My concern for Darkrai/Hydreigon, and don't get me wrong I really like the deck, is if you run solely Dark Deino your Deinos are hurt horribly by Landman EX. If you run only Dragon Deino you run the risk of DRV Rayquaza starts donking your Deinos. I would be happy to see Skyla/CPU Search provide a consistency boost, but BDIF I would say not. I'm not saying Eels (for baby ray) or soup du jour deck running Landorus EX is BDIF either, but when one of your key Pokemon is easily donked by two easily popular decks it seems like it is a scary play to me.
Bdif
- Thread starter Link of knights
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CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
eeh, i guess but if you go w/ that logic every deck that just isn't "big" basic is a bad play thanks to tornadus ex which could be popular w/ first ticket
Then shouldn't people playing Eel's for that matter be afraid of getting donked due to Tyanmo starts? Same odds starting with a Deino then a Tynamo. Heck tynamo's would get donked MUCH more (mewtwo, landorus, ray) and deino only would get donked by a rayquaza but you still see eel's around.
CrystalEyeMonster
New Member
What is this? Six Corners doing good?
I hope you know Ether is not in the set, and I'm guessing this is based of off Japanese stuff.
LibertyFigter
New Member
Disagreed. I use heavy Tornadus EX in my Eels, and it helps a lot : ). I honestly think Rayeels has more trouble with Landorus, as it absolutely needs Tynamos in order to stream attackers. With Zekeels, worst case scenario, I DCE+attach to a Tornadus EX and just fight it out. Although Rayeels can do that with normal Rayquaza, Landorus is just a bit bulkier.
Anywho, I disagree simply based on how I play Zekeels. Which is not necessarily the norm.
Let me clarify my logic as it wasn't coming off as intended. Yes the argument can be made for anything not a big bad basic. What I more mean is I feel it would keep either deck from being bdif imo. To me one requirement to be bdif would be no common chance of being donked. I feel there is a healthy amount of tier 1 decks, but none of them are the BEST deck in format in my opinion. Its one thing for a true bdif to get donked by crazy luck but I consider it to not be a bdif if there are common ways to be donked. Its unfortunate to see your starting Darkrai EX donked by Magikarp's Soggy Rush but that would not be something that takes away from it being a bdif if there was a Darkrai based deck that was considered BDIF.
PidgeyCornerFTW
New Member
Whatever deck that thepliskin posts up next on the Deck Help section will be the BDIF.
LibertyFigter
New Member
Empoleon/Terrakion is hurt quite a bit with a big, bad, hyped archetype (Keldeo/Blastoise) coming on the scene that isn't weak to Terrakion. I was an Empoleon player myself, and I just don't see it maintaining its viabiity.
That being said, Empoleon/Mew EX/Accelgor and Empoleon/Mew EX seem to be doing well in Japan... which surprises me, but is good to note. So I guess it remains to be seen.
As for Ho-Oh, I still think it is quite good. It has the same inconsistency problems, same issue with relying on flips, etc... but it still is one of the most versatile and quick decks out there. It is also intriguing, according to my testing, how good Tornadus EX will be in the next format. Maybe Ho-oh can use that to swing matchups in its favor. I haven't tested it though, but I would say at least give it a try. Seems possibly viable : ).
Chompy
Active Member
Ho-Oh: The biggest obstacle for Ho-Oh is trying to avoid the Blastoise/Keldeo matchup as minimal as possible. Unfortunately, many people are going to be playing that deck, and there is no way that a Ho-Oh deck can win cities. I mean if you left a Ho-Oh sitting on the bench, that means 2 free prizes from Keldeo ex off from a catcher. Even if they were going to attack with Mewtwo ex, you can bring up your own Mewtwo ex and revenge kill right back at them. The Ho-Oh deck is inconsistent and it is too slow to keep up with the race against the Blastoise Keldeo deck.
Empoleon: It will have problems trading prizes back and forth with Keldeo ex. The only good thing about Empoleon is Landorus ex, which is going to be a popular deck for cities to come. Garchomp is too fast for Empoleon, and your opponent would know better to not bench a Landorus down. Being that Empoleon needs a full bench to deal decent damage means that Flygon would love to score multiple cheap knock outs at once, thanks to Flygons ability. Spreading 10 damage to each of their Pokemon in between turns means your essentially dealing 60 per turn (If the Empoleon player had 6 pokemon on their side), and Dusknoir can make things worse by moving the damage around, thus limiting the uses of running Terrakion in there.
I am a little confused about the Keldeo Ex vs Empoleon discussion going on here. The strength of Empoleon vs any deck with a big EX is that Empoleon has a good chance of two shotting any EX while any non electric EX generally has to two shot Empoleon in return. So the prize trade is in the Empoleon player's favor. It is only when the Empoleon opponent can one shot Empoleon, such as with big basic Electric or a Garchomp with many Altaria's, or a Hydreigon's Dragonblast, that the noble penguin gets steamrollered.
Keldeo EX cannot one shot an Empoleon without 5 energies attached or with four and a plus power. So a question for those of you testing Keldeo EX/Blastoise. How quickly does a Keldeo EX/Blastoise deck get that many energies onto a Keldeo EX? Just as important, once that first Keldeo EX goes down, how quickly can you get another one ready?
Keldeo EX cannot one shot an Empoleon without 5 energies attached or with four and a plus power. So a question for those of you testing Keldeo EX/Blastoise. How quickly does a Keldeo EX/Blastoise deck get that many energies onto a Keldeo EX? Just as important, once that first Keldeo EX goes down, how quickly can you get another one ready?
Otaku
Active Member
"Best Deck In Format" is incredibly difficult to determine, and I have rarely been convinced it has been established. You genreally only have a BDIF when something is incredibly overpowered, to the point where a player must actually run it or lose; no counter decks built around it can be remotely successful.
In short, we are talking reliable donk decks or true lock decks or at least something so grossly overpowered compared to everything else (Haymaker pre Gym sets) to be a BDIF. We aren't going to figure out the current one anytime soon, if it even exists in an identifiable state.
In short, we are talking reliable donk decks or true lock decks or at least something so grossly overpowered compared to everything else (Haymaker pre Gym sets) to be a BDIF. We aren't going to figure out the current one anytime soon, if it even exists in an identifiable state.
fluttercraft
New Member
as a darkrai/hydregion player myself i my self rarely being donked. i play 4 dragon denios and i have only been donked in a tournament 1 time. 4/5 i have more than just 1 basic in my opening hand and even when denio is my only starter by the end of my first turn i have a 2nd basic. skyla and computer search only increase this consistency.
fluttercraft
New Member
i dont think that a deck based around mewtwo will be bdif but mewtwo will be a tech in a large number of t1 decks
exactly one you kill their techs then mewtwo has free reign to wreek havoc. eels runs more mewtwos and usually wins the mewtwo wars so once you win the mewtwo war just plug a huge mewtwo and OHKO stuff. the early game pressure is amazing too because it gives you time to set up your eels
You do that then I go either aggro Cresselia Ex or aggro Sigilyph