Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Shuffling Cards

B

beatlerat

Member
I have been a Judge and Head Judge at several tournaments over the past year and I have a question concerning the way decks are shuffled. This is unlike the questions raised about using dice (which I will bring up later).

Most people I see shuffling decks between rounds either shuffle their decks by splitting the cards and then fanning them together or split the deck and force them together at an angle to achieve what I would consider a fair shuffle. Others place their cards one at a time face down in either eight or ten piles of cards then pick up the piles randomly and then shuffle as I described above. I would also consider this to be a legal shuffle.

What about those people who split their cards face up into three piles (Trainers, Energy, and Pokemon), and then randomly distribute those cards (effectively getting even distribution) into the eight or ten piles I described above. As I see it, they might as well place the cards in the order they would like. There are also those who shuffle during the game with their cards faced TOWARDS them so that they can put the card or cards they need on the top and bottom of the deck so if there is a CUT, it makes no difference, they get the card they need.
Are both methods of shuffling the same....certainly not. Are they both legal? I know many people that have come up to me after a match and complained. To catch someone ACTUALLY cheating during the game is very difficult to prove. But what about the pregame ritual? Face up or face down? Separate the cards or not? I do not allow face up shuffling in my league and just wondered if any one else has run across this.

Also on the dice. I don't like the use of the dice that have 10,30,50,70,90 on one side. I have seen 8 out of ten heads rolled consistently from these dice and I believe that gives an unfair advantage.
Thanks again
 
I don't think there is a solid rule about shuffling, but I definately think there should be one. I think if someone wanted to cheat it would be pretty easy. (Such as putting your evolutions together in your deck, shuffling upside down so you can see what will be near the top and bottom, or not shuffling enough.) I would love it if they made it so that your opponent could shuffle your deck and hand it back to you. Being able to cut a deck doesn't really stop cheating, it just stops from people putting cards on the top of the deck. (which is just one of the many ways to cheat)

Dice situations aren't great either, I think just a 6 sided dice should be allowed and should be rolled and dropped high enough so the dice rolls around and makes it so it is more random. Dice aren't too big of a problem from what I have seen though. A shuffling rule would definately cut down on the cheating and make things more fair. I dont see why people should be apposed to shuffling rule though, unless they were stacking the deck. The only reason I can see why this would not happen is because people are worried about their cards, but I'm sure your opponent will be carefull with them if you tell them.
 
if a player is unhappy with an opponent's shuffle then call a judge!

When you offer a deck to your opponent to cut, you are saying that This deck is randomised and I have no idea as to the order of the cards.

It isn't the shuffling that is the problem rather it is a lack of understanding about randomisation. I've cautioned players in the past that what they have done by thier shuffle isn't randomisation but would better be described as stacking. They usually get the hint and shuffle properly to randomise their deck.
 
For me, I like to separate my trainers, energy, and pokemon into 3 piles. Then I fairly evenly shuffle them. After that, I do a number of random shuffles.

If I was judging and saw a player not doing a number of random shuffles after interleaving their deck, I'd probably give a Stacking penalty.

Regarding shuffling with the card-faces towards you (as far away from your opponent's view as possible), that's just good gamesmanship. You DON'T want your opponent to know what's in your deck. Now, if it appears that you're shuffling in an attempt to get a particular card on top, that's easy for an opponent to disrupt by randomly cutting the deck. Thus, the requirement at my tournaments for players to offer their opponent to cut their deck after all shuffles.
 
All players should be encouraged to shuffle their opponents deck every time the cards are handled. There was an MTG article that suggested that seven riffle shuffles was the optimum number to randomize a deck.

If a player shuffles the cards in a manner that allows him to see the cards then he is cheating.

For fairness, I think that we should go to 20 sided dice. I don't think that anyone can control the roll on a 20 sided dice.
 
well i see some ppl nkows tat their opp's deck has a few holos and then when they cut the deck,they just look for the foils and put them in the bottom of the deck
 
With the whole shuffle thing, as far as i'm concerned when you're offered to cut, you should be able to shuffle. Shuffling/Cutting is still moving cards around in a deck. And yet people have problems with it. Well I don't understand why....because either way cards are being moved..so unless they're stacking--there shouldn't be a problem.

I've even asked a few judges, some agreed, some disagreed. What do you all think?
 
Doesn't matter what we think.
PUI floor rules allow you to shuffle an offered deck.
They then get one final cut of your shuffle.
 
hmm lets see...
after my opponent shuffles my deck and hands it back, i always ask them to cut it one last time, so that they dont know my opening hand if they did look.
Also I sometimes look at my deck and rearrange energy out of big clumps in my deck before i shuffle with riffle, this is still random, i still shuffle afterwards, and i think its fine. i also use 7-pile which is imo the best.
 
I always shuffle when the deck is offered to me. I've had only one player complain at which point
I told him "Either I can shuffle it or a judge can shuffle it, but it's getting shuffled." Funny funny stuff.
 
Adv1sor said:
If a player shuffles the cards in a manner that allows him to see the cards then he is cheating.
Click to expand...
Give me a break. I'm going to have some fun with your statement: :) :p

I think you meant to say "...allows him to see the card faces..." Otherwise, I guess I'm cheating if I look at any part of the cards while I'm shuffling. Does that mean I have to close my eyes or look the other way while I'm shuffling? :p

By your definition (with my improvement to your statement), anyone who can view any part of their card faces while shuffling, they're cheating. I challenge you to go give someone a cheating penalty for doing that.

It's SOOOO easy to disrupt any opponent's deck whom you suspect might know what's on top of their shuffled deck. Thus, my suggestion to my players to ALWAYS cut/shuffle their opponent's deck.

Let's not go overboard on this and become "shuffle Nazi's!" :rolleyes: :cool:
 
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If you can see the cards while you 'shuffle' THEN YOU AREN'T RANDOMISING YOUR DECK.

--

Seven perfect riffles gets the deck back to exactly its original order!
 
JasonthePwnda said:
hmm lets see...
after my opponent shuffles my deck and hands it back, i always ask them to cut it one last time, so that they dont know my opening hand if they did look.
Also I sometimes look at my deck and rearrange energy out of big clumps in my deck before i shuffle with riffle, this is still random, i still shuffle afterwards, and i think its fine. i also use 7-pile which is imo the best.
Click to expand...
This stacks the deck and certainly does not give a true rando result despite you shuffling again. It is a typical L33t behaviour and one that results in me shuffling the deck again afterwards! You can cut it then but you are not stacking your deck when you play me!

Too many perfect set ups make me suspicious of the shuffle, truely random will mean you deck will choke on you at least once in a tourney and then the true skill is in trying to recover.

My advice don't look at your cards when you shuffle and certainly don't stack your deck!
 
Hmm, seems similar to in magic, if you place you deck in three piles, land spells and creatures, and put them together in order it is consiered "stacking" your deck. If I remember correctly your opponent has the right to determine if your deck has been sufficiently randomized before they give it back to you, then ALL you can do is cut it, and if you shuffle it any more, then your opponent would get another chance to shuffle and or cut it. Is that correct?
 
If you can see the card faces while shuffling, you have information about your deck that you should not have. You have a pretty good feel of what cards are where (particularly what is at the bottom and, if you are using easily identifiable cards, such as the Regis, you see where they are in the deck as well).

It may not be a penalty, but a judge should make the person shuffle while not viewing the card faces.
 
Here's what PUI/Nintendo floor rules have to say about shuffling

"Shuffling
Players are required to sufficiently randomize their deck at the start of the match, before
presenting it to their opponent for his or her deck to be cut and/or shuffled."

Given this, a weaved deck is easy to counter. Simply three pile shuffle the deck. It will put the cards in order. Your opponent can not reshuffle or cut the deck. It usually results in a mulligan and another "blind" reshuffle and a cut/reshuffle cycle.
 
Here's what I do:

When I go home, I seperate into 3 piles, trainers / nrgs / pokemon.

THEN I turn over the cards all faced down, and I randomly put one card on top of each other, and then when I get to my league, I cut shuffle, like I cut the deck about 20-30 times, I think that randomizes it, I always let my opponent cut if s/he so wishes, so no one has yet to call a judge/ tell me I'm cheatin.
 
psycodad said:
... Given this, a weaved deck is easy to counter. Simply three pile shuffle the deck. It will put the cards in order. Your opponent can not reshuffle or cut the deck.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you shuffle your opponent's deck, they have the right to cut it. Even so, you have "unweaved" the deck. ;)

BDS
 
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