Frozen City + DCE: 20 damage vs 40 damage?

[victini3000]

Frozen City + DCE: 20 damage or 40 damage?

 

[Raen]

This isn't the right section for this, but I'll answer it anyways.

Frozen City reads "Energy" not "Energy card", so it'd be 4 damage counters (different than regular damage).

 

[camerongira]

^ that but it might be erratad to help the confusion.

 

[Charranitar]

see both sides of the debate, but I don't see anyway it isn't 40 looking at past precedent.

Even though Rainbow Energy was treated as colorless in hand,it was still treated as Grass/Psychic at the point of attachment with Energy Signal. But at the same time, that ruling is inconsistent with special energy with deluge/inferno fandago.

 

[Raen]

see both sides of the debate, but I don't see anyway it isn't 40 looking at past precedent.

Even though Rainbow Energy was treated as colorless in hand,it was still treated as Grass/Psychic at the point of attachment with Energy Signal. But at the same time, that ruling is inconsistent with special energy with deluge/inferno fandago.

I don't see that as being inconsistent. Energy Signal checks the energy type right as it is attached - at this point, it is both Grass/Psychic, and all other types. However, Deluge and Inferno Fandango check as the card is in your hand. In other words, they basically say "IF you have a fire energy in you hand, THEN you can attach it with the ability." At the point the ability "checks" the energy, it is colorless.

 

[Kooper Koushiro]

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=174702
There's your precedent.

Q. If my opponent has Ampharos with "Electromagnetic Wall" in play, when I attach a Double Colorless Energy to one of my Pokemon, do I place 3 or 6 damage counters?
A. You place 3 because there was only one attachment, even though the attachment provided multiple energies. (Sep 13, 2012 TPCi Rules Team)

As long as this Pokémon is your Active Pokémon, whenever your opponent attaches an Energy from his or her hand to 1 of his or her Pokémon, put 3 damage counters on that Pokémon.

Whenever any player attaches an Energy from his or her hand to 1 of his or her Pokémon (excluding Team Plasma Pokémon) put 2 damage counters on that Pokémon.

It would place 2 damage counters. The act of attaching was done once.

Now just don't be the unlucky guy playing Blastoise against Ampharos+Frozen City.

 

[PokePop]

Glad someone thought to check the Compendium!

 

[pokemonguyaap]

see both sides of the debate, but I don't see anyway it isn't 40 looking at past precedent.

Even though Rainbow Energy was treated as colorless in hand,it was still treated as Grass/Psychic at the point of attachment with Energy Signal. But at the same time, that ruling is inconsistent with special energy with deluge/inferno fandago.

Deluge doesn't let you attach special energy.

 

[ShadowCard]

No matter how a card reads, just remember that you NEVER attach energy. It never happens. You attach energy cards.

Seems there is something obvious in Japanese about this that we lose in translation.

 

[Otaku]

see both sides of the debate, but I don't see anyway it isn't 40 looking at past precedent.

Even though Rainbow Energy was treated as colorless in hand,it was still treated as Grass/Psychic at the point of attachment with Energy Signal. But at the same time, that ruling is inconsistent with special energy with deluge/inferno fandago.

Not trying to "dog pile" on you, but the misconception about effects that check an Energy Type is pretty important to me, because I was one of the players asking about it waaaaaaaay back when WotC was still in charge and we got a ruling based on reasoning similar to what you presented... which was reversed after the license went to Nintendo.

Always pay attention to when something is being checked, and always remember that the Pokémon TCG is an abstraction and unfortunately not something we can "reality check" to see how timing issues should resolve. So far, I believe we have effects that check Energy in:

• hand
• deck
• discard pile
• play (attached to Pokémon).

The wording on some effects, like Energy Signal, seems misleading to me, though having played as long as I have it raised red flags when I first saw it; I realized that despite focusing on the Energy Type while in hand the actual trigger point might be considered the attachment. Hopefully future such effects will be more clear, not specifying an Energy card's Type until relevant to the effect.

Interesting to note that even on recent printings, Double Colorless Energy shows :colorless::colorless: in its upper right-hand corner, indicating it counts as providing that at all times, unlike Prism Energy which counts as :colorless: unless its effect is active. Several older Special Energy cards similarly count as something other than :colorless: based on their corner symbols, though the most recent Rainbow Energy printing (more recent than anything other than Double Colorless Energy and Prism Energy) finally changes its corner symbol from a "rainbow Energy" icon to :colorless:.

I thought this (Special Energy counting as :colorless: when effects aren't active) was a rule of the modern templates but Double Colorless Energy seems to contradict that.