Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

First Turn Supporters

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skovtrold said:
Let people play all the T/S/S they want to t1, but during the first turn of the game, prevent alle effects of attacks (including damage) done to the defending pokemon. This way, no donks will occur (other than hoppip/ unown Q and 3 bats), and people can still use DG, impersonate, mimic w/e setup attacks you kids use these days..
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I suggested something like this a while ago, but added that, during that first player's first turn, NOTHING could be done to his opponent's Pokemon, whether by attack, Power, Trainer, etc. You could not play a card that affects the opponent's field in any way. Cards that affect the hand are fair game, though. Dunno how balanced that is in practice, though...
 
Not a bad idea... has some bugs, though, that people have already mentioned.

Either way, the point is that donks are totally ridiculous in this format and something needs to be done. In fact, I don't want to get off topic, but the general power creep has to go. I mean, Jumpluff can invariably hit 70 for 1 and almost always more! Donphan, 60 for 1. Kingdra, 60 for 1. I mean, seriously! Just earlier today, I was messing around and built my old Metanite. Upon playing some solitaire games with it, I realized how totally broken the Pokémon are in this format.

Donks are a huge problem, but so is the general increasing speed of the game. I like my creative setup decks. D:
 
so everyone complains because they get donked sometimes?

thats what this thread is about right?

honestly no one can think of a better solution to what they are doing now and that is why it continues to stay this way

just play the game and have fun!
 
travis3290 said:
so everyone complains because they get donked sometimes?

thats what this thread is about right?

honestly no one can think of a better solution to what they are doing now and that is why it continues to stay this way

just play the game and have fun!
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These all sound better than what we have now:


bullados said:
I suggested something like this a while ago, but added that, during that first player's first turn, NOTHING could be done to his opponent's Pokemon, whether by attack, Power, Trainer, etc. You could not play a card that affects the opponent's field in any way. Cards that affect the hand are fair game, though. Dunno how balanced that is in practice, though...
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Sabett said:
I like the idea of simply preventing damage from attacks, idk about the T/S/S on the first turn though, but the damage preventing clearly stops donks. Although, I'm afraid it eliminates donks, and is something the card developers don't want to do, it is an archetype.
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skovtrold said:
Let people play all the T/S/S they want to t1, but during the first turn of the game, prevent alle effects of attacks (including damage) done to the defending pokemon. This way, no donks will occur (other than hoppip/ unown Q and 3 bats), and people can still use DG, impersonate, mimic w/e setup attacks you kids use these days..
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I like Jay's idea a lot. Everyone's counter to it are citing situations that are even LESS rare than the ones we have going on now.
 
Chromecatz said:
I'd have to agree with this post :p
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I second this motion.

While Supporters turn one would be an interesting way to set it up, however, as said it just makes Sabledonk THE deck.
Only way they could prevent that would be by,
Allowing the player who goes first to play supporters, but not use powers.
 
Bolt said:
I like Jay's idea a lot. Everyone's counter to it are citing situations that are even LESS rare than the ones we have going on now.
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What's exactly rare about a sabeleye start with a pokemon collector, and dark energy in hand? Seems likely to me. Creating 1st turn bubbles solves everything.
 
travis3290 said:
player 2 still has an advantage :/
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Or, if we look at the examples I replied to you earlier with, you'll see that with creating walls between the two players initially we see that we're open to give players T/S/S support on their first turn without creating the dilemma of giving donk decks an even better chance of donking.
 
Yeah, but not as much, i really think this would be more balanced. And then you would actually hope for the win on the flip. If you win something, you should benefit from it, not suffer..
 
Both players only allowed to use a supporter on their first turn, but also Pokemon Fan Club back in the format.
I even don't know if that would make a big difference with Crobat G around.

More weird, not allow to attack both players in their first turn?
 
Rainbowgym said:
Both players only allowed to use a supporter on their first turn, but also Pokemon Fan Club back in the format.
I even don't know if that would make a big difference with Crobat G around.

More weird, not allow to attack both players in their first turn?
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As far as attacks are concerened I like bullados'es idea of not being able to touch the other player, but I think it should end at attacks, or just damage.
 
Isn't the purpose of Call Energy (a card that will still be legal next year) to prevent donks from happening? This card is seeing way too little play for how awesome it is, especially after reading recent tourney reports, lists posted in the deck help sub forum, etc.

With at least 13 basics in your deck plus 4 call energies, I don't see how someone can complain about donking being a HUGE issue.

You'll still get donked of course with terribad starts of hoppip/unownQ and nothing else, but hey, that's pokemon ;)
 
xcfrisco said:
Isn't the purpose of Call Energy (a card that will still be legal next year) to prevent donks from happening? This card is seeing way too little play for how awesome it is, especially after reading recent tourney reports, lists posted in the deck help sub forum, etc.

With at least 13 basics in your deck plus 4 call energies, I don't see how someone can complain about donking being a HUGE issue.

You'll still get donked of course with terribad starts of hoppip/unownQ and nothing else, but hey, that's pokemon ;)
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because it eats up necessary spaces, and it being colorless doesn't help either.

---------- Post added 06/14/2010 at 02:18 PM ----------

There's also the issue of going first being like a punishment, call energy also doesn't fix donks from when your opponent goes first.
 
Sabett said:
because it eats up necessary spaces, and it being colorless doesn't help either.
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Are you trying to say that Call energy hurts my non-donk matchups? I assume you deem it unnecessary.

What pokemon are completely reliant on non-colorless energy? In more detail, what pokemon archtype would be severly hindered by attaching a colorless energy T1 (and you go first of course) than attaching any other kind of energy? Donphan and the "need" to use heavy impact (LATE game typically) is the only one I can think of.

And in regards to being "necessary," I really enjoy going T1 and being able to have 3 pokemon in play that are all capable of evolving next turn. What deck doesn't love that kind of set-up?

Its really hard to have your cake and eat it too, is the sentiment that I'm getting in this thread. I do kind of like bullados idea though, if there already weren't a TON of counters to non-sableye donks. If sableye is the issue, then that's better saved for a different thread and discussion IMO.

**I just read your edit**

Which pokemon are reliably caapably of T1 donks? Maybe we should start a different topic where people bounce off ideas of how to counter things like Ambipom G and Sableye. And who plays more than one copy of Ambipom G in there decks :confused: (ie, how likely is T1 Ambipom G donks in our current metagame)
 
I'm not sure this would work either even though I like it. The best example I saw was the using collector for multiple bat + sableye pretty much any lone basic, that's automatically unbalanced imo.

Right now I'm past it, sometimes that's just how the game goes. Knock on wood I've only lost t1 once all year, sometimes that's just how the game was intended to be you can't beat that.

You wanna try to balance it? IMO no supporters either players 1st turn.(Player going first cannot use Trainer/Supporter Cards their first turn, Player going 2nd can't use Supporter cards on his/her first turn)

This would help a ton imo.
 
in the end balance is hard, nintendo found a solution they are happy with, and thats that. Donk decks are a genre, and it will happen.

just gotta let it go.
 
xcfrisco said:
Are you trying to say that Call energy hurts my non-donk matchups? I assume you deem it unnecessary.

What pokemon are completely reliant on non-colorless energy? In more detail, what pokemon archtype would be severly hindered by attaching a colorless energy T1 (and you go first of course) than attaching any other kind of energy? Donphan and the "need" to use heavy impact (LATE game typically) is the only one I can think of.

And in regards to being "necessary," I really enjoy going T1 and being able to have 3 pokemon in play that are all capable of evolving next turn. What deck doesn't love that kind of set-up?

Its really hard to have your cake and eat it too, is the sentiment that I'm getting in this thread. I do kind of luck bullados idea though, if there already weren't a TON of counters to non-sableye donks. If sableye is the issue, then that's better saved for a different thread and discussion IMO.

**I just read your edit**

Which pokemon are reliably caapably of T1 donks? Maybe we should start a different topic where people bounce off ideas of how to counter things like Ambipom G and Sableye.
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You assume it only eats up energy spots. SPs energy line is very thin, in which case they can't afford to take those energy out, which means they'll have to start looking at the other things in their deck to fit enough in. A consistent problem with the makeup of the game shouldn't be attempted to be solved through one card, it should be solved at the source. Call energy isnt going to make donking pokemon go away at all. Besides, it isn't always in hand, right? So it doesn't always work? My suggestion always works and eliminates donks.

Or we could talk on here about how those are viable and popular ways to win without your opponent being able to get a turn. I saw it happen in t2 BR the other day, and it wasn't his first time that day either. I don't see why you think it's some sort of niche thing going on, it's wide spread.

travis3290 said:
in the end balance is hard, nintendo found a solution they are happy with, and thats that. Donk decks are a genre, and it will happen.

just gotta let it go.
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The change wasn't that long ago, I don't think they've settled.
 
It's been suggested before (in other threads), but I think there is a lot of merit in letting each player choose one Pokemon from their deck as a starting Pokemon. Then they continue with set-up as per the current rules. At least that way players would have a much better chance of avoiding an unfortunate first turn donk, but it would not totally eliminate the possibility.
 
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