributor. Did we get it NO.

But about this +1 ruling. I was testing against GG to see if it makes a difference and it does.
My old Magmortar deck even becomes playable again if there is + 1 turn.

 

[dogma]

dogma- I think you underestimate how hard it is to release something in several different languages at the same time. Also you missed my point on that.Time spent on the actual production of the cards is time that could have otherwise have been spent on having the product on sale already and bringing in a cash flow.

Btw the movie tie-ins I would guess are pretty huge outside of the tcg playing group, this definitely boosts sales.

I don't see any reasonable way of synching Japan with America if either side is to not lose any money on the whole deal.

JMO

I guess we disagree about whether the short term pain (which could be partially mitigated) is worth it. I just don't see why

- If in the long-run, everyone can have the same products (meaning the only costs outside of Japan are translation and distribution of product), and

- Because there are exactly the same products, structure, etc., it would mean less costs and hassle for EVERY product,

how that is bad for anybody.

One last thing - we keep talking about Pokémon as a global product etc. etc. etc. That is true. But at the end of the day, the TCG is just bits of cards.

There is no way that making and producing these bits of cards (and thus changing the way it is done) is particularly difficult.

Rainbowgym -

My point about formats and OP is two-fold:

- If we had the same format as Japan, there would be no moaning about GG because counters would be in the format already. There would be no complaining about time limits because... it came up because of GG! Most people are discussing it in the context of how it would harm GG!

- By definition, only people in OP care about formats. Outside of that, I am sure people on the kitchen table play with all their cards. And they need never know what the current format is - the format is a tournament rule, not a game one

Regarding the videogames: I have more sympathy (not enough, but more) about how hard it is to get a videogame released in multiple scenarios. Again, no one has ever understood why Nintendo has to release its European games so late after NA/Japan...

Regarding information: Lia, you have had to deal with rubbish TO, lack of info etc. etc. more than most (or you are just more vocal about it). Tell me - if you didn't have to because you knew what was going on and who to go to, wouldn't you want that system?

d

 

[Rainbowgym]

Rainbowgym -

My point about formats and OP is two-fold:

- If we had the same format as Japan, there would be no moaning about GG because counters would be in the format already. There would be no complaining about time limits because... it came up because of GG! Most people are discussing it in the context of how it would harm GG!

Well to be honest, even if we had the Japanese format, there would be moaning, it's simply in the nature of humans. But I agree GG would not being so much played. Because GG made more people realize the time limit is one of the points, but it's not the only point. It's the combination with game play.
I did play this season also tournaments with a 45 minutes best of 3 SWISS, and I won most games against GG in those.

- By definition, only people in OP care about formats. Outside of that, I am sure people on the kitchen table play with all their cards. And they need never know what the current format is - the format is a tournament rule, not a game one

Agreed but it looks to me PUI has the impression the sales are better if older sets are not sold anymore. I doubt it, but that's me.
I would already be happy if more people would know those cards are made to play a game.

Regarding the videogames: I have more sympathy (not enough, but more) about how hard it is to get a videogame released in multiple scenarios. Again, no one has ever understood why Nintendo has to release its European games so late after NA/Japan...

LOL let's say there is a man in an Ivory Tower somewere in Japan who says to do it that way.

Regarding information: Lia, you have had to deal with rubbish TO, lack of info etc. etc. more than most (or you are just more vocal about it). Tell me - if you didn't have to because you knew what was going on and who to go to, wouldn't you want that system?

Mmmmmm I am more vocal for sure, but I also did put a lot of time in finding out HOW things should go and why there are so much differences. Not that I did find an answer on all, but at least I tried to chance things.
But I don't understand the question, are you asking me if I want the Japanese system/stucture?
I can tell you I really don't know much about the Japanese system/structure so I could not answer such question. But from what I have seen it looks to me our amount/spread of tournaments is better.

d[/QUOTE]

 

[dogma]

Lia - no I was asking if you had the choice, would you take the system where you got answers, or the system you had to deal with, rubbish TO, no information, no support...

Things should be better. OK, the Japanese system is not perfect, but it is better than what we have (IMO... but I don't really play to know!)

 

[Absoltrainer]

You know I really do not understand why we are so different from japan rules wise. I get the set differences because the more sets rotated, the more money gained by the company, that makes perfect sense, but why are the rules and such set differently?

As long as we are on the subject of differences, how is the japanese ranking system? Is it the same as ours?

 

[Rainbowgym]

Lia - no I was asking if you had the choice, would you take the system where you got answers, or the system you had to deal with, rubbish TO, no information, no support...

Things should be better. OK, the Japanese system is not perfect, but it is better than what we have (IMO... but I don't really play to know!)

Dogma, there is a system where you get answers, it's called Pokemon Organized Play USA, they do run a website and that's covering a lot of potention questions.
I can find answers, I have internet and I can even ask questions.
The only problem in the past, was POP did put distributors in charge of OP, which is in some cases wrong.

I really don't know if the Japanese system is better. And even more important could that system be used Global?
Japan OP only has to cover Japan, but what if Japan has to cover all Pokemon playing Nations?
I would love to see the game rules being the same, and perhaps also the format.
But history will repeat and everytime a new generation of Pokemon is "made", you can count on it Europe will get delays in card distribution, have a different format etc.

Oke I found some information (translated by Tego) about the Japanese (new) Structure for Organized Play (tournaments)

Here's the new structure, according to the website:

* Tournaments will be held for the video games AND for the Trading Card Game at all levels, including Worlds - which now seems to be called "Pokémon World Championships", not the "Pokémon TCG World Championships".

* You can now only enter tournaments if you're a member of the (relatively) new Pokémon Daisuki Club (I Love Pokémon Club) and have a member's card Do I hear somebody thinking POP ID????

* The levels of tournaments is now:

1) Prefectural championships - one for each and every one of the 47 prefectures of Japan STP's one for each "state"
2) Regional Championships - these are held in 6 locations across the country, and thus basically seem to replace the Battle Road (or Winter Challenge) events Regionals like NA has
3) Japan Nationals Final tournament of the season for locals?
4) Worlds 2009


So what does this mean? The 47 prefectural championships is something very new and exciting. At the same time, Regionals and Nationals both seem to be invite-only, and are thus both reduced to small-sized events. The giant convention center hall style events now seems to be limited to casual events for beginners and younger players, while the road to Worlds has become tougher, more competitive and possibly bigger in attendance in total. (Having one tournament in every prefecture of Japan should raise the number of people competing for a spot in Worlds IMO, but it's only a guess).

Once again it seems like PCL has tackled challenges in a great way, and it will be exciting to observe the changes in Japan's tournament system with the new season starting in October.

To be honest, it looks to me the Japanese are going to introduce the Int (POP USA) Tournament structure. But without the BR and CC's we have.

 

[dogma]

You're right actually, that does sound a lot like the POP structure... we'll have to see how that turns out!

Except we still have a ridiculous format. Isn't there a development department in POP who tests the format they've arbitrarily imposed?

 

[Prime]

Remember that POP/PUI doesn't make the cards, they just translate and print them. There must be some group that decides on how to modify sets when they are modified, but I doubt there is a department that handles the format and tests it. TPC probably has a department like that for their format, but their format is different from ours. Expect to see better cards and a less broken format when Japan switches over to DP-on.

 

[bulbasnore]

So, everyone is OK with the person who went first also going last. I'm not saying that's an issue, I'm trying to check and see if it is going to be an issue for someone. Hmm?

The game rules are in the Rule Book (theme deck booklet seems more complete at the moment, but also
http://www.go-pokemon.com/tcg/howtoplay/rules.html
and
http://www.go-pokemon.com/op/strategy/rulebook.html ).

The tourney rules are in the 2007-2008 Pokemon Organized Play Tournament Rules document,
http://www.go-pokemon.com/op/tournaments/docs/2007-2008/Tournament_Rules.pdf .

There already is, as I expect we've all noticed, a huge emphasis on getting the actual game rules to match Japan.

As Tego notes, the local tourneys in JP play without time limits or judges, only the premiere events use them, so those admirable time + two attacks rules are 'Tourney Rules', too.

I think there is an appreciation in Japan of the good things in our tourney program and I also think very few people will want the International tourney rules synchronized to the Japanese ones... several members have pointed out things we'd all have 'issues' with ...

My point here is not really about which rules are which, but I mention it to speak to the larger point that the answer to our OP difficulties is not to synchronize everything from a certain set of rules in JP to International, but rather to take the good things that will also work here and bring them in.

For those few in this thread that might think our OP is terrible, missing the boat and willfully ignorant of the 'right' way to do things, i.e. the Japanese way, well, the OP folks don't need me as their apologist. However, I will say that you will be hard pressed to find a better crew of people for wanting to get it right, having good expertise and a ton of experience in getting it right, listening to player concerns (like this one) and making bold (but not reckless) changes to improve between every event, series and season.

 

[Rainbowgym]

So, everyone is OK with the person who went first also going last. I'm not saying that's an issue, I'm trying to check and see if it is going to be an issue for someone. Hmm?

It should not be an issue, it's happening already. The only "rule" who can chance that, would be a rule that each player has to take the same amount of turns.
On first thought, I feel that would even end up in more stalling and it's something very different as the +1 turn idea.

The game rules are in the Rule Book (theme deck booklet seems more complete at the moment, but also
http://www.go-pokemon.com/tcg/howtoplay/rules.html
and
http://www.go-pokemon.com/op/strategy/rulebook.html ).

The tourney rules are in the 2007-2008 Pokemon Organized Play Tournament Rules document,
http://www.go-pokemon.com/op/tournaments/docs/2007-2008/Tournament_Rules.pdf .

There already is, as I expect we've all noticed, a huge emphasis on getting the actual game rules to match Japan.

As Tego notes, the local tourneys in JP play without time limits or judges, only the premiere events use them, so those admirable time + two attacks rules are 'Tourney Rules', too.

I see this different. Normally games should be untimed, that's the way it's in the rulebook.
(see chapter on how you can win a game)
The time limit is in my opinion an adjusted Game rule, because the "common" ones are not really handy during tournaments.

I think there is an appreciation in Japan of the good things in our tourney program and I also think very few people will want the International tourney rules synchronized to the Japanese ones... several members have pointed out things we'd all have 'issues' with ...

My point here is not really about which rules are which, but I mention it to speak to the larger point that the answer to our OP difficulties is not to synchronize everything from a certain set of rules in JP to International, but rather to take the good things that will also work here and bring them in.

Good point, but what about this +1 ruling, is it a good thing?
So not only during this GG era, but in general.
And I wonder also why did the Japanese went with that +1 rule.

I am pretty sure there has been a TC meeting in the past were the issue was brought up:"what happens after time is called". And this was more about Yes or No apply "between turn effects".
Wasn't Japan asked to clarify this, and if yes why wasn't this +1 turn not mentioned from their side.

How is the communication with Japan? Does none of the TC member has contact with any of the PCL judges/translators??

 

[Scizor]

It'd be wonderful if this could be done for Worlds, but even moreso, the future. I support basically ANY and EVERY extension of the system that we have currently.

 

[yugioh duelist]

it should be like yugioh when time is called the active player finishes there turn and then plays 3 more turns combined then the winner after the 3rd time is the winner if its still tied they go to first prize

 

[JandPDS]

So, everyone is OK with the person who went first also going last. I'm not saying that's an issue, I'm trying to check and see if it is going to be an issue for someone. Hmm?

.

The Yugioh idea is interesting, but I am more interested in out end of game procedure being exactly the same as the way Japan, not just changing our procedure again to something different then Japan. The way we both begin a game of Pokemon is exactly the same so the way we end it should be that way too.

This is not about an equal amount of turns, it is about an equal opportunity to win. In Regionals I went 5-2 in Swiss play. I won 3 of those games by time being called on my turn and I bring Gardevoir X off the bench and bring down a Pokemon on my opponents bench to win the game. I know that in 2 of those games, if my opponent had one more turn they could have returned the KO to tie the game, and I do not think I would have won either of those sudden death situations.

In a game with no time limit the bring down move would have been suicide because I would have been killing something on the bench that was in no way a threat to me while I left my opponents active powered up pokemon undamaged. In a Game with no time limit the proper move would be to Hurt the active as much as possible so that I can hopefully KO it the following turn. But with the current Time called procedure it gives way to much of an advantage to the player who's turn it is when time is called.

This leads to silly stuff like going though to check Check your discard pile on successive turns, and doing a Pokepower, and or play a supporter just to eat the clock not because it is the correct call at that time. And shuffling four or five times when you go though your deck at the end of the game when you only shuffeled it one or two times at the start of the game. Heck I have even seen players go as far as to put an energy card on the active leave their hand there, pick it up again and put it on a benched, leave their hand there, and pick it up and put it back on the active and then go to retreat. keep their hand on the retreating pokemon, say they changed their mind put it back active and then play a switch.

With such a premium having a close game end when it is your turn there is way to much gamesmanship going on at the end of games. If it is known that when time is called you opponent will have one last chance that changes a lot. There was one game I played in Washington States two years ago, when tiem was called I was down 3 prizes to 4. Durring my opponets final turn he had no poemkon in play that had enough energy to attack. And he had two Lugias EX's on the bench with 80 Damage, and I had Cursed stone in play and a powered up undamaged Delta Crobat active (It could do 60 damage to any one poekmon that had damage on it) . One more turn and I take all 4 prizes. He was not horrible about it but he played a Cielos for a Pokemon that he did not need and went through his last 12 cards twice to find it. Retreated and played a Switch. Pefectly legal moves that did nothing but waste time. Then placed an energy on his active, still could not attack as it was the 2nd on a pokemon that needed 3 to attack, and was just about to pass when time was called.

So yes I have been on both sides of this time issue, and I feel that the current rules are not fair and leads to lots of unecessary moves being made at then end of the game just to eat the clock, as players check thier wathces to see how much more time they need to waste on a turn. Japan rule goes a lot tworards making the end of time situation much more equitable for both players, and the sooner we adopt it for our organized play the better.

 

[Lawman]

IMO the advantage is to both players bc they will both want time to end on their oppo, giving them the +1 turn. This will help ag'st the slow play that always pops up at the end of rounds at bigger tourneys. Can 14 Judges watch 40-50 matches in MAs at Nats in the last 5 mins? (thats 20% of the matches in a 500 player event). Anything that assists the Judges in the stalling/slow play issue is a plus.

Keith

 

[Rainbowgym]

To be honest, a +1 turn will not remove all stalling/slow play.
I really think you need +3 turns to achieve that.
But if I had the option between +1 turn or the current way, I would take the +1 option.