Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Judge Quality

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Leaf

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It seems to me that a lot of judges that judge higher level events such as nationals still don't know the correct rulings for a lot of things. I know that for other card games there are high qualifications for judges to be able to judge higher level events, but for Pokemon it seems all you have to do is be willing to judge. I've seen many examples of judges getting very obvious rulings wrong in events, which can be understandable sometimes, but not consistently.

Also I think judge behavior is an important thing that needs addressing. Two big examples of this are my top cut matches at states and nationals top 2 juniors. At states, my judges were saying things like "Just scoop, so we can all go home" and then they would start talking about yugioh and ignore my match completely. Also, in top 2 nats in juniors, when time was called and the judge said "We have a champion!" when Patrick still had the opprotunity to finish his turn. I felt like that was completely inappropriate.

So what do you guys think? How's the judge quality for higher level events and how could we improve it?

Also, please excuse any incoherency, as it's 2 AM and I'm tired.
 
There's been times I've heard a judge make a ruling while I was in a match close by and I had to intervene and tell him he was wrong. Kind of odd huh? Some judges are just too incompetent to be judges, while others are rude and have no social skills what so ever.
 
Leaf said:
It seems to me that a lot of judges that judge higher level events such as nationals still don't know the correct rulings for a lot of things.
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I was playing in a Modified Format side event at Nats, one of the ones that tested the 30-min + 3 turns, when I got into a disagreement with the judge about how attacks like Swift and Fastwave punch through Mewtwo lvX's Psybarrier because it had come up after a game involving Mewtwo lvX. The judge insisted that he was correct that it did not, while I continued to cite the card texts on each to support that it did. Players around us were confused. After a few minutes, I noticed another judge standing off in the distance and called him over to confirm the ruling and he supported me.

I was kind of annoyed that the judge did not know the ruling and was insistent that he was correct. However, I consider a ruling such as that one to be "higher level" so I could understand it being missed.

Leaf said:
At states, my judges were saying things like "Just scoop, so we can all go home" and then they would start talking about yugioh and ignore my match completely. Also, in top 2 nats in juniors, when time was called and the judge said "We have a champion!" when Patrick still had the opprotunity to finish his turn. I felt like that was completely inappropriate.
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Sounds like you should complain to the TO or PUI's Customer Service. The TO handles staff at the event. May I ask what state that event took place?
 
Not to whine, but it will probably come off that way so whatever. But in a way I completely agree with your statement. From my 11 years of experience I have come to known the pokemon rulings and judging to be painfully inconsistent. I have lost games and titles as well as some of my close friends on judging calls that we either had been told differently before or later find out the ruling to be incorrect. The pokemon judging definitely is a little lacking, though how fix it? The judges are simply volunteers and without them tournaments wouldn't be as doable. I personally think that there should not be an age minimum of 18. Very experienced players such as myself and even those younger understand the game extensively and better than most of the judges. As "TheGeneral" said he corrects judges every now and then. I recently just did this at one of the last spring battle roads and the judged then realized the correct call. So if there is a consistent, usable, and appropriate "fix/change" to this judging dilemma please keep me informed.
 
Can you not appeal to the Head Judge if you disagree with a ruling?

Also, we haven't had the best judges here.. it makes people weary of going to play =/
 
My friend appealed to the head judge on a large ruling at Regionals 08 I believe possibly 09 I forget, and the head judge called it costing my friend the game, and we later found out the the call was incorrect.
 
An incredible amount of judges are amazingly ignorant of the game. They just become judges because, well, it pays better than winning actually winning a tournament usually. Allowing younger players to judge would increase the quality of a lot of judging imo, because a lot of the 14-17 year old players who are extremely passionate about the game, will be most concerned about making good calls, etc. Especially since they've played, so they know what kinds of things to expect. Stalling, rulings similar to cards from past rotations, and things like that.
 
I believe the judge minimum age is 15, not 18. It's 18 if you want to be a Professor, but you can judge without being a Professor.

As a player and a judge I find it extremely annoying that this happens so often. There's really no excuse for consistent bad calls. Personally, I believe the best judges are the ones that also play competitively.

Maybe requiring that a judge be a Professor could help some, as it would mean they at least have to pass that test once a year. Though there are many competent judges under the age of 18.

I think the TOs of events need to be harder on their judges. Shadow them and make sure they're doing their job and making the correct calls. Don't do their job for them, but just watch them and teach them what they need to be doing.

Battle Roads and Cities could easily be run by just the TO being the judge, so these should be used (along with local tournaments) to train judges for bigger events. At small events like these the TO can easily shadow the judge and make sure things are running correctly. Remember, it's the TOs responsibility to have a competent staff, so as a TO, I feel like it rests on us to train our staff.

Because of this, I feel that a TO also has to be a competent judge. If you don't know how to play the game, you have no business being a TO.
 
Judging is a thankless job, those poor fools. >.< (Just Kidding guys.) But yes, it's a rough job, and it's not easy. At the
beginning, Pokemon is a very simple game. But the way the card's abilities and attacks intertwine can get extremely
complicated and messy. Not to mention the fact that sometimes the wording on these cards can be a little too vegue and
ultimatly changed by an eratta. This is why at major pokemon events, there are many judges, because there just can't be
100 judges in the world that know everything about the game, and are available to come to each major event.

If you feel a rule is being broken, or you are being wronged in some way, call a judge. if you are not sure the judge is correct,
apeal to the head judge. If that doesn't work, find another way to win. >.< The game is about having fun right? Sometimes
there is a piece of information you may not being getting, or understanding. But I've had opponenets complain about rulings
before, and do nothing but whine the entire match about it...who is having fun then?

Now there is a line, but normally, people who don't know how to play the game are not put in charge of premeir events. I,
myself, run premier events. When I have a question about a rulling, I look at the time the match is going, call a PTO on their
Cell (There is always one available when I'm running these events), and get the right rulling. Then I give them the ruling and
time extension if needed. The key is to be patient and understanding... (Even if they make the wrong call.) It happends, no
one is perfect. But these guys give a lot to pokemon...by VOLENTEERING. Keep giving them grief...and it won't help.

-Jason
:)dark::colorless:20)
 
The problem is, that even though we're volunteering, we're still expected to do our job correctly. Yes, it's my option to volunteer my time, but I'm potentially costing a player thousands of dollars if I'm not perfect in my calls.

Judging is not something that people should do lightly. If you're going to judge you better make sure that you are gonna make each call perfectly (even if that means consulting with another judge, either at the event or on the phone, or looking up a ruling in the compendium or some other resource). Of course not everyone is going to be perfect 100% of the time, but you need to walk into the event feeling like that's an easy possibility for you to do.

Yes these events are supposed to be fun, but they're also supposed to be correct. There's no fun in being wrongfully denied a win to a game.

The above "you" is the general "you", and not directed at Jason, but merely in response to his post.
 
Perhaps we should introduce Instant Replays as well? :p

But really, you can't count on all Judges to have the same knowledge, everyone looks at and interprets the attacks and effects differently and I'm sure most of them do their best to make consistent rulings. And it's not like you can't exactly just spring the compendium on them as well in the middle of a tournament. Really, the only recourse is to appeal to the HJ, and what he says is pretty much gold, whether you agree or not.
 
Regis_Neo said:
Perhaps we should introduce Instant Replays as well? :p

But really, you can't count on all Judges to have the same knowledge, everyone looks at and interprets the attacks and effects differently and I'm sure most of them do their best to make consistent rulings. And it's not like you can't exactly just spring the compendium on them as well in the middle of a tournament. Really, the only recourse is to appeal to the HJ, and what he says is pretty much gold, whether you agree or not.
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But what the HJ says should also be CORRECT. And why shouldn't judges have the compendium on them at a tournament? (hint: they should)
 
Every judge.. every single one... should be willing to consult to confirm a ruling.
No one is infallible. Being willing to confirm your own ruling by consulting resources and other judges is critical.

The correlary to this is that the judge should be willing to revise/reverse their ruling if that is what the resources show is correct.

I do both of these.
 
I didn't get to go to nats this year but last year i went and i was playing flygon so i attach a plus power to my flygon and i'm not sure but i think it was top 32 and the judge says plus power is a trainer so put it next to your Pokemon not attached to it so i just look at him and say "Can you please read me the 1st line of text in he card" so he says "Attach Pluspower to one of your Pokemon" he just throws th card at my flygon and walks away.:lol:
 
Mmmm...

There should be judge levels -_-

Level 1 for normal judges

Level 2 for experience judges and KNOW what they are doing

Level 3 for TOP TIER/GOD TIER judges that everyone knows is very supportive of the game and never mess it up.
 
never mess it up? Wow. I think we just reduced the Tier 3 count to zero with that.

"know what they are doing." All the bad calls are made by judges that "know" that they are right.

I do agree that some sort of level scheme would be good though it is much more likely to be about experience mentoring and team work than card rules knowledge.
 
There are a lot of different types of Judges. Some of them are in it for the reward, sad but true. Some of them are in it because they got bored of 'normal' playing. And then there are some like me that have been playing since Base Set (Minus a brief hiatus) and truly love the game. Saying 14-17 year olds should judge because they're more passionate about the game is flawed logic. I love this game. I love how it gets complicated and how games can and often do come down to a single card well played.

However, Judges are human. The compendium + normal rulebook + penalty guidelines + everything else is a lot to memorize. It's inevitable that they will get stuff wrong. For instance, at the last BRs, I was told by the HJ that special metal energies DID reduce the damage from things like Tyranitar's Power Claw. I didn't think it was right, but I went with the HJ's ruling. At the end, I found out it was wrong, that they didn't count. I know for a fact that there were at least 2 matches that would have had different outcomes had the metal energies been calculated in.

What do you do? You just have to accept that there are risks. Something I'd suggest is printing out the parts of the compendium that cover what's in your deck, so that if there is a question you can show it to the judge. May not always make a difference, but it's a start.

:p And just be glad we're not playing Yugioh. Some of those cards have 20+ pages of rulings and errata PER CARD.
 
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dude a judge allowed my opponent to power spray my fainting spell.

also with the three divisons they should have three head judges in each one so they can take care of the
problem
 
When I am designated HJ, whenever an appeal is made to me, I ask the floor judge that originally responded what has occured and what he/she feels is the correct fix as cited in the penalty guidelines. I then go to the table, tell both players that they will have a chance to say their side and start with the player that requested the judge (unless the judge saw an issue 1st). Once I have heard from all, asked Q's that I feel are needed to get all the info I can, I then step away to review the situation with the judge, consult the guidelines and any other resource, compedium included, and then make the call.

Are we perfect? No. That is like asking if the players ever screw up? Sure they do, otherwise, we wouldn't need Judges to fix their gaffes. As others have stated, an appeal to the HJ is your best recourse on site. Griping later online doesnt change the call. If you still believe an error was made, email OP and tell them. [email protected]

Keith
 
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