Iron Chef:Grades (T16, divisions 1-4...Final verdict in!)

[Cyrus]

~~~DIVISION ONE~~~
-Acutin VS Burninating Torchic-
Acutin

Pokémon: 1
1 Regigigas SF

Energies: 16
4 Water Energy
4 Metal Energy
4 Fighting Energy
4 Multi Energy

Trainers 43
4 Felicity's Drawing
4 Professor Oak's Visit
4 Roseanne's Research
3 Cynthia's Feelings
4 Skull Fossil
4 Armor Fossil
4 Great Ball
4 Energy Pickup
4 Energy Link
4 Night Maintenance
2 Time-Space Distortion
2 Warp Point

So, at first glance, there weren't too many Pokémon to choose from in this set. There was Regigigas, Scyther, Sabeleye, and I even considered Onix. The bottom line is that I chose Regigigas because it was the only one that could one hit any other Pokémon in the set. Nice HP for a basic and good attacks.

Onto the Trainers: I found a good amount of Supporters was needed for this challenge. Also 6 ways to retriever our Regigigas in case it gets KOed assures us we wont lose on Fossils KOs.
The main strategy is to hit with Regi's 1st attack (CC for 30) until the opponent promotes their basic Pokemon. In the meantime, we keep laying energies on our fossils. Whenever Regigigas gets KOed, we put him back in play and energize him with the help of Energy Links and Pickups to one hit your opponent's main attacker.

Hope you like it !
Agustin

BT

Pokemon: 1
1 Onix SF

Trainers: 45
4 Skull Fossil
4 Pluspower
4 Buck's Training
4 PokeBlower +
4 PokeHealer +
4 Potion
4 PokeDrawer +
4 Pokedex Handy 910is
3 Marley's Request
2 Team Galactic's Wager
2 Fossil Excavator
2 Amulet Coin
3 Warp Point
1 Time-Space Distortion

Energy: 14
7 Fighting
3 Recover Energy
2 Warp Energy
2 Cyclone Energy


Strategy: Hopefully start with a Skull Fossil or two to buy time while you power up Onix and build a hand full of some combination of Pluspowers, Bucks, and PokeBlowers. If you do not start with Skull Fossil, that's no problem at all - Onix's Harden attack will work as a stall as well (And the ability to stall with Harden was a factor in my choice of Onix over Tangela), but Skull Fossil has the added bonus of possibly damaging them when it's knocked out. When you have enough energy to use Bind, you'll hopefully have enough damage-adding trainers to OHKO your opponent's Pokemon, but if not, you've got the paralysis flip as a backup plan.

Card Choices:

Onix - This was a tough choice - it was Onix, Farfetch'd, or Tangela. I decided that Onix was superior if solely because of its extra HP and therefore higher likeliness to withstand the OHKO that this format relies on. It's true that Farfetch'd has higher damage potential (with flips) and a lower attack cost, but in addition to requiring lucky flips to do more damage than Onix, I decided that Farfetch'd was just plain more obvious. In my opinion, the two most obvious cards in this format are Sableye and Regigigas, and Onix was chosen with these Pokemon in mind. Sableye cannot donk it with Overconfident, and needs EIGHT in some combination of Special Darks/Pluspowers/Pokeblowers/Bucks in order to OHKO it. Regigigas is the biggest threat in the format, with its ability to OHKO literally any possible choice, and the desire to combat Regigigas was the main reason I chose Onix. Because of the weakness, Onix needs only two pluspowers/Bucks to OHKO the 100 HP Gigas.

Skull Fossil - Though a bit obvious, I think it's vital in this format. It serves as both a shield and a sword, and if you get two of them out, only a dual PokeBlower can bring up Onix.

Pluspower/Bucks/PokeBlower - Obviously, to increase your damage output and hopefully put anything in the OHKO range (PokeBlower is mainly used one at a time, for the damage counter placement). PokeBlower can also be used to bypass a fossil shield and bring up your true target.

PokeHealer/Potion/Recover Energy - If they can't manage to OHKO you, it's vital that you're able to heal all of the damage off immediately. PokeHealer and Recover Energy can also get you out of pesky special conditions that'll hinder your ability to attack.

PokeDrawer/Handy 910is/Amulet Coin - It's important to draw through your deck as fast as possible to get to your energy and damage adder cards.

Marley's Request - In this format, it's actually good. There are many situations when either of two trainers in your discard pile could help you - PokeHealer or Potion, Pluspower or PokeBlower, Pokedrawer or Handy 910is. This card really has a lot of potential to help recover the trainers that you need a lot of but can only use a few in your deck.

Wager - Can be used to hinder your opponent's plans and/or to help you if you have a really dead hand.

Fossil Excavator - One of the more unique choices, I think. Skull Fossil is a pretty important piece of the deck, and it's important to be able to get it out quickly. Can also be used to recover it from the discard pile.

Warp Point/Cyclone Energy/Warp Energy - To get Onix to the safety of the bench and/or to blow away their fossils and bring up their real Pokemon.

TSD - Seems crazy, I know. But if they knock out Onix, you NEED it back. Skull Fossil can't do jack unless you're an incredible flipper. And even then, what happens when you have a stalemate of Skull Fossils? This is necessary in case they take Onix by surprise, but since that event is rare, there only needs to be one.

Energy Count - Onix only needs 1 F for its attack, so you have room for utility energy. I think this is plenty with the amount of draw you have.

Trainers I didn't use: Leftovers, Double Full Heal, and Health Energy, most notably. I felt that since you had the protection of Skull Fossils, space didn't need to be wasted on these. Potions and PokeHealers should be enough healing for this deck, and PokeHealer/Recover Energy/Warp Energy can take care of Special Conditions.
Also, Speed Stadium. I needed to cut something, and I felt that it was the worst draw - not only is it unreliable, but it helps your opponent, too.

So there's my deck. Hope you like it. This was a great challenge, really forces us to think about the game differently.

Lists:
Acutin - 9/10. Overall, your list is excellent. However, I would still suggest a bit of healing, and definitely more basic energy (multi are really not that good in this build).
BT - 6/10. The list is seriously lacking in energy recovery – a must for something big like Onix. Also, you are almost entirely dry of Pokemon replenishment cards.
Creativity:
Acutin - 2/5.
BT - 3/5.

Card Usage in Format:
Acutin - 3/5.
BT - 4/5

Preliminary decision: Acutin. BT’s idea is overall very solid for a Stormfront challenge like this, but the list is unable to carry those ideas.


~~~DIVISION TWO~~~
-Noir VS Magnechu-
Noir

Pokemon (1 lol):

1x Yanma (LA)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadium (49):

4x Plus Power
4x Energy Search
4x Amulet Coin
4x Pokedex
4x Poke Healer+
4x Poke Drawer+
4x Poke Blower+
2x Marley's Request
3x Snowpoint Temple
4x Team Galactic's Wager
4x Team Galactic Mars
2x Professor Rowan
3x Felicity's Drawing
3x Double Full Heal



Energy (10):

10x Grass Energy


Deck Concept:

The reason I chose Yanma over quite a few other popular choices as my sole basic from LA is because it does 10+ damage turn 1, then 20+ possible agility. Since there are only 1 basic per deck, there is nothing your opponent can do if you flip Heads for agility aside from trainers/supports that do direct damage from effects.

Trainers/Supports:

Energy Search is here to get Energy if needed as Roseanne's would be a wasted supporter in this situation. Amulet Coin is for additional draw per turn to make up for no draw pokemon. Poke Healer is in here to heal damage counters and take of special conditions. Pokedrawer is additional draw and can be used to get any 2 when 2 are played, this can be very helpful to grab something like Snowpoint Temple, Plus Power, or other things. Poke Blower's sole purpose in the deck is to be played 1 at a time to try and place additional damage counters on the opponent. Snowpoint is there to make Yanma a 90HP pokemon.

With Wager and Mars, I decided to go with a semi disruptive draw support. In addition to agility effects from Yanma, reducing your opponents hand when there is no draw pokemon can hurt bad, and you get more cards in the meantime. Wager is to be played first, then Mars to knock down their hand down. Rowan is here for a fresh draw when used, and Felicity's is here for guaranteed draw support if Wager and/or Mars doesn't want to be played. Double full heal is there in case of conditions that way you can take them off Yanma.

There isn't really any strategy to the deck, its all Luck really. Outcome will be based mainly on your flips, somewhat on draw. Pretty much put 2 energy on Yanma and hope for heads lol.

Thanks again for grading Cyrus, Good luck Magnechu

~Noir

Magnechu

Pokemon 1
1 Groudon LA

Energy 18
18 Fighting Energy

Trainers 41
4 Roseanne's Research
4 Buck's Training
4 Cynthia's Feelings
4 Root Fossil
3 Claw Fossil
4 Great Ball
2 Time Space Distortion
4 Night Maintenance
4 PokeBlower++
4 Energy Pickup
4 Stark Mountain


After much deliberation, I decided on Groudon. There were many cards to choose from, Rayquaza being the most prominent, but I felt that Rayquaza would be slower and less efficient in the end than Groudon. Groudon not only provides a great attack, 3 for 100, but also energy acceleration in its first attack.

18 Fighting Energy seems standard, more than the normal deck and enough that you should have a few in hand turn one for Drought, but not enough to drown the enormous amount of Trainers you would need out of your hand.

Trainers. 4 Roseanne for fishing out Groudon at any time and for getting the much needed energy for Drought. 4 Buck's for the extra draw and the extra damage that would be needed against a Rayquaza deck. If you do an extra 10, you do 90 damage to it, and would only need a PokeBlower flip go your way or for them to KO a Claw Fossil. 4 Cynthia is for recovery which is much needed after every Groudon KO.

4 Root Fossil because it soaks up Groudon's bench damage effect. Claw Fossil for the reason stated above.

4 Great Ball for the quick recovery after a Night Maintenance. 4 Night Maintenance and 2 TSD for recovery, not only of Groudon, but also of Energy. In theory, you will probably only get out 4 Groudon a game (Fossil KOs), which leaves (assuming you flips at least one heads on each TSD) 10 extra Energy to go back into your deck, which is amazing. 4 Energy Pickup adds in this, especially as it is an extra Energy to a Pokemon and not to the deck.

PokeBlower++ serves two purposes: one for the extra 10 anywhere that would help a lot vs Rayquaza, and also for the obvious gust and kill effect which could provide endlessly useful vs anything. 4 Stark Mountain because the next Groudon needs to be powered up quickly. Also, it counters the hated Snowpoint Temple when it is convenient for you.


Overall, I feel this would have an edge on anything that was pitted against it from LA. Good luck to my opponent, this was quite an interesting challenge, good work Ketts!

Mikey

Comments:
Lists-
Noir: 8/10 ; Magnechu: 9/10
Creativity-
Noir: 4/5 ; Magnechu: 2/5
Usage-
Noir: 2/5 ; Magnechu: 4/5
Preliminary winner: Magnechu. Noir’s idea relies on lucky coin flips…But one whiffed flip means instant doom. Not a very safe strategy.

~~~DIVISION THREE~~~
-Davidy321 VS SuperWooper-
Davidy321

Pokemon
1 Moltres

Fossils
4 Claw Fossil
4 Root Fossil

Trainers
4 Time Space Distortion
2 Night Maintenance
2 Quick Ball
1 Luxury Ball
4 Super Scoop Up
4 Energy Pick Up
3 Stark Mountain
4 PokeBlower +
2 Warp Point
4 Roseanne's Search
1 TG Wager
1 Cynthia's Feelings
3 Felicitiys Drawing

Energy
4 Cyclone
2 Warp
10 Fire Energy

The reason I decided to play Moltres was for several reasons, one of the most important being it's attack literally OHKOs everything in my metagame, with the exception of snowpoint temple. The other reason was because it has the advantage of possible comeback (with the power).
It was more viable as a choice over Zapdos/Articuno/Mewtwo (and everything else). Articuno is not an efficient counter as although it does OHKO Moltres without having to discard any energy, after the first one, the rest are difficult to repower up. Moltres power is a significant possible comeback.

The list is pretty simple. One thing many competitors I -think- did not realize is that by playing fossils, you can used TSD/NM to get back a Moltres once the first one is knocked out, in others words to actually have that one Pokemon to be used more than just the one time.
After some testing with simulation (redshark) I found the amount of fossils 8 to be the right amount. It is almost always you start with a fossil, so that is the reason quick ball/luxury/roseanne is played. Stark Mountain gives an amazing advantage as:
1/. You counter -possible- basics e.g. Zapdos/Articuno+Snowpoint Temple decks with this countergym.
2/. When one Moltres has been knocked out, you can attach to fossils whilst finding a way to quickly get your Moltres back, and later move (using the stadium) to moltres as a way of more reliable comeback, if you don't flip heads on the power, as the deck tries as much as possible to not rely on Moltres. Energy pick up/super scoop up are both to attack as quickly as possible. The ability to attack as often as possible is essential in this format.

Super scoop up is used in the situation where you have just Knocked out something/their main pokemon and they were unable to knock you back out. Therefore you can SSU to attempt to reuse the power. Wager/Cynthia are both not effective I found, however are situationally really important so they are used. Felicity is to discard fire (as well as be a standard draw) when you don't start with Moltres (almost always) before you play it down to possibly abuse the power. The Pokeblower is arguably iffy, but the advantage of being able to instantly send out their (one) only Pokemon at the time is huge, so they can't hide behind fossils.
Warp Point/Cyclone are used similarly when they ONLY have that Pokemon out. However they often will have a fossil active and their Pokemon + more fossil/s.

Moltres attack only discards fire energy so semi-useful/useful energies that aren't fire are used as they aren't discarded when the attack is used.
Bubble coat was considered but not played to increase the consistency, after I decided Articuno is too inefficient to be played.
Any questions let me know, thanks very much!

SuperWooper

Pokemon: 1
1 Moltres

Trainers: 40
4 Felicity's Drawing
4 Cynthia's Feelings
4 Roseanne's Research
4 Night Maintenance
4 Skull Fossil
4 Energy Pickup
4 Energy Switch
3 Time-Space Distortion
3 Armor Fossil
3 Quick Ball
2 Marley's Request
1 Luxury Ball

Energy: 19
11 Fire
4 Recover
3 Cyclone
1 Water

I’ll keep this brief so that my PM will be read. =)

Looking at all the basics MD had to offer, two stuck out in my mind: Zapdos and Moltres. Zapdos had something going on with Old Amber - 80 for 3 and no discard, with no drawbacks. But Moltres OHKOs absolutely everything else in the set, and that kind of guarantee is just too tempting to resist, so I picked the legendary bird of fire.

Felicity’s work beautifully here because Moltres’s power feeds off fire energy in the discard. Cynthia’s are also quite potent because they work whenever a fossil dies, which shouldn’t happen more than once or twice in a match, but it’s still nice to know that you’ve got an easy eight cards coming your way. Rounding out the supporters are Roseanne’s Research and Marley’s Request, the latter of which I’ll get into later.

I’ve got 4 Night Maintenance and 3 Time-Space Distortion here because as soon as my Moltres dies and I promote a fossil, I want to get Moltres either back into my hand or into the deck right away, then play it back down on the bench and pray for a heads flip. If it goes back into the deck with Night Maintenance, I’ve got 4 Roseanne, 3 Quick Ball and 1 Luxury Ball that can search it out. I’m running more copies of NM because it’s simply more dependable. 3 tails isn’t a likely outcome in TSD, but it’s not impossible. I think that this enormously consistent basic-recovery engine is going to be what puts me over the top in the mirror match.

4 Energy Pickup is obvious, but 4 Energy Switch maybe a little less so. Moltres’s attack discards all fire attached, but Moltres’s power recovers three fire and the attack takes only two, so 4 copies of Energy Switch means 2 back-and-forths to and from a fossil and onto Moltres again later. The Water energy in the deck is to provide a Roseanne-able non-fire energy that can also be Night Maintenanced, and the Recover (anti-Articuno tech) and the Cyclones (these are just awesome in general) also help in your goal of discarding only two per turn.

Lastly, Marley’s Request is a great card in here. Want to make your opponent pull their hair out? Force them to choose between either Armor Fossil or Skull Fossil. Make them pick between either Night Maintenance or TSD. How about Quick Ball or Luxury Ball (the reason for the 3/1 split)? It’s also great for recovering a supporter in case you’re low on draw. Really neat little card to play in a deck like this.

Woohoo…A perfect mirror! Since these guys are relying on the exact same thing, I’ll skip card use/creativity, and instead just focus on lists…
Lists: more or less, the same…So, what is different?
David relies on Stark Mountain and Super Scoop Up ; SuperWooper relies on Energy Switch and (to some extent) Marley’s.
Which is better?
In my opinion, the Stark is more reliable, but it has a few negative metagame implications. Since Moltres is obviously popular in this hypothetical metagame , it sometimes _hurts_ to actually rely on the Mountain, whereas something like Energy Switch is clear-cut: it helps you and ONLY you! However, you still have control over when you play Stark, and it’s obvious that this metagame isn’t just Moltres…There are a ton of good basics in MD! Overall, I give a slight edge to the stark.
What really gives David brownie points are the SSU’s. Those can make a huge difference, and certainly win you the game where you would otherwise lose.

Preliminary winner: Davidy321. With so little difference in consistency between the two of them, and with both of them picking the same card, I had to go with what seemed like the best recovery list. At this time, it seems as if David's is, unless I am convinced otherwise.

~~~Blazing_Monkey VS Brady1~~~
Blazing_Monkey

Name: Blazing_Monkey
Division: 4

Pokemon (1)
1 Palkia (GE)

Trainers (48)
4 PokeHealer+
4 Potion
4 PokeDrawer+
4 PokeBlower+
4 PlusPower
4 Felicity's Drawing
2 Snowpoint Temple
4 Energy Pickup
4 Marley's Request
4 Buck's Training
4 Leftovers
3 TGW
3 Roseanne's Research

Energies (11)
11 Water Energy

Strategy: Since you said that we assumed everyone plays 1 basic Pokemon, it made
it easier, Palkia's attack is just perfect for this kind of rules. The
main strat is to get a t2/3 Transback, and just send back your opponent's
Pokemon on the top of your opponent's deck if you're lucky. Energy Pickup+
Felicity's Drawing helps me to attack faster. On ti, I can search for a
Snowpoint temple with Special Rend. I need to heal alot, taht explains the
4 Potion, Healer and Leftovers. If I can't get Transback in fast enough, I
can always try and donk with 4 PlusPowers, Blowers and Buck's.

Brady1

Ingredient: Skarmory from Great Encounters:
Pokémon (1):
1 Skarmory
Energy (14):
4 Special Metal
7 Basic Metal
3 Health Energy
Trainers (45):
4 Potion
4 Plus power
4 Leftovers
4 Pokehealer+
4 Pokeblower+
4 Pokedrawer+
4 Buck’s
4 Oak’s Visit
4 Professor Rowan
4 Pokedex handy909ish
4 Snowpoint Temple
1 Speed Stadium

Why no fossils?
Fossils, while good on paper (opponent must KO 6 Pokémon instead of one) require a lot of deck space by themselves and also require ways to get your Pokémon out. This is quite problematic, and the list will suffer from lack of damage output and space needed for consistency for getting the Pokémon out. Overall, fossils would only hurt the deck and it’s best to go turbo with this type of deck.


This rounds challenge required us to pick a basic *from Great encounters* and build a deck around it. With this in mind, there are two types of focuses: Hard hitting and walling. Skarmory is an amazing pick because it meets both of these credentials. It’s first attack does a very impressive 20 for 1 but also can negate an energy attachment (“aggressive walling”). It’s second attack does a low 40 for 3 but also reduces any damage Skarmory takes by 20 (more aggressive walling). With these ideas in mind, the rest of the deck followed.
4 Special metal to help Skarmory live and to pay for it’s attack’s energy cost. 7 Basic metal to gain favorable odds of drawing into one if you don’t start with a special metal. 3 Health energy because the Skarmory is the only Pokémon in the deck and it must live at all costs, therefore adding as many healing cards as possible is the idea to help him wall.
4 Potion for healing. 4 Plus Power for the possible t2 and for OHKOs against fossils/random Pokémon. 4 leftovers for additional healing and also to negate any negatives occurred when KOing a skull/claw fossil. 4 Pokehealer for additional healing (nothing like reducing 40+ and healing 80). 4 Pokeblower for additional damage (on a flip) and to play around any fossils that might be seen. 4 Pokedrawer for search/draw (helpful for getting healers/blowers/special energy). 4 Buck’s for additional damage and draw. 4 oak’s visit for additional draw in situations. 4 Professor Rowan for additional draw and to help find the poke+ cards. 4 Pokedex for minor search/draw. 4 Snowpoint temple because, although every deck in this format gains an advantage off of it, Skarmory can use this extra 20 hp for a much greater result than any other Pokémon. 90 hp is nearly impossible to OHKO, especially with steel wing and special metals in effect (the only Pokémon that can OHKO Skarmory with Snowpoint in play are groundon, latios, rayquaza, and Moltres, all of which take a long time to power up). Once Skarmory takes a hit he could otherwise not live from, he can simply heal it off via potion, leftovers, health energy, and Pokehealer+ and continue waking at the opponent’s hp. The speed stadium is used as a counter stadium, useful for throwing an opponent off guard for a prize, especially when they have a fossil on the bench or their main hitter is hiding behind a fossil.

Comments:

Lists:
8/10 for both.
Creativity:
Blazing_Monkey: 2/5
Brady1: 3/5.
Usage:
Blazing_Monkey: 3/5
Brady1: 4/5
Preliminary winner: Brady1. Both of them have the same weaknesses (Luster Purge, Transback, weakness ohko’s), and the same issues. But, because Brady’s idea works better as a wall than Blazing's, and because it works better in a metagame full of fossils, I decided to ultimately give him the nod.

 

[davidy321]

Preliminary winner: Davidy321. With

Is this sentence incomplete? Just wondering

 

[Jason]

Yay for DavidY to make onto T8. I agree on Kettler's decision for the match.

Blazing Monkey lost? Bleh. Both players' list seems to be really good however I personally like Palkia best over Skarmory. Lolz.

 

[Dante63s]

Congratulations to aAcutin for making top8!

 

[Brady1]

Yay for DavidY to make onto T8. I agree on Kettler's decision for the match.

Blazing Monkey lost? Bleh. Both players' list seems to be really good however I personally like Palkia best over Skarmory. Lolz.

In a one-on-one match or in general? Skarmory lives from alot more then palkia does and has a rather sick first attack. Its funny how we both went for the walling design, but with different objectives. I don't think palkia works at all as a wall though, unlike skarmory, which has alot of power to live. Anyways, I think BT deserves a 4 in creativity. I never would've picked out onix from stormfront, and he does counter 2 of the big cards from that format (whiffs on a t2 scyther counter but...).

 

[Burninating_Torchic]

After submitting my list I realized it wasn't the greatest it could be, but I didn't think it was THAT bad... 6/10... yeesh.
I suppose I underestimated the importance of recovery cards, or something - but the lack of the felicities/energy pickup combo was an intentional choice that I perhaps should've explained, if that's what you're referring to.
Personally I think it relies too much on getting the right cards in your hand and having good luck with coin flips, and is therefore a waste of space.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

elaboration (can't just edit this into the sentence because of odd settings on this subforum): It's a waste of space because of how many card spaces it must use. If it was only 4 slots, it'd be fine, but it has to be 7-8 to work properly, and that's just way too much wasted space in this format.

 

[Rainbowgym]

BT - It's not that bad, it's because in this format you should have had at least 1 or 2 Night Maintenance and 2-3 Great/Quick Ball. This is what costed you 1 or even 2 points.

 

[Zumanity]

Well, when I sent in my list I didn't know we could have fossils as back ups, thought it was 1v1, seems that hurt my grade. And also I thought we were aiming for creative decks not one that would win against everything or i would have picked groudon like everyone assumed for the LA division. Just my thoughts, Anyways it was fun getting this far, good luck to everyone still in.

 

[bullados]

Acutin:

Deck: I really like Energy Pickup and Felicity in these decks. It’s quite possibly the single fastest way to get stuff going. I would’ve liked to have seen some of the + cards in there. Blower and Healer are particularly good in this format. I don’t think that 3 Cynthia are necessary here. Best fossils in the format, good choices.
8/10

Creativity: There isn’t much in SF outside of Gigas. It’s quite an obvious choice. And the list is kinda standard. 2/5

Card Use: Gigas has a boat of HP. Use that boat! Healer would’ve been inspired in this deck. Also, it’s kinda difficult to get Gigas powered outside of that combo. Combos that rely on a flip don’t fly nicely with me. 2/5
= 12/20

BT:

Deck: Even with Onix being a beast and probably not getting KO’d quickly, you really need to have some form of card recovery in here. Were you really expecting to win on two Onix? You need some way of getting 6 Onix into play. Blower and Healer are awesome cards in this format. Marley won’t work here, as you’ve just got too much going on. Excavator is a waste of a Supporter, I’d rather play POV or Cynthia over that. Warp and Cyclone really make this deck sing, though. Recover should be used more often.
4/10

Creativity: You’re going for something other than Gigas. Good. I’d’ve tried Misdreavous or something similar. But still. Not a bad choice. I love Handy in this deck! 4/5

Card Use: Good in making sure Onix stays alive. Lots of healing. Lots of power.3/5
= 11/20

BT wins this one for me.

------------------------------------------------

Noir:

Deck: You’re trying to take advantage of Yanma’s staying power. That’s good. You forgot the Fossils. That’s bad. In fact, it’s pretty much vital to the deck’s function. You need to get to your cards quickly, or you don’t stand a chance. Wager and Mars are inspired choices for this format, and Snowpoint is nice to have even if it also helps your opponent. You have Pluspower, but no Buck. Felicity without Pickup. This isn’t a good list, no matter how you slice it.
4/10

Creativity: Strange but inspired choices all around. Wager and Mars are great in the format, as are Dex and Snowpoint. Yanma is weird, but weird is good for this part! 4/5

Card use: Yeah. I pretty much went over this in the Deck part. Yanma needs to have something to Uturn with on the first turn, something to hide behind until it gets those two energy. 3/5
= 11/20

Magnechu:

Deck: Good use of Fossils, though I would’ve used Shield over Claw in this deck. As stated many times, Blower is gosu. Even without Felicity, Pickup is a pretty nice choice. All of the necessities are in there, and Stark Mountain is inspired, as it both trumps Snowpoint and helps Groudon considerably. 8/10

Creativity: Yeah, there were a LOT of good cards in LA. Groudon was one of the better ones. I could’ve also seen either of the Gigas, Ray, or Kyogre, amongst others. Nothing in the list screams “I’M CREATIVE”, but Groudon isn’t exactly the most obvious choice in the meta. 3/5

Card use: Thank your lucky stars the Groudon is weak to Grass. Kyogre is a BEAST in this format. There’s a lot that resists Fighting, but his attack is just too big to be ignored. Needs Pluspowers to take out Ray. 3/5
= 14/20

Winner: Magnechu

Davidy321:

Deck: I’d like to see one more Night Maintenance in here. I’ve gotten triple Cyclops too many times to rely on 4 TSD as my savior. While we’re at it, might at well toss in a couple more Quick Ball. Stark is inspired. Those Warps should probably be Switches instead, especially with Cyclone in the deck. In this deck, I’d rather see Shield and Skull over Claw and Root. More defensive power combined with more offensive power. I likes. Overall, it’s nice, but it could be better. 8/10

Creativity: Moltres is one of the top 3 or 4 Basics in this set. It’s quite an obvious choice. Needs more Wager to get a better score. 2/5

Card Use: Super Scoop and Stark really take advantage of Moltres’ strengths. Big damage with big risks. It could use more consistent recovery. 4/5
= 14/20

SuperWooper:

Deck: Moltres without Super Scoop? That’s not good. I’d rather see Stark instead of or in addition to Energy Switch. Marley does nothing, period, especially in this format. I like the Recovery, though. That’s some great ability to come back. 4 Cynthia is probably not necessary. Recover is nice, but not necessary. Why the one Water? 7/10

Creativity: See above. Not much else going on here. 2/5

Card Use: No Super Scoop and no Stark really hamper Moltres’ effectiveness. Moltres is a good choice for this format, but there are so many more ways to make it better. There’s some good stuff in here, especially the Pickup and the Recovery engine. Still, it’s not enough. 3/5
= 12/20

Winner: Davidy123

 

[Brady1]

^How does bt win with 11>12?

 

[bullados]

bah... Me = st00pid... Acutin gets it for me... Sry, long freaking day...

 

[davidy321]

I liked Stark because the only way you can't KO all the Pokemon in MD is if they play something with 90HP+ and Snowpoint Temple. Imo, you need a counter to this (i.e. a counter gym) and Stark seemed to be the best choice for this. Yes, snow point helps you too, but will by far obviously help an Articuno deck (as an example) more than you.

It should arguably help you more than your opponent in the mirror as you planned/expected it, i.e. your strategy already knows you have the Stark where as they shouldn't.

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

I may do grades later, but for people arguing about SSU in the Moltres matchup, you do realize 4 SSU=1 more Moltres power? =/ I do not think using 4 spaces for one more power was essential at all.

 

[Brady1]

I may do grades later, but for people arguing about SSU in the Moltres matchup, you do realize 4 SSU=1 more Moltres power? =/ I do not think using 4 spaces for one more power was essential at all.

Thats one more prize, while saving 2 prizes. Thats a huge prize differenece and definately justifys 4 spaces.

 

[Blazing_Monkey]

Oh well, at least I got in t16.

gl davidy, you're the only person from Asia left. :x

 

[davidy321]

Thats one more prize, while saving 2 prizes. Thats a huge prize differenece and definately justifys 4 spaces.

I'm sure it's something simple that I've missed but how are you saving two prizes?

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I'm sure it's something simple that I've missed but how are you saving two prizes?

Oh well, at least I got in t16.

gl davidy, you're the only person from Asia left. :x

Since when was New Zealand part of Asia

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I'm sure it's something simple that I've missed but how are you saving two prizes?

Oh well, at least I got in t16.

gl davidy, you're the only person from Asia left. :x

Since when was New Zealand part of Asia

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OMG sorry for the above, I thought i was EDITTING the post =/

 

[Brady1]

haha wow thats actually really funny how that came out. Anyways, you're saving 2 prizes because I'm assuming that moltres lives from a hit (100 hp is alot) but won't surivive 2, so you ssu and save a prize. And none of these scores are final guys. X_X You can still put in input. lol

 

[SuperWooper]

Well, last time the preliminary decision was in my opponent's favor, too. The odds of changing your mind twice, Kettler, probably aren't so good. But let's see what I can do.

I agree that we should get the same point value in creativity and card use, but I really do feel like my list is superior, and here's why:

1) Consistency. You said in your writeup about our match:

But there is a huge difference in consistency. I am running 4 straight draw, 4 shuffle draw, and 8 searching cards. David is running 3 straight draw, 2 shuffle draw, and 7 searching cards. I am running 7 ways to put Moltres into the deck after it's died, he's running 6. In all but one of these categories, he's running just one less than me (in shuffle draw he's running two less), so that doesn't seem like a big deal on the surface. But when you add it all up, my list is going to be much more consistent. I think that David will be stuck with bad hands/no way to get Moltres back into the deck a lot more frequently than I will, so I think my list is my consistent.

2) I play one basic non-fire energy. This is huge, IMO. If by some terrible stroke of bad luck you can't find any of your Cyclones or Recovers (or Warp Energies, in David's case, although I don't know why he's running those - if your Moltres is in a position to hit for big and you need to put a non-fire on him, a Warp Energy might as well have the text "Kill a Fossil" on it), you have a way to keep from discarding all three fire. That way, one normal from-the-hand attachement plus one Energy Switch or Energy Pickup will do the job if you get the chance to hit for back-to-back 100s.

3) I don't run Super Scoop Ups. Yes, I think I should get points for not running them. See, Moltres gets OHKO'd by itself in the mirror, so you can't scoop it up after an attack to re-use the power. And in the Articuno matchup, Moltres is, again, OHKO'd, so you can't scoop it up. As far as failed come-into-play attempts go when you've just retrieved it with a Quick Ball or Roseanne's or something, I'm running 4 Energy Pickup and 4 Energy Switch, plus Marley's to force the opponent to pick between one of the two if necessary. I think that there will be many situations in which I'll be able to get off two of them plus my normal attachment. And finally, I'll refer you to Ross's post here, which points out that 4 SSU amounts to just one more Moltres power than you would usually get over the course of the entire game, because you've only got 25% odds of SSU succeeding and then Moltres succeeding.

4) I run Energy Switch over Stark Mountain. Stark Mountain is going to be countered by Snowpoint in the Zapdos and Articuno matchups, and since David plays only three of them, and less draw than I do (I still think the draw thing is huge), there will be more than a few times when all he's going to have to power up Moltres is Energy Pickups and the Tyrogue-esque SSU/Moltres combo. Lastly, Stark Mountain is a huge double-edged sword in the mirror, but you've already made that point, Kettler.

I think that the biggest thing that David has going for him is the Poke Blowers. When my list was "64 cards," Blowers were what I cut so that I wouldn't have to drop draw or Night Maintenances. But other than that, his deck runs less draw, less search, less recovery, and plays more flips, all of which are hinderances here.

SuperWooper:

Deck: Moltres without Super Scoop? That’s not good. I’d rather see Stark instead of or in addition to Energy Switch. Marley does nothing, period, especially in this format. I like the Recovery, though. That’s some great ability to come back. 4 Cynthia is probably not necessary. Recover is nice, but not necessary. Why the one Water? 7/10

Creativity: See above. Not much else going on here. 2/5

Card Use: No Super Scoop and no Stark really hamper Moltres’ effectiveness. Moltres is a good choice for this format, but there are so many more ways to make it better. There’s some good stuff in here, especially the Pickup and the Recovery engine. Still, it’s not enough. 3/5
= 12/20

12/20? Yeowch. Regardless of the score, some of your comments make me think that you only glanced at my list and didn't read my commentary from your comments. ;/

The Stark and E Switch stuff I said above, but I get that it's a matter of preference on those, so I won't put it down here again.

Marley doesn't do nothing, it forces decisions that can be huge. It acts as a fossil (they take their pick between two), or Moltres (Quick Ball, Luxury Ball, Roseanne's), or another way to recover Moltres (Night Maintenance, TSD), or another accelerating trainer (E Pickup, E Switch). Since I have such a low supporter count (compared to Modified decks, anyway), Marley's won't usually conflict with anything, here. I think it's a must play when you're running so many non-supporter trainers with similar effects.

Recover counters Articuno. Usually they're going to OHKO you, but if they miss the drop + pickup + switch combo to get it right back into a play and hit the heads on a paralysis flip while they build, recover lets you start attacking them without that delay.

The one Water is because you absolutely must have a non-fire attached to Moltres so that a simple pickup + drop will get you there next turn. If by some stroke of terrible luck I don't run into a Cyclone or Recover, despite the fact that I run seven to David's six, I can Roseanne for the water. Also, I can Night Maintenance it back into the deck after death so I'll never be without a non-fire on my guy.

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Ugh, typos abound. Wish there was an edit button.

Anyway, I just want to say good luck to davidy321. I feel pretty strongly about this one, but whoever wins, it was a good match. Always a nailbiter when it's a mirror like this.

 

[ryanvergel]

I think 3 Cynthis'a is a brilliant play, Bullados. While giving up so many prizes, especially fossil prizes, you might as well cynthia's for 8. I can tell you that after not playing Claydol in my Scizor/Cherrim deck and doing quite a bit of testing with that, a deck like this needs the huge draw power of Cynthia's. New hand of 8 is unparalleled, and necessary in a deck without claydol or Uxie. I think running 2 or less would be a HUGE misplay.

Notice Mikey and Magnechu and SuperWooper playing them (Magnechu running 4, which I would run in a deck giving fossil KOs- you want to get them out fast and always have one, and when you're giving up 40-50hp fossils, you might as well completely refresh your hand. Same with SW)

Anyone not running cynthia's (besides obviously Brady1, who shouldnt, and doesnt) is misplaying their draw.

I also think Onix and Regigigas are the obvious two cards from SF that you could use, and Onix seems very reliable. I don't see it as being more creative than regigigas. The 60 is enough to KO fossils, it has enough HP to use healer+ well, it has a slow start, too, but reduces damage. I don't see why you gave Acutin 2/5 and BT 4/5, because Onix looked just as obvious as Regigigas.

I like Acutin's strategy. Sit there and KO fossils all day because you survive most other basic's attacks, and if they DO promote their main pokemon, you do 100. With the energy links, every turn you should be attaching an energy, and you run plenty of basics with fossils, plus you want to use your own guy very often. You will likely accumalate energy onto a fossil, attaching every turn, and can use this fossil as an "energy bank". Should your opponent ever kill regi, bench your TSD'd/whatever Regi, and plop energy on him and KO their main attacker very easily and continue killing fossils.

It doesn't utilize healing, and should get MORE creativity because it didn't take the bait of just throwing a bunch of heal cards in. He realized that the opponent would only be doing damage with 1 pokemon, and with 100hp, and the ability to KO anything else, why have healing? You accelerate energy, unlike them, so you're prize exchange wins in the end very clearly. No need for healing.

Lists:
Acutin - 9/10. Overall, your list is excellent. However, I would still suggest a bit of healing, and definitely more basic energy (multi are really not that good in this build). I agree with Kettler.
BT - 6/10. The list is seriously lacking in energy recovery – a must for something big like Onix. Also, you are almost entirely dry of Pokemon replenishment cards. I agree with Kettler.
Creativity:
Acutin - 2/5. I think that most people would take the bait of going for lots of healing cards with Regi, and I personally like his energy link/bank idea, with pickups and the ability to OHKO anything, with lots of basic recovery. I think he stays away from the traps and pitfalls that other decks like these tend to encounter. I think he deserves a 3 here. He has a solid idea for using Regigigas, and we can't fault him because SF is a set with few other good basics (come on). 3/5
BT - 3/5. I didn't see much creativity in his card usage besides perhaps using Onix. 3/5

Card Usage in Format:
Acutin - 3/5. He could have used a few more cards from the set, but still used a decent amount. Good for his strategy, but still could've perhaps tried to use blower or healer. 3/5
BT - 4/5 3/5 here. Although he uses a LOT of SF cards, he doesn't use them effectively at all. You drop pokemon recovery and energy recovery for Marley's and Drawer+ (obviously not needed) and don't have cynthia's or stark or anything (even a few stark would allow you to bank energy on non-onixes to move active once you drop it, and acts as a countergym for people who could perhaps use dawn or something)

Acutin: 15
BT: 12

BT had used more SF cards, but didn't use them effectively, and overall his deck suffered because of it. If he hadn't gone overboard and perhaps removed the marley's and drawer, and pokedexes and other cards for some basic recovery or energy manipulation, or better draw, this might be a different contest. If he had gotten a 9 in overall list, and used the cards effectively and a bit more creatively (I didn't see much creativity in the trainers or energy) he would've been ahead by a good 2-3 points, netting a 17 or 18 points.

Acutin could have added a few more SF cards, but it might have detracted from his overall list. I think he was owed a bit more points, he had a very effective and creative strategy of instantly recycling energy, but I think healer+, blower, amulet coin? more basic energy (just go 5/5/5 and a cyclone or something, or status removal energy) was needed to boost up the usage points. Overall he probably could have gotten a 16 or 17 with a few adjustments, but he did a great job with a great list. I think if compared to all the other lists, he has one of the most effective strategies and ways to recover).

Winner: Acutin

 

[Brady1]

Wait, our score was determined if you use alot of cards from our set? Also, onix isn't really that obvious because of the fact that his offensive power is incredibly low and would be tossed aside pretty easily. I'm surprised nobody is talking about scyther in this group, or even shiney duskull (20 and a chance to stop energy attachment? Its at least creative).