HGSS-on Top decks
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Master Entei
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Most builds seem to have 15 energy. You've got 10 Fire, which you discard, and 5 Ligthning which you don't. I usually load my RDL and Emboar with 2 of each, so I'll only discard 2 Fire. Could be enough.
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I'm talking about 10 fire energies, since that is what emboar can equip and fire energies get discared. I don't think you can use RDL or Reshiram more than 2 times without using retrieval. Thats 4 energies right there, not too mention if some of the fire energies were put in the lost zone with Lost Burn.
baby mario
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2 hits with Reshi and 1 with RDL = 4 Prizes at a cost of 6 Energy. You should still be able to Lost Burn for the other two.
this theorymon is just too good.
I could do it too. What will magneboar do against a T2 or T3 floatzel/blastoise?
Back on topic: It seems like there will be plenty of decks - both setup and speed varients of all types - that will be competitive. Guess it will take nationals results to really get a good indication.
I could do it too. What will magneboar do against a T2 or T3 floatzel/blastoise?
Back on topic: It seems like there will be plenty of decks - both setup and speed varients of all types - that will be competitive. Guess it will take nationals results to really get a good indication.
True if they knock out my pokemon. RDL will more than likely be able to but MagneGatr has multiple pokemon with 140+ hp.
---------- Post added 06/05/2011 at 09:28 PM ----------
I'm talking about Magneboar vs Magnegatr and how they are literally the same deck. However a lot of people think Magneboar is a ton better which i disagree with. Also all they have to do is either stall with cleffa until they get out a magnezone and then it's game over for your blastoise and floatzel.
bullados
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MagneBoar is better than MagneGatr. Here is why...
1) It allows for a single turn reset on a Magnezone. Feraligatr does not allow for that.
2) It allows for multiple secondary and tertiary attackers, like RDL and like Reshiram and like the non-Ability Emboar.
3) Shuckle. Best draw card in the format. And any decent deck in the next format will run Seeker, so you get those energy back and put them exactly where you need them.
G8r's best partner in the next format is Blastoise (though there's debate as to whether Blastoise's best partner is G8r). Close seconds go to the non-Prime G8r (if you like spread and run LunaRock) and the ability Samurott. Both take advantage of Water energy being attached quickly and in mass quantities to Water Pokemon.
1) It allows for a single turn reset on a Magnezone. Feraligatr does not allow for that.
2) It allows for multiple secondary and tertiary attackers, like RDL and like Reshiram and like the non-Ability Emboar.
3) Shuckle. Best draw card in the format. And any decent deck in the next format will run Seeker, so you get those energy back and put them exactly where you need them.
G8r's best partner in the next format is Blastoise (though there's debate as to whether Blastoise's best partner is G8r). Close seconds go to the non-Prime G8r (if you like spread and run LunaRock) and the ability Samurott. Both take advantage of Water energy being attached quickly and in mass quantities to Water Pokemon.
I agree with this too, I don't know if Speed Zekrom is the way to go. I feel like Zekrom decks that have answers late game will be good.
---------- Post added 06/05/2011 at 10:32 PM ----------
You can do a single turn reset with Feraligatr too, just use energy switch like i said before.
I know of a few other good attackers that you can use in MagneGatr that are really good.
No one is using shuckle in Magneboar, no Magneboar decklist i have seen even has 1 in it.
---------- Post added 06/05/2011 at 11:39 PM ----------
Looking at the what won battle roads there are quite a few heartgold soul silver-on decks in there.
Swordfish1989
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I agree that MagneBoar is a force to be dealt with.. I played against it in BRs with my own MagneRock and barely beat it; it was extremely fast. However, it's fair to say that Gatr has a few more advantages:
1. Gatr has weakness to Grass, so Zekrom/Magnezone can't one shot it easily like Blastoise/Floatzel
2. Gatr can knock out Donphan in one shot with a pluspower (you could argue that RDL can do the same in MagneBoar though, and without the pluspower)
I still think Boar is better, but Gatr isn't completely crazy/bad for the partnership. May depend on your meta as well.
1. Gatr has weakness to Grass, so Zekrom/Magnezone can't one shot it easily like Blastoise/Floatzel
2. Gatr can knock out Donphan in one shot with a pluspower (you could argue that RDL can do the same in MagneBoar though, and without the pluspower)
I still think Boar is better, but Gatr isn't completely crazy/bad for the partnership. May depend on your meta as well.
Feraligatr Prime is by no means a bad partner for Magnezone, Emboar is just so much better. If you want Feraligatr to reach its full potential with Magnezone you need Energy Switch and PlusPower. Magnezone does not need PlusPower as it benefits more from extra energy, and Energy Switch is just a waste of space. I am tempted to try Feraligatr though, because of the favorable Donphan and Reshiram match-ups, but in the end I think Emboar will just be better.
I don't think Emboar is a ton better than Feraligatr but it is better don't get me wrong, however I think Feraligatr makes up for that by having a way better matchup against donphan, reshiboar or reshipholision. Which are expected to be really good decks next format. You guys really think plus powers are needed for Feraligatr?
bullados
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Energy Switch is an unsearchable TecH card. You're really going to run 4 of those? Nope. Are you really going to get your lone TecH unsearchable resetter when you need it when you can draw, at most, 5-6 cards in a turn? Likely not.
I won't discount G8r's abilities against Donphan and the various Fire decks out there. He's an easy one-shot against most things that have Water weakness with a PlusPower or a Spin Tail. However, that 4 colored energy attack cost is tough to deal with when you've only got roughly 10 Waters in the deck. Those 4-5 Electrics you run for Zone basically become dead draws.
However, I believe that the Emboar line is just as good against those decks because of stuff like RDL, Ram, and the non-Ability Boar, as well as (in the case of the Fire decks) Zone's own 1-shot abilities. Plus, colorless attack costs mean that Electric Energy actually become useful for non-Zone attackers.
I won't discount G8r's abilities against Donphan and the various Fire decks out there. He's an easy one-shot against most things that have Water weakness with a PlusPower or a Spin Tail. However, that 4 colored energy attack cost is tough to deal with when you've only got roughly 10 Waters in the deck. Those 4-5 Electrics you run for Zone basically become dead draws.
However, I believe that the Emboar line is just as good against those decks because of stuff like RDL, Ram, and the non-Ability Boar, as well as (in the case of the Fire decks) Zone's own 1-shot abilities. Plus, colorless attack costs mean that Electric Energy actually become useful for non-Zone attackers.
You don't need to search for energy switch you will either draw it of magnetic draw, or get it with cleffa the most you would need is 2-3. Also MagneBoar needs to run atleast 2 energy retreival if not good luck getting your attacks off.
You have other water attackers in the deck. That have colorless attack cost. You could say the same about this with only having 10 fire energies and attacking with RDL, Reshiram, and Non Ability Emboar
They don't hit for weakness in those matchups, so most likely your only one shot becomes RDL. Theres no saying what Donchamp can tech possibly Zoarak or Bouffalant. To take out your RDL.
JohnnyBlaze
New Member
Zorark and Bouffalant wont even have a chance to attack RDL, because a good RDL player will only use RDL to take the last 2 prizes of the game, to win the game right then and there!! If you are attacking with RDL early on you are not using RDL the right way.
Master Entei
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I wouldn't lock the big guy so exclusively on one task. While it is true that most of the time RDL is better of taking only the last 2 prizes, it can also be used to take away the opponent's big tank in one shot, or even to attack an opposing Cleffa if you see that the opponent doesn't have anything in play to get the return KO with. If you have the resources to take the last few prizes before your opponent does, use it even if you have more than 2 prizes left! It also helps the Lostgar matchup, as at least the Lostgars I've played haven't had anything that could KO the Legend. RDL is a very versatile and fun to use card. :lol:
I disagree with this. I have heard many people say he becomes a secondary attacker in other matchups. So saying someone who uses him early game is using him the wrong way is naive.
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MagneBoar and MagneGatr are almost identical decks.
MagneBoar Advantages:
1) It powers up Mangezone without any help from other cards.
2) It can use RDL, Emboar 19, and Reshiram.
MagneGatr Advantages:
1) If has access to Water Pokemon to OHKO Donphan Prime and anything Fire. All you need is 1 or 2 Alomomola in the deck. I find this to be big, because it allows you more flexibility in managing your energies.
MagneGatr gets around the one turn power up even better with Shaymin than with Energy Switch.
It would appear that MagneBoar is better, just ever so slightly. However, a great MagneGatr list with some creativity could easily be right there.
However, I am surprised that more people are not looking into adding in a 2-1-2 Magnezone Prime and 2 Rare Candy into a ZPS deck. You can still get the list very consistent to hit the early (turn two) Zekrom and then use Mangezone Prime as the big hitting finisher / draw power.
---------- Post added 06/06/2011 at 06:16 PM ----------
Cleffa wall does not help against Blastoise/Floatzel. They are sniping your bench. Also, the better lists I have seen run 2-3 Pokemon Reversal to drag up Emboar for the OHKO.
MagneBoar Advantages:
1) It powers up Mangezone without any help from other cards.
2) It can use RDL, Emboar 19, and Reshiram.
MagneGatr Advantages:
1) If has access to Water Pokemon to OHKO Donphan Prime and anything Fire. All you need is 1 or 2 Alomomola in the deck. I find this to be big, because it allows you more flexibility in managing your energies.
MagneGatr gets around the one turn power up even better with Shaymin than with Energy Switch.
It would appear that MagneBoar is better, just ever so slightly. However, a great MagneGatr list with some creativity could easily be right there.
However, I am surprised that more people are not looking into adding in a 2-1-2 Magnezone Prime and 2 Rare Candy into a ZPS deck. You can still get the list very consistent to hit the early (turn two) Zekrom and then use Mangezone Prime as the big hitting finisher / draw power.
---------- Post added 06/06/2011 at 06:16 PM ----------
Cleffa wall does not help against Blastoise/Floatzel. They are sniping your bench. Also, the better lists I have seen run 2-3 Pokemon Reversal to drag up Emboar for the OHKO.
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