Ignoring the fact that you are wasting quite a few resources to get out a stage two level x and not getting much out of it? Seriously, Garde is a HORRIBLE combo with it, you are basically slowing garde down massively by making it so you have to get out a stage two then level it up. Why bother when you can use two supporters per turn? I am definatly going to test it with various cards to see how it works, starting with magnecatty (drawing which works with porygon z lv x, getting energy back which works with porygon z, ect.), but I'm not expecting good results with it. Still, I might just be pleasantly surprised.
Porygon Z level X thanks to Pokebeach.com
- Thread starter JandPDS
- Start date
Skull Bash
New Member
I already stated there aren't many combos right now. And for you to start testing with things already shows you don't understand how this game continuously works. These next couple sets will decide the game, basically. Nothing in these past few sets was groundbreaking. Blissey was ridiculous, but I think that's in large because there weren't any other good tanks out. Gallade and Gardy is pretty good, but once we get some good Psychic, that deck will probably fall to it. If a good combo will come out with it, it will be in the next couple sets. Wait until you see what comes out in those.
The only reason I was saying Gardy was alright was because it would be a good setup deck that covers Porygon Z's weakness. When you're getting a crazy amount of cards with Porygon Z and Gardevoir, both can probably be set up pretty fast as long as you have a starter.
Yes, after all, I'm going to test when I have no idea when its coming out =/. Keep assuming I'm an idiot, it will make this a truely fun discussion
Obviously, Magnecatty was just a seeminly obvious combo. Somehow, I doupt we are going to get cards that work quite that well, but as you said, you never know....
But by the time you get both Garde and Porygon Z Lv X out, you are pretty much setup. I'd rather use those resources to get out a few Gallades personally.
Skull Bash
New Member
Yea...
SuperWooper
New Member
I hate when people reply in the quote... makes it f***in impossible to reply...
Possibly test if nothing else comes out. And looking at the spoilers, I really don't see much else to go with it
True enough.
Fair enough, but using a stage two to do that seems a bit clunky, wheras using someone like Delcatty to just draw what you search for seems easier.
Possibly test if nothing else comes out. And looking at the spoilers, I really don't see much else to go with it
True enough.
Fair enough, but using a stage two to do that seems a bit clunky, wheras using someone like Delcatty to just draw what you search for seems easier.
i agree
skarmory777
New Member
Porygon Z is nuts. He's gonna be really good. Ordering my cards now. Porygon Z, Delcatty, Magneton, Lake Boundary.
ryanvergel
New Member
HHH=120 damage=12.5%
HHT=80 damage=12.5%
HTH=80 damage=12.5%
HTT=40 damage=12.5%
THH=80 damage=12.5%
THT=40 damage=12.5%
TTH=40 damage=12.5%
TTT=0 damage=12.5%
120 damage: 12.5%
80 damage: 37.5%
40 damage:37.5%
0 damage:12.5%
That means that 87.5% of the time you will be doing at least 40 damage. 50% of the time you'll be doing 80 or more damage.
If you're using DRE or scramble, you should be doing hitting for decent damage even without a lake boundary. 87.5% of the time. You should be hitting for 60+ (almost all pokemon have at least a +20 weakness) which isn't too bad. 50% of the time you're swinging for 80+weakness, which averages out at about 110 damage (most pokemon are about +30 weak to a type). 110 for 2 of any energy is nice.
You should almost always do at least 40, and for CC that's good enough as it is. Tack on the fact that 50% of the time it's 80+ for CC and you start to realize just how good this guy is. He averages at 60 for CC (add up all the damage possibilities above and divide by the number of possibilities). Averaging 60 for CC is sick!
I just don't understand why you guys think this card is bad. I mean, only 12.5% of the time will you hit for nothing. Most other times you should be able to hit for 40 or more and weakness. Play it with the right deck is all.
With a lake boundary you get a 50% chance to KO anything with a weakness for CC! That's pretty good IMO. And with a lake boundary you have an 87.5% chance to do 80+ to a pokemon. Very nice.
Plus Porygon2 is disgustingly broken. Porygon Z lvlX is just ridiculous. His coming-into-play power is stupidly good, and his every-turn power is broken. It will finally bring consistency back to this format. Sure, it's a stage 3, but a good stage 3 who has good attacks, and "three" nice poke-powers.
HHT=80 damage=12.5%
HTH=80 damage=12.5%
HTT=40 damage=12.5%
THH=80 damage=12.5%
THT=40 damage=12.5%
TTH=40 damage=12.5%
TTT=0 damage=12.5%
120 damage: 12.5%
80 damage: 37.5%
40 damage:37.5%
0 damage:12.5%
That means that 87.5% of the time you will be doing at least 40 damage. 50% of the time you'll be doing 80 or more damage.
If you're using DRE or scramble, you should be doing hitting for decent damage even without a lake boundary. 87.5% of the time. You should be hitting for 60+ (almost all pokemon have at least a +20 weakness) which isn't too bad. 50% of the time you're swinging for 80+weakness, which averages out at about 110 damage (most pokemon are about +30 weak to a type). 110 for 2 of any energy is nice.
You should almost always do at least 40, and for CC that's good enough as it is. Tack on the fact that 50% of the time it's 80+ for CC and you start to realize just how good this guy is. He averages at 60 for CC (add up all the damage possibilities above and divide by the number of possibilities). Averaging 60 for CC is sick!
I just don't understand why you guys think this card is bad. I mean, only 12.5% of the time will you hit for nothing. Most other times you should be able to hit for 40 or more and weakness. Play it with the right deck is all.
With a lake boundary you get a 50% chance to KO anything with a weakness for CC! That's pretty good IMO. And with a lake boundary you have an 87.5% chance to do 80+ to a pokemon. Very nice.
Plus Porygon2 is disgustingly broken. Porygon Z lvlX is just ridiculous. His coming-into-play power is stupidly good, and his every-turn power is broken. It will finally bring consistency back to this format. Sure, it's a stage 3, but a good stage 3 who has good attacks, and "three" nice poke-powers.
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Ho Megas Alexandros
New Member
w/e ryan said, i'm sure is right. No need to even read that post. PorygonZ LVL X.... will be played. But the question is, "Will you?"
ryanvergel
New Member
This really is Blissey CotD all over again ><
Ryan, you know averages never matter when it comes to the game of Pokemon. You are either getting the short end of the stick or whatever the opposite of that is. The main point is that Porygon Z is random. You can't guarantee any damage. Sure you can say, "___% of the time, you should be doing decent damage" but can you guarantee it? No.
Porygon Z might only require 2 energy, but it requires as much resources to get out as any other stage 2. It's entire line does not help it setup. It doesn't help setup anything until you level up. It's weak to about the worse weakness you can have in the format (right now), but we don't know when we might receive it, so that is not the biggest problem.
87.5% of the time doing 40 damage? Why even attack? Who builds a stage 2 that only has one attack to do 40 damage? 40 damage doesn't KO anything, and with 130HP, that 80 damage won't do a lot either unless you do have out the Lake Boundary.
And you have the have the right basic energy to discard to turn Porygon the right type. If it's discarded or you just don't run it, then you can't OHKO something without Lake Boundary (maybe 12.5% of the time).
IMHO, Porygon Z is just a poor Garchomp. Garchomp can hit anything (with the right basic energy) for 110 damage for one more energy than Porygon Z. Garchomp has +20 more HP, has free retreat, and a less common weakness. Both cards rely on their poke-power (or poke-body in Garchomp's case) to deal the extra damage. The only difference is that Garchomp doesn't flip to deal damage. You are either dealing 70 or 110. You never know what you are going to deal with Porygon Z.
You might as well take an Exegguttor deck to the tournament and see what you roll than Porygon Z deck.
True, the lv.X is really good, but it definitely lacks in the attack department. If it would have had one decent attack. CC for 50, the line would have been so much better. It makes it 2x weak to fighting too.
Here's a good comment. When you face off against a fighting deck and drop that Lake Boundary, they will be able to OHKO you much easier too. Only 60 damage needed to OHKO Porygon Z and 70 to KO Porygon lv.X. I guess you could run Holon FF, but that would clog the system of trying to run all the different kinds of basic energy needed to get everything's weakness. You probably wouldn't run more than 3 fire energy, so good luck removing your weakness with ff.
You like it so much? Use it, and win tournaments with it.
Porygon Z might only require 2 energy, but it requires as much resources to get out as any other stage 2. It's entire line does not help it setup. It doesn't help setup anything until you level up. It's weak to about the worse weakness you can have in the format (right now), but we don't know when we might receive it, so that is not the biggest problem.
87.5% of the time doing 40 damage? Why even attack? Who builds a stage 2 that only has one attack to do 40 damage? 40 damage doesn't KO anything, and with 130HP, that 80 damage won't do a lot either unless you do have out the Lake Boundary.
And you have the have the right basic energy to discard to turn Porygon the right type. If it's discarded or you just don't run it, then you can't OHKO something without Lake Boundary (maybe 12.5% of the time).
IMHO, Porygon Z is just a poor Garchomp. Garchomp can hit anything (with the right basic energy) for 110 damage for one more energy than Porygon Z. Garchomp has +20 more HP, has free retreat, and a less common weakness. Both cards rely on their poke-power (or poke-body in Garchomp's case) to deal the extra damage. The only difference is that Garchomp doesn't flip to deal damage. You are either dealing 70 or 110. You never know what you are going to deal with Porygon Z.
You might as well take an Exegguttor deck to the tournament and see what you roll than Porygon Z deck.
True, the lv.X is really good, but it definitely lacks in the attack department. If it would have had one decent attack. CC for 50, the line would have been so much better. It makes it 2x weak to fighting too.
Here's a good comment. When you face off against a fighting deck and drop that Lake Boundary, they will be able to OHKO you much easier too. Only 60 damage needed to OHKO Porygon Z and 70 to KO Porygon lv.X. I guess you could run Holon FF, but that would clog the system of trying to run all the different kinds of basic energy needed to get everything's weakness. You probably wouldn't run more than 3 fire energy, so good luck removing your weakness with ff.
You like it so much? Use it, and win tournaments with it.
SuperWooper
New Member
.................................................
Actually Prime, the Porygon line is sick for setting itself up. Personally I'm not the worlds biggest fan of the Porygon Z line, but if Bobby, Alex, and Ryan are saying its good, I'm probably just missing something, It might also have to do with the whole "Flip three coins" thing, and my lack of desire to repeat my TSD experiece (9/9 on tails).
Read Porygon 2. You get two supporters per turn. Discard a Scott, get more supporters. Play a Scott, discard multiple supporters. And you can also use Porygon 2 to discard a draw card to draw the cards you put on top of your deck with Porygon Z Lv X. Honestly, looking at it now, I could see Porygon Z working due to sheer speed alone.
ryanvergel
New Member
Porygon2 is BROKEN. If you think he doesn't help setup... then gosh. That's just =\
You guys just aren't seeing the combos this guy can offer.
You run an engine with 4 scott, 3 castaway, some roseanne's and some lake boundary. Every single turn you should be able to get the desired energy (via castaway or roseanne's or plusle[I'd use plusle with it so that if you get knocked out you get back 2 energy cards for free. With this setup you can also desrease your energy count to something like 10 energy because you're fetching them so easily with roseanne's and castaways allowing more slots to be freed up) and have a lake boundary to get crucial KOs.
87.5% of the time is pretty darn good. With this engine, you're doing 80+ for CC a turn. 50% of the time you get a guaranteed knockout on anyone.
Not to mention your insane speed with Porygon2. He's only a stage 1 and very easy to bring out if you're running a lot of supporters. He should be up t3 every game.
Now, you may say "what about cessation crystal? you can't guarantee the use of powers every turn! And your pokemon is so weak to the best type out!"
To cessation I say: Pachirisu. He'll both set up AND remove problematic cessations. With the PZX coming out, unless they both cess AND wager, you should be able to put windstorms on top of your deck to guarantee removal of cessations and to help ensure the proper energy, etc. gets into your hand.
To the weakness I say: With the energy requirements of CC I'll be using this card like Blissey. One Holon FF and a fire means I can attack (providing my CC perfectly) and be void of weakness. It's not that difficult to get out. Even if I don't- it's not a big deal.
You guys can't just look at good cards and think of them in a limited sense. Sure, the way most people run decks now it wouldn't work. Good players have been saying this card rocks throughout the thread because they think outside of the box and can see ways to MAKE it work. And easily make it work.
Porygon2 is MUCH better than delcatty. Why is this? Delcatty is a poor TVR every turn. Porygon2 is a much more universal, precise power. You can choose exactly what supporter you want to use. Instead of hitting in the dark with Energy Draw you can use a Celio's, or a wager, etc.
I can see this card being used as a HUGELY disruptive card.
Run 4 mars and 4 wager and in one turn you can literally CRIPPLE your opponent. I will use my turn's supporter to use a Scott. I'll then get 3 Mars. I can run dual balls and even run an Umbreon*. I just drew 6 cards, possibly used an Umbreon* and dropped your hand 4 cards. If I'm running Absol as a starter you just lost the game. Did I mention I'll now lay down my PZX and discard almost ALL your energy in play? God help you if I have a lake boundary in play and the energy I need from a previous turn's castaway or Plusle. I can do 80 or knockout your main attacker, after having discarded all of your special energy, and guaranteeing my consistency for the rest of the game.
This deck's mid-game potential is sickening. You may be able to take a prize or two early, but once I have 2-3 Porygon2s up (you want to leave them as P2s until you attack) I'll be doing some wacky tricks and setting up like you can only dream.
I can easily see a:
4/4/4 Porygon line
3 Absol
2 Pachirisu
1 Plusle
1 Umbreon*
^19 pokes
10 Energy
(if fighting is even big at this point you can run 3 FF, 3 fire (you can get them so easily with this engine and with plusle), and 4-5 psychic/lightning, whatever. Run 2-3 night maintenance and your plusle to get back your energy, and you shouldn't have problems.
You now have 31 slots for trainers with a stage 2 deck.
4 scott
3 castaway
3 roseanne's
3 windstorm
3 mars
2 wager
3 TVR
2 Birch
3 celio's
2 night maintenance
3 lake boundary
You get the idea. This is just something off the top of my head to show the general idea. You can drop the umby* and the absols and run pachirisu for a super speed setup. Maybe a fione too.
The difference between this guy and garchomp is that this guy has WAYYY more options. He's also more consistent. His stage 1s set up much better, and he has a cheaper attack. You could use him as a disrupter with 4 absol, 4 wager, umby*, 4 mars. Or you can use him as strictly setup with tons of draw, pluspowers, etc. You can run 4 SSU (and once you DO get the PZX out and use his power, you can put them right on top of your deck to get off multiple SSUs and avoid dying while killing any special energy your opponent does manage to get up. If you slim the deck down to just pachi, plusle, and PZ you can probably run er2 as well and stop your opponent in his tracks mid-game by not being able to attach energy.
Are you guys starting to get it? Porygon has so many diverse options. OPTIONS are what this game is about. The best and most sickening decks have always been the ones with more options. More options opens more doors to outplay, and outskill your opponent. More options means less luck controlling you.
Sure, his attack isn't a guarantee- but if you're using this guy right missing an attack 1/10 times or so isn't that bad. You should be doing circles around your opponent.
Now you guys can't complain about good players never divulging strategy or discussing cards. It's pretty sad that when we say a card is good, no one believes us. Take our word for it, this card is gooooood.
You guys just aren't seeing the combos this guy can offer.
You run an engine with 4 scott, 3 castaway, some roseanne's and some lake boundary. Every single turn you should be able to get the desired energy (via castaway or roseanne's or plusle[I'd use plusle with it so that if you get knocked out you get back 2 energy cards for free. With this setup you can also desrease your energy count to something like 10 energy because you're fetching them so easily with roseanne's and castaways allowing more slots to be freed up) and have a lake boundary to get crucial KOs.
87.5% of the time is pretty darn good. With this engine, you're doing 80+ for CC a turn. 50% of the time you get a guaranteed knockout on anyone.
Not to mention your insane speed with Porygon2. He's only a stage 1 and very easy to bring out if you're running a lot of supporters. He should be up t3 every game.
Now, you may say "what about cessation crystal? you can't guarantee the use of powers every turn! And your pokemon is so weak to the best type out!"
To cessation I say: Pachirisu. He'll both set up AND remove problematic cessations. With the PZX coming out, unless they both cess AND wager, you should be able to put windstorms on top of your deck to guarantee removal of cessations and to help ensure the proper energy, etc. gets into your hand.
To the weakness I say: With the energy requirements of CC I'll be using this card like Blissey. One Holon FF and a fire means I can attack (providing my CC perfectly) and be void of weakness. It's not that difficult to get out. Even if I don't- it's not a big deal.
You guys can't just look at good cards and think of them in a limited sense. Sure, the way most people run decks now it wouldn't work. Good players have been saying this card rocks throughout the thread because they think outside of the box and can see ways to MAKE it work. And easily make it work.
Porygon2 is MUCH better than delcatty. Why is this? Delcatty is a poor TVR every turn. Porygon2 is a much more universal, precise power. You can choose exactly what supporter you want to use. Instead of hitting in the dark with Energy Draw you can use a Celio's, or a wager, etc.
I can see this card being used as a HUGELY disruptive card.
Run 4 mars and 4 wager and in one turn you can literally CRIPPLE your opponent. I will use my turn's supporter to use a Scott. I'll then get 3 Mars. I can run dual balls and even run an Umbreon*. I just drew 6 cards, possibly used an Umbreon* and dropped your hand 4 cards. If I'm running Absol as a starter you just lost the game. Did I mention I'll now lay down my PZX and discard almost ALL your energy in play? God help you if I have a lake boundary in play and the energy I need from a previous turn's castaway or Plusle. I can do 80 or knockout your main attacker, after having discarded all of your special energy, and guaranteeing my consistency for the rest of the game.
This deck's mid-game potential is sickening. You may be able to take a prize or two early, but once I have 2-3 Porygon2s up (you want to leave them as P2s until you attack) I'll be doing some wacky tricks and setting up like you can only dream.
I can easily see a:
4/4/4 Porygon line
3 Absol
2 Pachirisu
1 Plusle
1 Umbreon*
^19 pokes
10 Energy
(if fighting is even big at this point you can run 3 FF, 3 fire (you can get them so easily with this engine and with plusle), and 4-5 psychic/lightning, whatever. Run 2-3 night maintenance and your plusle to get back your energy, and you shouldn't have problems.
You now have 31 slots for trainers with a stage 2 deck.
4 scott
3 castaway
3 roseanne's
3 windstorm
3 mars
2 wager
3 TVR
2 Birch
3 celio's
2 night maintenance
3 lake boundary
You get the idea. This is just something off the top of my head to show the general idea. You can drop the umby* and the absols and run pachirisu for a super speed setup. Maybe a fione too.
The difference between this guy and garchomp is that this guy has WAYYY more options. He's also more consistent. His stage 1s set up much better, and he has a cheaper attack. You could use him as a disrupter with 4 absol, 4 wager, umby*, 4 mars. Or you can use him as strictly setup with tons of draw, pluspowers, etc. You can run 4 SSU (and once you DO get the PZX out and use his power, you can put them right on top of your deck to get off multiple SSUs and avoid dying while killing any special energy your opponent does manage to get up. If you slim the deck down to just pachi, plusle, and PZ you can probably run er2 as well and stop your opponent in his tracks mid-game by not being able to attach energy.
Are you guys starting to get it? Porygon has so many diverse options. OPTIONS are what this game is about. The best and most sickening decks have always been the ones with more options. More options opens more doors to outplay, and outskill your opponent. More options means less luck controlling you.
Sure, his attack isn't a guarantee- but if you're using this guy right missing an attack 1/10 times or so isn't that bad. You should be doing circles around your opponent.
Now you guys can't complain about good players never divulging strategy or discussing cards. It's pretty sad that when we say a card is good, no one believes us. Take our word for it, this card is gooooood.
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Well Ryan, I wish you and everyone best of luck playing the deck. Hopefully you all will do well with it.
That leads to the second question. When is it coming out? If we don't see it until the set at Worlds, there goes Scott, there goes Castaway, there goes a lot of the engine.
That leads to the second question. When is it coming out? If we don't see it until the set at Worlds, there goes Scott, there goes Castaway, there goes a lot of the engine.