Tournament Organizer Gary Warren

[ryanvergel]

For the record, me being the PTO of Alabama. Gary was only running a BR up north of Alabama. I will still have events up that way and I will still have an Alabama states this season. That being said, it is sad to see Gary go and I wish him the best no matter the reason for this.

Yes, I know Gary didn't organize AL states, I was just citing his contribution for building the playerbase in AL, along with you (the organizer I made reference to). You also organized the first PR in Tallahassee I think- which I went to!

AL states was a lot of fun, and I am glad that you will be running it this year. I was just trying to show that Gary had a significant contribution to building up a playerbase that was virtually nonexistent for many years.

 

[ryanvergel]

Jason, we truly don't know what happened. Judging by some of the people TPCi hasn't banned yet, I'd venture to say that there either is something very serious (which we really don't need to know about), or a misunderstanding (which will be resolved in the upcoming weeks through communication).

Keep in mind that the reason for the ban may not be Pokemon-related at all. For the sake of Gary's privacy, we should try to avoid speculating on what the reason for the ban is. In due time, word will spread one way or another.



I will neither support Mr. Warren nor be against him until we get more facts. I think one would be too quick to judge if they immediately supported Mr. Warren without knowing the complete picture of what happened, regardless of his previous contributions to the game. Participation in the Pokemon TCG is not a right, it's a privilege. Some people, like Newman, lost that privilege. Likewise, before we know exactly what happened, we shouldn't assume that Mr. Warren also did not lose his privilege to participate in the Pokemon TCG, nor should we assume that he lost it.

I agree. No one should jump to any conclusions as to whether the ban was justified or not. Like tinox said, we should not be speculating as to why he was banned, nor should we speculate as to whether the ban was justified or not.

I am mostly critical of how the ban was issued, and the lack of a suitable medium to resolve the issue. Eliminating email and phone, and forcing a costly avenue of communication (if you don't want a conversation to take weeks or months back and forth from the east coast to the west coast), all the while without stating a REASON for the ban to the one who was banned, just comes off as lacking professionalism.

That is mainly what I am critical of. I don't know why he was banned, but the fact that he doesn't either speaks volumes. Further, the fact that he has to mail letters (3-5 days regular mail, ESTIMATED) for ONE way communication means it will take a week for mail to arrive, further time to be reviewed and written back, more time to travel to Gary, and so on and so forth. It just doesn't seem like a good move.

 

[psychup2034]

I am mostly critical of how the ban was issued, and the lack of a suitable medium to resolve the issue. Eliminating email and phone, and forcing a costly avenue of communication (if you don't want a conversation to take weeks or months back and forth from the east coast to the west coast), all the while without stating a REASON for the ban to the one who was banned, just comes off as lacking professionalism.

Oh, this part I completely agree with. Pokemon is notoriously horrible in their customer service and support. This is a well known fact even by players of other trading card games. In my one contact with TPCi, it took 59 days to merge two player IDs. I can only imagine the lack of transparency and difficultly of communication that would mire Gary's efforts to get this issue resolved with TPCi if there actually was a misunderstanding.

If what tinox6 says is true (which it might not be), then TPCi has exhibited a lot of unprofessionalism in their handling of this issue.

 

[Prime]

After having the privilege to be around Gary and work with him at Nationals, I find it hard to believe that Gary would do anything to warrant a ban. If I could take the ban for him, I sincerely would. He does more good for the game in a single month than I do the entire year.

I wish him best of luck in his future endeavors, Pokemon or not.

 

[evil psyduck]

The only way we will truly know why he is banned is if we get both sides of the story. Until then everyone needs to stop jumping to conclusions.

 

[meganium45]

Has anyone posting here actually dealt with a professional work relationship or independent contractor relationship?

In order to protect a company from harm, every company I advise when they are terminating an individual says AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE regarding the termination.

The employer simply needs to terminate the relationship and move on.

Not speculating as to what went on here, but as hard as Pokemon works to get the right people in the right positions, it is hard they they would eliminate a TO or PTO without good reason or good cause.

Let's look at the number of TOs that have been knocked out of the program in the last few years (3) by PUI...um none that I know of.

There have been a few that have left the TO and PTO ranks due to their own choice, but having a TO or PTO eliminated is NOT standard practice for this company.

To speculate on either end is to simply cause animosity and prejudice in either direction. If Gary knows, and chooses not to tell, then that is his business and it should be respected.

If you are EVEN thinking Pokemon will come and address this to you, the consumer, you are mistaken, at least if I am their counsel (which I am not).

It is more professional for Pokemon to say NOTHING in the adult world, then to change the positive impression that many of you have for Gary with facts that you may or may not have any right to.

Vince

 

[psychup2034]

It is more professional for Pokemon to say NOTHING in the adult world...

Most people here aren't concerned about knowing why Gary was banned. They're concerned about Gary knowing why he was banned:

3. To request of anyone from TCPi to inform Gary of why he was banned. Obviously, TCPi won't be able to tell us, but it would be nice if they would at least let Gary know.

Vince, you are right in saying that TPCi has no business telling the community why Gary was banned, but it is definitely unprofessional (and rather childish) for Pokemon to say NOTHING to Gary about why he was banned. If you were a contractor at my company and I don't require your services anymore (for whatever reason), I would at least have the common decency to tell you why I don't require your services anymore.

The original poster in this thread has already established that he "spoke with Gary" and that Gary is "fine with [him] posting this." In other words, if I assume that the original poster isn't lying, TPCi has not even informed Gary why he was banned. Even if it's something that TPCi feels that Gary should already know, it's unprofessional for them not to speak with Gary as to explain the ban.

In the "adult world," companies that exhibit professionalism don't fire their contractors without giving the individual they are firing an explanation.

 

[TheDarkTwins]

To provide a little bit of context, Gary's grandson, Khi plays competitive. He went to Texas Regionals this year, for example.

To an extent, I am a little worried about Khi as well, as this may impact his future ability to possibly judge or run events, and even play.

The various leagues that Gary has started, and of course the marathon which was a brainchild between him and Georgia organizers Tymon and Greg. This will definitely affect a lot of players in Alabama, which like Keith pointed out, had a nonexistent playerbase for a long time. They actually had a states last year (whcih I attended), and this is undoubtedly due to the efforts of Gary and another AL TO in building up that region's playerbase.

The players do lose in this situation, as they lose a man, and potentially his grandson (who supports his play, at least partially financially), and all of their support and dedication to this game.

You don't have to worry about his grandson. I know of instances before when a family member has been banned, but not everyone in the family is prevented from playing.

Drew

 

[Charizard3712]

Yes, I know Gary didn't organize AL states, I was just citing his contribution for building the playerbase in AL, along with you (the organizer I made reference to). You also organized the first PR in Tallahassee I think- which I went to!

AL states was a lot of fun, and I am glad that you will be running it this year. I was just trying to show that Gary had a significant contribution to building up a playerbase that was virtually nonexistent for many years.

Okay sorry if it seemed like I took offense I was just letting the players from Alabama know that all events will still be happening even though Gary is gone.

 

[immewnity]

I was going to suggest to check Pokémon.com's banned organizers page for confirmation, but that page doesn't seem to exist anymore, unless I can't find it. I know it existed on the "new" site.

 

[Pajamas]

https://www.pokemon.com/us/account/discipline/organizers/list

The list of organizers with lifetime bans is very, very short. Based on the names I recognize, TPCi doesn't hand them out without a good reason, and I have no doubt that anyone who has gotten one knows exactly why.

 

[psychup2034]

https://www.pokemon.com/us/account/discipline/organizers/list

The list of organizers with lifetime bans is very, very short. Based on the names I recognize, TPCi doesn't hand them out without a good reason, and I have no doubt that anyone who has gotten one knows exactly why.

Remember, we're talking about the "adult world" now (as Vince had mentioned). In the "adult world," companies give notice to their contractors and provide an explanation when their services are no longer welcome. Even if a contractor had an idea of why his relationship with the company was terminated, it is nonetheless unprofessional for the company not to offer a formal reason to the contractor. I'm not saying that a company has any legal obligation to provide a reason for termination to its contractor, but we're not talking about legality here; we're talking about professionalism.

Moreover, Ryan's earlier point used this unfortunate situation to leverage into a discussion about the communicative inefficiencies between TPCi and those customers/affiliates who wish to get in contact with them.

 

[meganium45]

Psychpup, no, most companies don't have to give you any more than "your services are no longer necessary" and leave it at that. Unless your contract says differently, you are an at will employee, and you can have your relationship ended, with or without cause. There are a myriad of legal reasons that you do not go into specifics when terminating the relationship. I have advised on these on numerous occaisions, and even though the employer may really want to tell you why you are done, and really what they think of you...they won't if they are getting ANY advice at all.

I can get a hold of Pokemon anytime I need to regarding my concerns in my role as TO/PTO.

The times they have had a problem with my actions, I have known exactly what the trouble was, and what I needed to avoid doing, or stop doing, or just not to do in order to keep my bosses at Pokemon happy, and allow me to continue playing their game and running their events.

Believe it or not, Pokemon, from my experience, and in speaking with my fellow organizers, has absolutely no trouble in expressing its concern, or its disapproval with actions.

I would be "shocked" if a TO or PTO was banned and had no idea why.

Maybe he does know, and is just choosing not to let anyone else know. That is his right of privacy.

Vince

 

[PokePop]

Most people here aren't concerned about knowing why Gary was banned. They're concerned about Gary knowing why he was banned

I'll note that you don't really know if Gary knows why he was banned or not.
He chooses what information to tell.
If he tells you that Pokemon hasn't told him why he was banned, it is up to you to decide whether to believe that.
If he was banned for something embarrassing (Note that I have NO idea why he was banned), he is well within his rights to claim ignorance.

While I know nothing of this particular ban, I have seen the causes of other bans. (not from Pokemon, but from being there when the issue happened)
Pokemon does not ban people lightly.
I'll also note that other bans that I have seen in the past start out with a "forever" ban time that later is revised to a shorter time.
Pokemon quite often initiates their bans before they have finalized how long it will last.

 

[psychup2034]

Psychpup, no, most companies don't have to give you any more than "your services are no longer necessary" and leave it at that.

As I mentioned in the post above, companies don't have to legally give you any more than a notice of termination, but most professional companies will let the employee know why they are let go, whether rimplicitly through performance reviews (the most common), a meeting with management, or some other way.

In the corporate world, no manager wants to be known as a difficult person. If a manager terminates a contract without giving a reason, that manager will gain a certain reputation in the circle that the manager would want to avoid. People talk, and giving someone a reason for the termination of a relationship is basic professionalism. Obviously, there are always exceptions.

I'll note that you don't really know if Gary knows why he was banned or not.

The original poster mentioned that he spoke with Gary and further implied that Gary would like to get an explanation of why he was banned. While I may be a little naive in assuming that Gary isn't feigning ignorance as a defense mechanism and to save face, I took the original poster's post as truthful.

As Ryan and I have said, we don't think that TPCi is wrong in giving out the ban. We can't make a prudent judgment without more information. In all likelihood, TPCi had a justifiable reason to issue a ban.

 

[Lawman]

I have spoken to Gary and unless he is feigning ignorance, he stated to me that he did not know why this happened and is seeking answers and relief from TPCi OP brass.

Now, onto the other side, I know the folks at OP, they take their jobs seriously also. They do not hand out bans like chicklets. I'm sure they have a reason for issuing this ban. Maybe it is something that they addressed with him previously and he still went on doing a similiar thing. Usually, if a TO or PTO did something the brass didnt care for, we hear about it and know exactly what they want and what we need to do to correct it. We are "at will" independent contractors, TPCi can tell us any time they want to that they are taking their ball and going home and you dont get to play anymore with them.

IF Gary truly doesnt know why he is banned, I hope he at least gets an answer to that.

Keith

 

[PokemonMom64]

For the record, me being the PTO of Alabama. Gary was only running a BR up north of Alabama. I will still have events up that way and I will still have an Alabama states this season. That being said, it is sad to see Gary go and I wish him the best no matter the reason for this.

Does this mean you are the new TO for North Alabama? If so, I need to get in contact with you as the league leader for the area. I really don't want Gary to leave, but from what I am reading I don't have a choice in the matter.

 

[Charizard3712]

Does this mean you are the new TO for North Alabama? If so, I need to get in contact with you as the league leader for the area. I really don't want Gary to leave, but from what I am reading I don't have a choice in the matter.

Well I've been running events in Birmingham for the past two years and I'm currently finding someone to take over up there

 

[Ice'Cold]

As I mentioned in the post above, companies don't have to legally give you any more than a notice of termination, but most professional companies will let the employee know why they are let go, whether rimplicitly through performance reviews (the most common), a meeting with management, or some other way.

In my experience you're totally wrong on that one. The threat of big lawsuits have kept most "professional" companies from saying anything to employees other than that they are terminated. It's a much much safer play for them as a company to say nothing at all (which they legally are allowed to do) than to give anything at all that can be held against them at a later time.

 

[tinox6]

Regardless of what companies do when they terminate someone, I think we can all agree that it would be ideal (even if it doesn't actually happen) for TCPi to let Gary know why he was banned, right? Especially since everyone who has posted on here that knows Gary has only positive things to say about him. Meaning, that in our eyes and in Gary's eyes, TCPi is putting claims on his character that make no sense to both those of us who know him, and to Gary himself.