Zangoose Ruling Required
- Thread starter Nintenfreak
- Start date
LegacyEeveeVGC
Active Member
Let's say it's Swords Dance vs. Purple...
Purple beats White, do whatever Purple says. (Don't re-spin.)
I have to disagree with that....
Purple beats White, do whatever Purple says. (Don't re-spin.)
I have to disagree with that....
ShadowCard
Active Member
That effectively makes Swords Dance also a potential Dodge area, so the chance of you spinning Dodge = Dodge + Swords Dance. That doesn't sound right, but I'm guessing that is what was trying to be said in the Altering Attacks section on page 8. From the paranthetical in that section, "(there would be no effect to the Miss or Blue)", it seems like Miss and Blue have no effect instead of Miss and Blue replace the Swords Dance effect.
Since Dodge counts as an attack, you can choose Dodge as the attack to count against Paralysis, right?
Axel D Ogu
New Member
It could definitely go either way, HOWEVER, it seems to me that if Zangoose can DODGE after performing SWORDS DANCE, that makes him a little too godly? I mean, he has absolutely no downside then, and can't be poisoned? It makes more sense to me that Swords Dance followed by dodge is a fail 0 damage because, otherwise he's simply too broken? I mean who else has a 100 persent sucess rate, 2 mp and a chance to deal massive damage?
hectagonman
New Member
But you don't have that fancy pokemon logo under your screen name.
So frankly, your opinion doesn't matter in THIS situation.
1. Swords Dance is not a straight-up 'extra chance for Dodge' area - you wouldn't spin again after Swords Dance, if your opponent spun Purple or Blue.
2. Any of the spin areas are considered 'attacks'...Paralyzed just says you have to choose a "non-Miss attack". (You could choose the Dodge attack as the attack affected by Paralyzed.)
I don't mind discussion on the game - my answers aren't meant to shut down thoughts on things, just to offer rules clarity - free service!
2. Any of the spin areas are considered 'attacks'...Paralyzed just says you have to choose a "non-Miss attack". (You could choose the Dodge attack as the attack affected by Paralyzed.)
I don't mind discussion on the game - my answers aren't meant to shut down thoughts on things, just to offer rules clarity - free service!
Technically speaking, if you spin Swords Dance, then Dodge, you do nothing.
I have my Zangoose in front of me, it says, Spin until you get a result other than Swords Dance. IF THAT RESULT DOES DAMAGE, double it.
Since Dodge does no damage, nothing happens. Dodge is not your real result, Swords Dance is. When you spin Dodge, it is just a part of the effect of the attack. Since the attack does not say "if Dodge", only "if damage", nothing happens.
I have my Zangoose in front of me, it says, Spin until you get a result other than Swords Dance. IF THAT RESULT DOES DAMAGE, double it.
Since Dodge does no damage, nothing happens. Dodge is not your real result, Swords Dance is. When you spin Dodge, it is just a part of the effect of the attack. Since the attack does not say "if Dodge", only "if damage", nothing happens.
LegacyEeveeVGC
Active Member
OK now on that just seems kinda broken...
I would think you would be allowed to spin again because you have another chance to get a dodge...
Luxatos
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
You're reading that into it. I read it as, "if that result does damage, double it. (If it doesn't do damage, don't alter it.)"
Of course, mtjimmer is the authority, or at least an official representative of the authority (imagining that there are several people involved). If you want the official word, look at his posts. Obviously he doesn't mind people disagreeing for a reason, but he's clarifying how these things work for us so there shouldn't be too many disagreements.
Axel D Ogu
New Member
Actually, I think I just found the answer in Teh Rulebook. It says:
ALTERING ATTACKS
Some effects change the damage a pokemon does. If an effect adds or subtracts damage, it only changes attacks that actually do damage. For example, if a pokemon has an effect that multiplies the damage its attack does, and it spins a Miss or a Blue, there isn't any damage (there would be no effect to the miss or Blue.)
So yeah, the last part. It clearly says a Miss OR A BLUE would be no effect, 0 damage.
Now, you could argue that it's saying that swords dance just wouldn't AFFECT dodge, dodge still performs as normal. However, this is the difference between the word AFFECT and EFFECT. Important distinction, because affect would mean dodge goes off, and effect means nothing happens. And I'm reading effect so, looks like nothing happens. Check your rulebook if your dubious.
ALTERING ATTACKS
Some effects change the damage a pokemon does. If an effect adds or subtracts damage, it only changes attacks that actually do damage. For example, if a pokemon has an effect that multiplies the damage its attack does, and it spins a Miss or a Blue, there isn't any damage (there would be no effect to the miss or Blue.)
So yeah, the last part. It clearly says a Miss OR A BLUE would be no effect, 0 damage.
Now, you could argue that it's saying that swords dance just wouldn't AFFECT dodge, dodge still performs as normal. However, this is the difference between the word AFFECT and EFFECT. Important distinction, because affect would mean dodge goes off, and effect means nothing happens. And I'm reading effect so, looks like nothing happens. Check your rulebook if your dubious.
Luxatos
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Affect is a verb, effect is the corresponding noun. That's the only difference. Miss and Blue don't do damage anyway, so the effect (i.e. Swords Dance, etc.) doesn't happen. That, as far as I can tell, is what that sentence means. Besides, look at the first part. "It only changes attacks that actually do damage."
I never thought I'd say this, but it would be nice for it to be in "legalese." Precise language.
I never thought I'd say this, but it would be nice for it to be in "legalese." Precise language.
Last edited:
I don't think so. It says "(there would be no effect to the miss or Blue.)" I would think that would mean miss or blue arn't altered.
I agree with mtjimmer.
Answer
After reading through the rules multiple times and letting it sink in for two days, I'm 99.9 percent positive that the ruling on Zangoose's "attack" - that has the "effect" "multiply" damage if you spin an attack that does damage - is that if you don't spin an attack that does damage you do not count it as a successful attack. Your initial spin is your attack and color. If that spin has an effect, the only way to trigger the effect, in Zangoose's case, is to spin an attack that does damage. Clearly, if you spin dodge, it doesn't do damage, so the effect of his attack that multiplies damage doesn't trigger - the initial attack with the effect multiply damage by two if you spin an attack that does damage, does no damage. This conclusion came from a careful interpretation of the rulebook under advanced rules (as someone on the board already quoted).
Hope this helps.
After reading through the rules multiple times and letting it sink in for two days, I'm 99.9 percent positive that the ruling on Zangoose's "attack" - that has the "effect" "multiply" damage if you spin an attack that does damage - is that if you don't spin an attack that does damage you do not count it as a successful attack. Your initial spin is your attack and color. If that spin has an effect, the only way to trigger the effect, in Zangoose's case, is to spin an attack that does damage. Clearly, if you spin dodge, it doesn't do damage, so the effect of his attack that multiplies damage doesn't trigger - the initial attack with the effect multiply damage by two if you spin an attack that does damage, does no damage. This conclusion came from a careful interpretation of the rulebook under advanced rules (as someone on the board already quoted).
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
Axel D Ogu
New Member
Ok so to everyone who is all Mjtimmer OMG he's so teh RIGHT sTFU ALREEDY!??!!
He said his perspective wasn't meant to shut down debate. Go read his posts again before trying to suck up.
And it should be contested because if you actually play the game, Zangoose is easily the best figure in the set by FAR with swords dance = dodge. He was close from our play testing when swords dance dodge was miss, so, it's just a little -_-. However obviously some sitches are just better peices than others and i'm not saying Zangoose is a huge broken game breaker....but just that with that ruling he is VASTLY the best all around figure in the set bar none. ok so maybe i'm saying he's a little broken
He said his perspective wasn't meant to shut down debate. Go read his posts again before trying to suck up.
And it should be contested because if you actually play the game, Zangoose is easily the best figure in the set by FAR with swords dance = dodge. He was close from our play testing when swords dance dodge was miss, so, it's just a little -_-. However obviously some sitches are just better peices than others and i'm not saying Zangoose is a huge broken game breaker....but just that with that ruling he is VASTLY the best all around figure in the set bar none. ok so maybe i'm saying he's a little broken
Yes, they were. He is the one who makes the calls, and you listen to them. Argue all you want, YOU. ARE. WRONG. No one is sucking up, they are trying to get it through your heads that a ruling has been made, and the discussion is over.
And it should be contested because if you actually play the game, Zangoose is easily the best figure in the set by FAR with swords dance = dodge. He was close from our play testing when swords dance dodge was miss, so, it's just a little -_-. However obviously some sitches are just better peices than others and i'm not saying Zangoose is a huge broken game breaker....but just that with that ruling he is VASTLY the best all around figure in the set bar none. ok so maybe i'm saying he's a little broken
WRONG. Sword Dance + Scratch=40 damage, almost any good figure can beat that. Sword Dance is 25%, crush claw even less than that, that means a less than 1/16 chance of nailing it. AS for dodge, you have a 5/16 chance of nailing it (25% chance on spin, 6.125% getting sword dance then dodge). That means 6/16 chance of doing it. Not broken at all.
Axel D Ogu
New Member
...
hectagonman
New Member
OK? You are discussing it.....wrongly. Please notice that mtjimmer helped produce the rules for this game. Either way, any way you argue, you are still wrong.
Axel D Ogu
New Member
LMAO, i understand the sitch dude I know he gave the ruling, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it? That's legit that you think its a LEGIT ruling but I happen to think its a BAD ruling. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with wrong or right so I have to say that you sir = epic failz