The MECA of Tounaments... Keeping the doors open?

[EHLERZ5]

My main question is “WHY?”… It may have been asked many times already, but I’d really like to know what you good people think.

I come to you as more of a pokemon “fan”, rather than a player anymore. Due to my workload, unfortunately I don’t have the time to enjoy the game we love. I haven’t been to a tourney in a couple of years, but it doesn’t stop me from playing at home and following the gameplay and tournament results of the friends I’ve made across the USA and other countries over the years (especially the players from STL and the Classy “OldPokes” Veterans) .

I played the game pretty hard from 2007 through 2010, went to as many tournaments as my daughter and I could, including nationals each of those years, from Columbus to STL to Indy. AWESOME ENTERTAINMENT!!!! We played the game for “together time” and to hang out with some real nice people. The Poke Community -- from the parents, the players, and especially the people that bust their buns to set the events up, brought us into their group and treated us like family. It didn’t matter if we were even any good at the game, we still got shown the respect that everyone else got. I even soaked up enough knowledge to luck out in a couple tournaments and get my place in the sun.

US NATIONALS --- the Meca of Pokemon Tournaments. You can say Worlds to me (never been), but to see the pure volume of players in one place to play a card game, I still get a “WOW” feeling when I look at some of the pics I’ve taken in the past. In this one single tournament you get the following ---

You get to say you were part of the biggest tournament of the year, possibly the biggest EVER.
You get to face to face chat with some people that you only get to see at Nats every year.
You get to actually see the Big Names in the game that you never would otherwise, even better if you get to play against one, unreal feeling if the stars align and you can actually beat one.
You get to see the top tier judges and organizers do their thing so the rest of us can enjoy.
You get the swag (shirts/pins/cards) that your kids can flash to their friends.
You have unique side tournaments with great prizes, including Prof Cup, that you don’t get anywhere else.

Maybe my view towards this tournament is different than some of yours…. Maybe it’s not… I know once you get a taste of Nats --- you’re hooked for good!

Been reading a lot on here how the casual player, the relatively new player, and the player without many tournaments in their area don’t have enough participation points needed to play in this prestigious event. Rules are rules, and I understand the requirement was set in place way ahead of time, but it leaves me scratching my head…. They are leaving people that are willing to spend the money to get to the bash out of the big show. It’s not easy in today’s world to set aside the money required to get this kind of entertainment. Look at the recent poll entitled “Why Not Attend Nats?”… Cash is the biggest hang up. Has the tourney become too large that it needed to be reduced? Has the tourney tried to get rid of the lesser/casual player that does silly things like drop out of the tournament and ruins chances for others that got paired against them? I’m curious…. Simply put…

MY MAIN QUESTION IS ------WHY STOP THE OPEN DOOR TO ALL THAT WANT IN THE GREATEST TOURNEY OF THE YEAR?

Delete this post if it becomes an issue, it’s not intended for that... I’m an outsider looking in at this point, but I still love the game and plan a comeback next season… It's too late for a post like this to do any good now, but my heart goes out to some of these people that want to "PLAY!" this weekend...

 

[Prime]

TPCi tests out a lot of things. Just because it is like this this year, with this # requirement, doesn't mean next year will be the same with the same # requirement. It's good you're voicing your opinion, and I'm sure they'll take everyone's thoughts into consideration for next year and the years after.

 

[SD PokeMom]

There WILL be league and side events for those who do not participate in the main tourney...

 

[CeNturist]

There WILL be league and side events for those who do not participate in the main tourney...

That's not really a good argument.

"Sorry, you can't play in Nationals, but you CAN travel hundreds of miles to play side events."

Also, there wouldn't be much for people not playing to do anyways, considering everyone else is going to be playing in the main event. I don't think Play Point requirements are good for the health and growth of the game at all. Anyone who wants to play should be able to.

 

[Raen]

That's not really a good argument.

"Sorry, you can't play in Nationals, but you CAN travel hundreds of miles to play side events."

Also, there wouldn't be much for people not playing to do anyways, considering everyone else is going to be playing in the main event. I don't think Play Point requirements are good for the health and growth of the game at all. Anyone who wants to play should be able to.

I think it is a plenty good argument.

Honestly, most people who play in Nats or want to play in Nats are NOT very competitive and have no chance of winning the event. To those people, there really should be no difference between the side events and the main tournament (keep in mind, the main tourney is the ONLY part that has point requirements to play). In fact, a casual player will get more out of side events than out of the main tournament. There they have a chance at prizes, such as booster packs, and side events run constantly, all day, unlike the main event which does end earlier, and is over for all but 128 of us by Saturday. Side events, in reality, make up the bulk of the tournament for most people.

So, unless you are very, very good, just going to the tourney for the side events makes a lot of sense.

Also, to answer the question of "why a point requirement?", there are some very well known and oft said reasons for why that you could find if you looked around enough. Last year, the tournament started very late due to many people taking advantage of the free stuff for pre-registering, and many, many people not showing up to round 1. I don't remember how long we sat around, but it had to be close to an hour. That really, really messed up the tournament's schedule, and with an event that big that really isn't ok.

We've also had a slight problem (very slight), with people not playing all season, going to Nats, and qualifying for Worlds. No offense to those that have done that, but I'm not sure that is something that TPCi wants people to do. To TPCi, the more active a player is throughout the season, the better. The Play! Pointe requirement is a good incentive to get people to play more, which is that TPCi wants.

 

[Prime]

I can understand what CeNturist is saying. You're traveling to an event called the Pokemon National Championships. If it were called GenCon, or Origins, and the event wasn't named after the main event and solely based around the main event, it would be different.

I think someone could argue, why go at all? That's your choice, to choose to spend the money to travel to an event you know you can't participate in. It'd be like traveling to Worlds knowing you don't have an invite. Is it that wrong that the two highest prized events have requirements to play in? You have battle roads, city championships, state championships, regional championships, and pre-releases that are open to everyone. Is it that wrong to put requirements on the other two events? It is a common thing in other competitive games like Poker, Magic: The Gathering, etc.

But I think Nationals is more than just the main event. It's the biggest Pokemon event in the world. People want to travel to this event because of that aspect by itself, plus others. But I think that idea in itself doesn't force the idea that the player has to play in the main event. If Nationals is treated as a theme park, people traveling to it shouldn't feel bad if they can't ride on one ride, but then again, if the ride is the main attraction for the theme park, I could understand people feeling bad about it.

I think having the Professor Cup and VGC Championships at Nationals is a good thing, because it kind of spreads that focus among other things. Side events help, too. And in the past, people have held Mutant drafts on their own time. I think if the Mutant Draft could become an official event, pay-to-enter (for the packs), and was open to everyone, I could see Nationals becoming an invite-only or requirement-included event. Mutant Draft would become the event for those traveling to Nationals but unable to participate in that event.

 

[EHLERZ5]

the last two post sums up exactly what I was looking for in this post.... both sides of the table...

I've been to 4 Nats... I've had a blast each time... So I can give it straight from the Casual, yes - you can say non-competitive point of view... When I played did I have a chance of winning it all? Heck No! The last couple of years I did make it to 4-1 and 3-1 respectively before the wheels fell off and I played against people much more skilled at the game. The last year I got a win over someone in the USA top 20 in Maters points for that year. But THAT challenge is what drives a "Casual" to get better. But to be honest, the good, skilled, players don't really have to worry about people like me after a few rounds anyway right? They get moved to the better tables, while I see if my table number hits triple digits or not. But I'm good with that. A No pressure game against someone different from another state who I can introduce myself too and enjoy my afternoon. I've met several friends during these games that I still talk to today.

This TOURNAMENT, whether you are good or not, is what people are spending money to drive there for. I just think it should be available if you want it. Everyone, even down to the 5 year old league beginner supports this game... This Big Show is their Ultra award!

The side events and League Play at Nationals are incredible, my daughter and I have played in them every year. The Prizes are outstanding - they do give out a ton of free product at every Nats event. The organizers are good kid-friendly people, especially an older gentleman that ran league play. My daughter loved him and still talks about how nice he was when she runs accross an item she got from him during league play. If you're there for your Poke-fix, then absolutly play in as many events as you can before you leave... you won't regret it.... BUT ------

PRIME gets where I'm coming from... When I drive my 4 hours (which is chicken feed compared to the long hauls made by most), I'm coming to ride the Rollercoaster on the front page of the website... Not the other stuff I can ride at my local county fair.... It's just a gutwrench for me and something I was curious about... Thanks for your comments... :thumb:

 

[NoPoke]

The door isn't closed and barred . Anyone can earn their own key and play in the big event by participating in pokemon OP during the previous 8+ months.

 

[Prime]

I think it's interesting that someone could play in one event, a Regionals, and win, earn a cash stipend to travel to Nationals, and not be able to participate in the tournament because they don't have the 10 or whatever points that are needed.

 

[Rainbowgym]

Do you know how much time is waisted when people show up (and play) at a Nationals with a starterdeck they bought the day before.
Not knowing the rules of the game?

What are you supposed to do? Learn them to play while you are the opponent?

Sorry but those players need to start at a league and not at Nationals.
If it's to much to ask te got some (experience) points you should not even think about going to any big tournament.

 

[pokemaster1970]

It's a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. This isn't some tiny Battle Road Tournament or Cities event. Players prepare all year for the largest Pokemon Tournament in the World. And it's not that difficult to get the 10 PLAY points required to participate. If you can't get that few PLAY points, then you honestly don't need to be playing in the largest tournament of the year.
Besides, it doesn't seem to be hurting the tournament at all, since we have close to 1010 players in Masters alone, and over 1500 total players participating in the "Big Dance".
I think you need to find a different soapbox to stand on, because this is a prestigious tournament held once a year, not a free for all for any wanna be to come in and try something different. If players want the experience of a large tourny for the first time, States and Regionals are always available.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

It's a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. This isn't some tiny Battle Road Tournament or Cities event. Players prepare all year for the largest Pokemon Tournament in the World. And it's not that difficult to get the 10 PLAY points required to participate. If you can't get that few PLAY points, then you honestly don't need to be playing in the largest tournament of the year.
Besides, it doesn't seem to be hurting the tournament at all, since we have close to 1010 players in Masters alone, and over 1500 total players participating in the "Big Dance".
I think you need to find a different soapbox to stand on, because this is a prestigious tournament held once a year, not a free for all for any wanna be to come in and try something different. If players want the experience of a large tourny for the first time, States and Regionals are always available.

Just to be difficult, some State/Regional tournaments are as small or smaller than some Battle Roads. While I agree that 10 PP isn't a difficult hurdle, and does help eliminate some problems (while creating a whole set of new ones, I'll admit,) for some folks Nationals really is their best shot at a massive tournament. And even for players in the Northwest (or the other massive areas like Texas), it's 350 @ Regionals vs 1500 @ Nationals.

 

[chrataxe]

Seriously, 10 points is really, really easy to get. Even if you are having trouble actually making it to events to get the points, you can always talk to your local league leader and explain your situation as to why you aren't able to make it to league, I'm sure they will accommodate your situation and report you on their league roster. Plus, you only have to show up for 5 minutes ONCE per season, so even if they aren't willing to help, its hard to complain about not being able to play when you've made no effort what-so-ever to make Pokemon important to you all season long. I have three kids and often work 100 hour weeks and I find time to run a league and attend 10+ tournaments/year and I've never made the trip to Nats. So, sitting on the other side of the fence from OP, its hard to sympathize.

Additionally, EVERYONE needs to understand what Nats is. As pointed out, its the largest tournament of the year, and its the culmination of hard work for all players over the course of the season. This tournament is for THOSE guys. Its not for not for casual, I love the game, it would be fun, what a great place to start! kind of players. Nats is the reward for players that have played all year and are trying to get to Worlds. Now, I'm not trying to sound elitist, but its for THOSE players we as a playing community (and yes, this includes new/casual players) owe it to them to have a smooth, reasonable tournament.

 

[NoPoke]

...., you can always talk to your local league leader and explain your situation as to why you aren't able to make it to league, I'm sure they will accommodate your situation and report you on their league roster. .

hmmm. Not if they want to stay as a league they won't.

Does 5mins every 6 weeks count as participation ?

 

[Charizard3712]

I guess you can't please everyone...there are many reasons for the playpoint cap. So many people took advantage of the open door by having their parents or friends enter the event to get the shirt and then drop, this then causes delays in the tournament. If you didn't notice that the tournament ran really smooth this year.

 

[chrataxe]

hmmm. Not if they want to stay as a league they won't.

Does 5mins every 6 weeks count as participation ?

I find it hard to believe P!P is going to yank a league because one player that buys their product is asking a league leader for understanding. Then again, I could be wrong. But, if a player came to me, as a league leader, and was sincere and honest, I would do what I could to help him out. And, if my league got pulled for that, so be it. I thought that one of our roles was to be an ambassador to the game.

Why wouldn't it? They show up for 5 minutes, play one battle on their DS and leave. Its their prerogative, not mine. They did participate. They are rewarded for high levels of participation, not punished for low levels. The "punishment" is that they don't get their promos or pins. Being as that is the case, that is kind of my point of why I think it seems ridiculous that a league would be pulled as they both essentially have the same effect, yet one is ok, the other isn't.

 

[NoPoke]

I find it hard to believe P!P is going to yank a league because one player that buys their product is asking a league leader for understanding. Then again, I could be wrong. But, if a player came to me, as a league leader, and was sincere and honest, I would do what I could to help him out. And, if my league got pulled for that, so be it. I thought that one of our roles was to be an ambassador to the game.

Why wouldn't it? They show up for 5 minutes, play one battle on their DS and leave. Its their prerogative, not mine. They did participate. They are rewarded for high levels of participation, not punished for low levels. The "punishment" is that they don't get their promos or pins. Being as that is the case, that is kind of my point of why I think it seems ridiculous that a league would be pulled as they both essentially have the same effect, yet one is ok, the other isn't.

I expect that over reporting / misuse of supplied materials are the #1 and #2 reasons for leagues to get yanked.

There are wider issues than the Play!Points associated with these phantom league players: Reported players is the key figure for allocation of league materials. If a league reports high numbers due to the presence of phantom players then allocation gets skewed with the probable outcome that genuine players will be shorted materials. Now I'm not saying that no over reporting takes place now I expect that it does. Saying that such over reporting is acceptable though will doom league materials.

 

[Fantine]

I understand the argument of the players starting the game at Nationals but why not let the players who have participated in Nationals before or really was an active player in previous years play in it. Silly really.

 

[chrataxe]

I expect that over reporting / misuse of supplied materials are the #1 and #2 reasons for leagues to get yanked.

There are wider issues than the Play!Points associated with these phantom league players: Reported players is the key figure for allocation of league materials. If a league reports high numbers due to the presence of phantom players then allocation gets skewed with the probable outcome that genuine players will be shorted materials. Now I'm not saying that no over reporting takes place now I expect that it does. Saying that such over reporting is acceptable though will doom league materials.

I agree and can't argue that you are wrong. But, I wouldn't consider this "misuse" of anything. One thing to remember about report leagues, there is really good chance that reporting one extra person per league across the US will result in ZERO "extra" materials, due to the way the numbers for materials fall. If I report 14, I get 20. If I report 18, I get 20. Adding one to that doesn't skew anything.



On a different note, I just had a couple of questions that just popped into my head:

Was anyone denied entry into Nats this year because of a lack of points? (I mean, showed up to register and told no).

and

Does this mean you HAVE to have a registered account to play in Nats? Just curious...

 

[King Piplup]

I agree and can't argue that you are wrong. But, I wouldn't consider this "misuse" of anything. One thing to remember about report leagues, there is really good chance that reporting one extra person per league across the US will result in ZERO "extra" materials, due to the way the numbers for materials fall. If I report 14, I get 20. If I report 18, I get 20. Adding one to that doesn't skew anything.



On a different note, I just had a couple of questions that just popped into my head:

Was anyone denied entry into Nats this year because of a lack of points? (I mean, showed up to register and told no).

and

Does this mean you HAVE to have a registered account to play in Nats? Just curious...

On your questions....

Not sure that's a question that should be answered. If it happened, and that's publicized, it's likely to never happen again. Depends on your stance I suppose. I heard of both sides of the coin on that situation, but I'm not able to speak since I was not a witness....


As for your second question, it appeared an account was needed since that appeared to be how they printed the P! Point data.