Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Public Infromation: For Informational Purposes Only?

lets give an example

i have 4 eevee in play/discard pile, but one is active with an energy

i use pokenav, and i see that i have 3 basic energy on top of my deck

i take one, and i know that i will draw dead for at least the next 2 turns

i should use call for family now shouldnt i? i can search my deck to see what is prized also
 
TrainerJL said:
If you Call for Family with all 4 eevees visible, don't be surprised if the judge penalizes you for stalling. :wink:
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If someone CFFs when all 4 pokemon are in play and the round is under 5 minutes, I know what my recommendation to the head judge would be...

yoyofsho16 said:
I just seriously don't understand why this ruling is angering people.
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For this reason:
yoshi1001 said:
You have asked what rulings would be overturned. There are two possiblities: Either the one ruling listed at the start of this thread or every ruling that uses game rules to disqualify a deck search. I will not bother to list the latter.
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It has been asserted that games rules can disqualify deck searches (Wally can't evolve a pokemon that has no next stage evolution). However, the ability to CFF when all 4 pokemon are visible says that the game rule is null and flies in the face of all the other rulings.
 
So they are angry that they only have the freedom to search and fail with some cards?
Why would they want to never have that freedom as opposed to having it on some cards and not others?
 
yoyofsho16 said:
So they are angry that they only have the freedom to search and fail with some cards?
Why would they want to never have that freedom as opposed to having it on some cards and not others?
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It's just consistency. When new cards come out and a league kid asks me if they can use that attack, I'd prefer to say "No, since you can't get anymore" or "Yes, since the game doesn't know if there are any left" rather than "Hold on, let me look it up on the internet to see if this is one of those cards that let you search and shuffle when you shouldn't."

Currently, the idea is that "the game" doesn't know what's in the deck.

But if "the game" doesn't know the rules for basic deck construction, why does it know other, less obvious rules? (4 cards per deck is pretty basic rules. But a new/less knowledgable player to Pokemon might not know that Clefable doesn't evolve when using Metrenome on "Ascension" and might start to search their deck for an evolution or to shuffle their deck to mix up some cards.)
 
For the record, I'm not angry. More like befuddled.

lets give an example

i have 4 eevee in play/discard pile, but one is active with an energy

i use pokenav, and i see that i have 3 basic energy on top of my deck

i take one, and i know that i will draw dead for at least the next 2 turns

i should use call for family now shouldnt i? i can search my deck to see what is prized also
Click to expand...

Perhaps, except the game doesn't care what order the cards are in your deck. There's a distinct difference between knowing what is in your deck (which can be inferred by public information) and where it is in your deck (which cannot).
 
MimeMimeMime said:
What does this example have to do with a question about what the game knows about the contents of the deck or discard pile?
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OK, maybe Wallys Training or Evoluter would have been a better example. Why can't you use Wallys Training or Evoluter on Mewtwo?

Q. Can I use Wally's Training on a Mewtwo to search my deck, even though there is no evolution of Mewtwo?
A. No, there has to at least be the possibility of a valid evolution in order to use this card. Sorry. (Jan 22, 2004 PUI Rules Team)
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The game doesn't know that I don't have a evolution of Mewtwo in my deck! But it does, because the game knows that Mewtwo doesn't evolve. In the same way, the game should know that you can't have more than 4 copies of eevee. That's the inconsistency. I hope this example is better. :thumb:
 
I don't think it's that confusing. No card exists, at all, that evolves from Mewtwo, or Charizard, or Darkrai, or whatever. It's not the same situation.
 
Well if your opening hand was 4 eevees and a baltoy but no bebe's, and I wanted to know if I had a claydol in my deck, I think it should be fair that I search my deck. Or if I used a Pokedex and saw that my next few cards would be crap and wanted to shuffle and get a shuffle to 'fix' it.

Those are some scenarios where a ruling like this makes sense. The game isn't 'stupid' so much as the move is strange. The wording is: "Search your deck for as many eevee as you like and put them onto your bench." I don't think it could be any clearer that you can search your deck for up to four eevees, or down to zero. If I had 2 cards left in my deck (both eevees) and needed to stall a turn somehow, I think using Call for Family and pulling none is a fair move. So how 'stupid' is it?

This ruling changes nothing, just makes clear the simple facts of the wording.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

No, because the list of all 493 Pokemon and their evolutionary chains is COMPLETELY PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. The contents of your deck is not public knowledge. And what if I'm running a deck with 1 Eevee and every other form? Maybe I'm just running that many techs that i can afford to do that....
 
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SirKibbleX said:
Well if your opening hand was 4 eevees and a baltoy but no bebe's, and I wanted to know if I had a claydol in my deck, I think it should be fair that I search my deck. Or if I used a Pokedex and saw that my next few cards would be crap and wanted to shuffle and get a shuffle to 'fix' it.
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in this situation, would you not save hassle by just leaving an eevee in your hand, i cant see you drawing 4 eeveeloutions of of that hand, so that would mean that you could do it without any problem whatsoever.
 
yoshi1001 said:
By the same token, I could argue that no more Eevee exist in your deck.
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It's clearly not the same token, made obvious by the fact that you had to qualify your statement, whereas I did not.

Call for Family:
1. Do cards called "Eevee" exist? They do!
2. In your deck? Yeah, for all you know. They're face-down, after all.
3. Search.
4. ???
5. Profit!

Evoluter on Darkrai:
1. Do cards that evolve from Darkrai exist? No. Okay, we're done here.
 
ZAKtheGeek said:
It's clearly not the same token, made obvious by the fact that you had to qualify your statement, whereas I did not.

Call for Family:
1. Do cards called "Eevee" exist? They do!
2. In your deck? Yeah, for all you know. They're face-down, after all.
3. Search.
4. ???
5. Profit!

Evoluter on Darkrai:
1. Do cards that evolve from Darkrai exist? No. Okay, we're done here.
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But they can't be in your deck, so they might as well not exist. :wink:

Basically, this is a matter of perspective. Either you see a difference between the two rulings or you don't.
 
Skitty said:
I agree with yoshi1001. You can't play TSD when you have no Pokemon in your discard pile because it's obvius it won't do anything. You can't use Rare Candy if your only Pokemon in play is a Darkrai because it's obvius it won't do anything. What's the differance between those two situations and this? None of them can have an effect in these situations. But in the end it's PUI's desision what the ruling will be.
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Incorrect. With Eevee, as previously stated, I can search my deck, thus revealing what cards are in the Prize Pile, then I can shuffle it.
 
Actually after reconsidering the situation, I'm going to have t change my mind on this one. I think it should be fair to search your deck for an evolution card, even if its known that the card doesn't exist, a least that would give some consistency to the rulings.

The main point is that rather than making specific and ostensibly contradictory rulings, PUI should just make such 'blanket' rulings i.e. either the contents of your deck cannot be deduced PERIOD, including cards that cannot exist (a fifth eevee and a MewThree are just about the same thing, both are impossible) or make clear what TYPES of plays can be used which may have no effect i.e. you can always use a move even if it will have virtually no effect, but you can't play cards from your hand that will have no effect.
 
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Paperfairy said:
Incorrect. With Eevee, as previously stated, I can search my deck, thus revealing what cards are in the Prize Pile, then I can shuffle it.
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The key phrase in any in search text is "for a"-you cannot be searching your deck for an Eevee if it cannot possibly be there.
 
I think most search situations are for unconstrained card names. Cards usually say search for a supporter, pokemon, stadium, etc.. For those sorts of searches even though you've used 4 of any one supporter/pokemon/stadium/etc, there could be a different card in the deck that meets the search criteria.

OK, here are some situations that may be affected by the ruling.

(Note: All of these situations hinge on having a 'known' imbalance of basic and evolution cards out of the discard pile. The player has probably misplayed by using some method to recover a basic pokemon, or used some discard method to discard a needed evolution card. These situations all have excess basics in play and at least one stage 1 or stage 2 card in discard.)

A1) I have 4 Monfernos in my discard. I've managed to recover at least one Chimchar with Night Mnt or other method and it is now on my bench. I use Phione's Evolution Wish to search for Monferno in my deck.

A2) Similar situation, using TM1 (Evoluter) to search for Monferno.

A3) Similar situation using Abra and Alakazam. I have 1 Abra on the bench/active with 4 Alakazam in the discard pile. I use Ultra Evolution to search for Alakazam in my deck.

B1) Similar situation with Sunkern. I use Sun Soak, win the flip and search my deck for Sunflora (which are all in the discard pile.)

B2) Same situation with Metapod. Win the flip and search for something that is known to be in the discard.

C1) I have 4 Murkrow in play (or any combination of 1+ in play and the rest in discard). I use Swarm to search my deck for Murkrow.

D1) Same situation for Nidoran M or Nidoran F. I've got 4 of each in play or discard (Note, at least 3 in discard so I have 5 in play with an open slot on the bench) and I use Call for Family to search for Nidoran M or Nidoran F in my deck.

D2) Same Nidoran situation except Shellos East Sea and Shellos West Sea. Go Shell Hunting with any 3 in discard and 5 in play.

BTW: We've already determined that the discard pile is public knowledge correct?
 
what we really need here is to move on to a more useful discusion.

how do you think garchomp will mature from the new set?
 
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