First Turn Supporters
- Thread starter Jaeger
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Sabett
Active Member
That's way too abusive
This has been suggested and answered. It only makes donk decks better.
And it's always going to be there? It's not even in your starting hand most of the time.
No matter how you change the rules, someone is going to get the short end of the deal. Can Player one donk? Yes, Can player 2 Donk? Yes. Is sucks getting a donk turn 1, but thats how it goes. If you wanna avoid turn 1 donks. Prevent everyone from attacking turn 1. Each player can use Supporters, Stadiums, and Trainers. This gives them a chance to build up before attacks come. But Pokemon USA follows the rules set by Japan so that everyone is playing the same game and going by the same rules. If you wanna complain about the rules, talk to those who set the rules in the first place.
travis3290
New Member
about the whole attacks not working for anyones turn 1
heres how that would play out
player 1:
sets up everything he needs for his deck to run, stadium, blah blah blah, and then turn ends
player 2:
sets up everything he needs for his deck to run, stadium, blah blah blah, and then turn ends
player 1:
now set up, furthers his setup and goes to town on the other player, ruining there setup.
the idea of attacks not working is abysmal. I said it already but people just need to let it go. worried about donks? run more basics. realize the meta doesnt change for you, you change for the meta.
heres how that would play out
player 1:
sets up everything he needs for his deck to run, stadium, blah blah blah, and then turn ends
player 2:
sets up everything he needs for his deck to run, stadium, blah blah blah, and then turn ends
player 1:
now set up, furthers his setup and goes to town on the other player, ruining there setup.
the idea of attacks not working is abysmal. I said it already but people just need to let it go. worried about donks? run more basics. realize the meta doesnt change for you, you change for the meta.
Sabett
Active Member
Woah, going first is good again? Also, crippled setup>losing without being able to do anything about it.
I think on the first turn you should be able to play supporters, but you can't use powers or retreat. That way you can't roseannes for a Sableye and expect a donk because you can't retreat. Sure it might help the donking person with sableye with getting an energy, but the most common deck running sableye doesn't even run roseannes so I think it helps more often than not.
Running more Basics does mean an increase in chance of getting more than one basic at the start. But even at that, you still have a chance of getting donked. True the odds are lower, but it's still possible. And should you run more basics, later in the game you now have cards that are dead draws. I run 4 on all my basics except bench sitters, but even at that i can still get donked. Run a 4-2 line of claydol? Please, now you have two useless Baltoys in your deck that can take up much needed space. It also turns into a deck loaded with basics, and that's about all you get in most games. Constantly dumping the basics to get stage 1 or 2's, when you could be using a Bebe's or something useful to get what you need. In the amount of games i've played, i've rarely been donked. And i don't load up on basics either. It's a matter of balancing the deck out with what you need to make it consistent. But you also know going into the Game that you can get donked. And i think People are just gonna have except that it does and will happen. It's a game of Strategy, but also a game of chance in getting your deck setup fast. I've also had games where i got 2 basics, only to run into a roadblock when trying to get it going. And lose the match because i just couldn't draw into anything i needed.
Sabett
Active Member
Why accept chance when it can be easily replaced with strategy?
Charizard3712
New Member
Okay the reason for there being alot of T1 donks is bc everyone plays an average of 10 basic pokemon and with a 60 card deck that gives you about a 6% chance of getting those basic pokemon out. So most people will start with at least 1 or 2 basic pokemon, if you really wanted to prevent getting donked, then put more basic pokemon in your deck, play an SP deck or tech in more basics to help you out and you SHOULD never have just 1 pokemon starter. But at least with the format next season the game will slow down and we shouldn't see this problem occuring that often. As for who has the advantage going first, the Pokemon Co. designed the game to make it as even as possible, whoever goes first gets to draw, set up as much as possible and attack(you get to attack first) then whoever goes second gets to draw, play T/S/S and then attack(you get to play T/S/S first) it's not the Pokemon Co.'s fault that people are making their decks the way they are today. If you played a starter deck Vs. a starter deck, both decks would play the way pokemon was intended to be played. Well that's my opinion anyway.
So your saying that Chance has no effect on your deck no matter what you do to it?
Sabett
Active Member
That's the way that the card developers have made the format to be, that number of basics, and yes, the way we play pokemon today was also intentional. A starter deck Vs. another starter deck is ironically as far as you can get from the intended way to play pokemon. This is clearly shown by the obvious archetypes developed by pokemon card developers. SP wasn't an accident, and neither was all of their trainer support.
Also, I don't know why you think the format is slowing down next rotation, the fastest deck doesn't change at all.
No, that's not what I said at all. You're saying there's chance in the game, accept it. I'm saying why accept it when that chance can be replaced with strategy?
I don't even clearly see what you're saying. Why wouldn't chance have an affect? It always does. Are you talking about manipulating the numbers in your deck to change the chance of getting a bad start? You've already disputed that point in your own post, and I've disputed it in this post in saying that these sort of decks is exactly what's being fed into the format to play.
All i'm saying is this. So far Most People say to add more Basics to increase your chances of getting more than 1 Basic at start. You really only have two options. Run a lot of basics as i've mentioned before, which has the effect of being too many basics and you lose Consistency in the deck. Or run a balanced, 10-12, amount of basics and keep consistency. But even at running that amount, i have been donked before. I normall run 4 Bebe's, 4 Rosy's 1 Luxury Ball, 2 Uxie's, a 2-2 Claydol line with various other Trainer/Supporters. And i've still been donked in Turn 1. Strategy is a Major Player, Yes. But Chance also has a huge effect on getting a Good Start or not. Sooner or later you'll get donked Turn 1. Odds that it will happen are lower with more basics, but every game played with the same deck is different.
I agree that we all should just play the game and have fun, however, if you get T1 donked, then you aren't really playing that much are you?
Quick Draw
New Member
Stopped reading right there.
10 basic pokemon in a 60 card deck means about 16.66% of the deck is basic pokemon.
Now, you also get eight cards in your starting hand (after you draw one too)
Now, by these calculations you should end up with 1 pokemon in hand. as 16% is about one in six cards. meaning that there is a greater chance of you starting with two basics, as opposed to none, you'll still probably start with one basic.
Now, everyone is playing these decks with an average with 10 basics because they win. Ok? if you add too many you'll just end up with too many unplayable cards being clogged up in your hand when you could've used that rare candy or expert belt so much more.
JandPDS
New Member
Personally I would perfer to see the game move in the opposite direction. I would like to see the player going first stay the same. They can play pokemon and energy. Nothing else. Then I would like the player going second to be able to play Pokemon, energy, trainers and stadiums.
Then on turn 2 the player going 1st can play pokemon, energy, trainers, stadiums and Supporters.
So no supports by either player on the first turn. That would greatly limit the ammount of donks in games.
At the final battle road championship in washington the Junior finals ended with the player going 2nd Donking T1 with Pachirisu. Then in game #2 the player that lost game one chose to go 2nd and Donked T1 with Machamp, So there were two turns played and the championship was already in game #3. At least that game did not have a donk and the players played out a full game finally.
Then on turn 2 the player going 1st can play pokemon, energy, trainers, stadiums and Supporters.
So no supports by either player on the first turn. That would greatly limit the ammount of donks in games.
At the final battle road championship in washington the Junior finals ended with the player going 2nd Donking T1 with Pachirisu. Then in game #2 the player that lost game one chose to go 2nd and Donked T1 with Machamp, So there were two turns played and the championship was already in game #3. At least that game did not have a donk and the players played out a full game finally.
Sabett
Active Member
Issues with using trainers:
Ambipom using energy gain.
Sabeleye or anything using expert belt.
Can someone please tell me the issue with not attacking your opponent within the first turns of the game? Because to me it looks like it solves the problem 100%, and can even let going first be a reward as apposed to a punishment without being game breaking.
Ambipom using energy gain.
Sabeleye or anything using expert belt.
Can someone please tell me the issue with not attacking your opponent within the first turns of the game? Because to me it looks like it solves the problem 100%, and can even let going first be a reward as apposed to a punishment without being game breaking.
ShuckleLVX
Active Member
Really? Jumpluff is slowing down a whole ton.
Sabett
Active Member
Then we simply disagree on what the fastest deck is.
The problem with that is that we aren't playing Yu-Gi-Oh:nonono:
But all joking aside, I personally believe that not being able to attack on the first turn of the game would be the best option.
Absoltrainer
Active Member
You know how you fix donks?
PLC needs to quit printing cards that do 10000000 damage for 1 energy.
And SP Pokemon don't count because E-gain makes every 2 energy attack a 1 energy attack
PLC needs to quit printing cards that do 10000000 damage for 1 energy.
And SP Pokemon don't count because E-gain makes every 2 energy attack a 1 energy attack
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