Klinklang is it hot enough to survive the freeze-out?

[ESAKO]

Klinklang, The bane of Exs everywhere, is it dead?
With the format shift with new decks coming into the tiers such as: Weavile, Thundurus/Kyurem/Deoxys, Darkrai starting to play hammers again, and people just not getting caught of guard and have prepared for it. What I have to ask to you is what do you think is Klinklang finally done or is it still viable in this day and age with fast attackers and fast non-ex attackers? Please discuss this in the comments :biggrin:

 

[Alann]

It's not seeing much play in Japan anymore so I've heard, but it's still a neusance.

 

[Raen]

I think Klinklang will lose a lot of power. Plasma decks will be the deck to beat come Nationals, and I feel like it just has too many answers to Klinklang. It's fast and can KO Klinks pretty easily before you set up. It also has access to Kyurem (the Plasma one) that, while weak to Metal, can OHKO all your stuff with Deoxys + Laser. And then there is Snorlax, too. Yes, Cobalion EX can remove Special Energy, but I don't think that 1 removal a turn is enough. Maybe you could run Hammers, but then you hurt your decks consistency.

Other decks get new answers to Klinklang as well. Darkrai, who used to be one of the best matchups for Klinklang, now has Absol to deal with Klinklang.

 

[Shadow-Bario]

I think KK is gonna be alright. Things are gonna be tougher, but I think its too stable to be dissembled after one set

 

[Chompy]

I also heard that Plasma decks and Hammers make the decks like KK, Big Basics, and Landorus/Garbodor look like a joke now from the reports I've read.


Another question I have is do you think Chandelure/Rayquaza ex will be a conteder for this format? I know Chandelure/Reshiram is weak to Blastoise/Keldeo right now, but I feel that Rayquaza ex is enough to give out the consistent pressure on water decks the same way Eels does now. Not to mention that Chandelure can one shot everything in the KK deck.

I feel like now that Landorus variants could be dead, decks like Weavile/Exeggcute could somehow squeeze their way into the metagame. I'm not saying that players will stop playing Landorus variants completly. However, I could see a similar path Darkrai/Hydreigon was going through during Cities where people will still play the deck, but not win as many tournaments as it once did if you know what I mean.

 

[Otaku]

Even if all the Evolutions that people have hopes for fall through, the Basic focused decks now all have serious big Basic Pokémon attackers that are not Pokémon-EX.

 

[pokedan24]

I think Chandelure Rayquaza will be good.

Landorus should still be good. It's a first turn attacker that can become even stronger with plasma badge/Deoxys. Kyurem might surpass it simply by not giving up two prizes, but Landorus does resist Thundurus.

As for Klingklang. It needs to survive the first turn or two, but I think it should still be good. It should still block enough attackers to cause problems for opponents. Cobalion (iron breaker) can take care of Kyurem. The only one I really see threatening this is Absol. A full bench and darkclaw would allow it to OHKO either klang. For that matchup, Maybe Lucario (Hurricane Kick) could be teched in?

 

[Ignatious]

The deck is completely unplayable.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

The deck is completely unplayable.

This is correct if people know there's a KingKlang deck(s) in their format, you can tech a single fire poke (i.e. Victini) and roll straight over it.

Now, granted, we are talking about playing KlingKlang vs. TopTier players.

You will probably go 6-3 (miss cut) or something like that because you'll roll over people who do not tech their decks or are average players.

As more and more EX decks (especially Team Plasma engine driven) emerge, KlingKlang can be a shrewd play (or tech!) if you have a way of disallowing your opponents to bide their time. From a judging perspective, KlingKlang players have to be overly-dependent on the lock to be agressive with the prize count and, therefore, fall hard when the lock is not in place (because their attackers are inferior in damage and/or recovery-ability due to expensive attack costs).

RA

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Lets look at the major/anticipated major decks from the previous and current format, and see how they fare against PlasmaKlang in the BW-PLF format. I might miss one or two, but I think this list should cover it. I would like to reiterate that this is my opinion from the limited testing I have been able to do with the new format, so feel free to disagree if I've skipped over something major(mostly likely I would have forgotten about it).

RayEels - This deck finds it relatively easy to deal with the PlasmaKlang deck - it already runs Fire Energy, so can freely use Benchtini to Catcher up and KO their PlasmaKlang to break the lock for long enough for your Rayquaza EX to start swinging again. How RayEels will perform against the rest of the format is a totally different question, so let's not discuss that.

Darkrai/Lasers/Hammers/whatever - It got Absol from Plasma Freeze, which looks to be a good addition to the deck in general. It flops around against some decks that don't really need a large bench footprint, but against PlasmaKlang with its fat bench filled PlasmaKlang, Shift Gear Klang, Cobalion EX and Cobalion NVI, not to mention Hammer disruption, Absol will easy get a 120 damage Mind Jack(or 140 with Dark Claw/150 with LaserBank/170 with both). A Dark Claw full-power Mind Jack does 140, which is enough to KO a Klinklang, though it does fall ever so short of a Cobalion EX KO(though if you got an early game Night Spear on it that they didn't wipe with Max Potion(why would they, 30 HP is pretty pricey to blow a Max Potion on)). The point is, if it doesn't get you while you're still a Klink, it'll just rip you when you fully set up.

Blastoise/Black Kyurem EX - Now this legitimately has a lot of issues with fully set up Klinklang. It contributes a Tropical Beach, which Klinklang certainly won't mind for set up, and its best attacker if it can't fit in a baby Keldeo is Blastoise. This is one matchup Klinklang has an advantage against, but to take advantage of it it needs to beat Blastoise in the speed game. I'm not sold on Blastoise using Vaporeon, but maybe it could use Plasma Kyurem?

Garbodor - Unless you get Cobalion EX ripping from turn 1 to get rid it of early Double Colorless Energy, Garbodor is really going to make your life hell. It breaks your EX protection, meaning you are no longer safe from a lot of the best attackers in the format.

Big Basics - This matchup seems a lot more favourable, considering it is essentially a deck that runs on EXes...except for the fact that it uses Bouffalant. It all hinges on how fast you can eliminate the Bouffalant from the equation in my opinion.

Plasma Basics - They have Plasma Kyurem for this exact reason(ok, and to deal with Landorus, but that's besides the point!). 2 Deoxys or LaserBank make this an instakill on PlasmaKlang, leaving the way clear for Thundurus EX to continue with its business. Additionally, one of the 2 finishers the deck can use, Snorlax, is non-EX, meaning it doesn't care about PlasmaKlang once it starts swinging(and considering their bench has 2-3 Deoxys EX, a full bench Teampact is doing 200-210, KOing anything, meaning it will finish the game in 1-2 attacks.

Weavile/Eggs - This is an untested rogue to the English format, but a rogue that will certainly be put to the test by many a player because of the hype it has received. Using non-EX attackers(they'll just keep Deoxys EX on the bench in this matchup), they don't particularly care about your PlasmaKlang. It just comes down to who does their thing best.

Just for the hell of it,

Dusknoir/Accelgor/Gothitelle/Mew - You will probably get the advantage when they lose steam(infinite Mew EX retrieval resources are a pipe dream, and the 70 damage from Deck and Cover no longer exists), though without any EX attackers, they don't care about your PlasmaKlang.

And that's that! If I've missed something important, please feel free to call me out on it!

 

[Otaku]

Lets look at the major/anticipated major decks from the previous and current format, and see how they fare against PlasmaKlang in the BW-PLF format...

...Blastoise/Black Kyurem EX - Now this legitimately has a lot of issues with fully set up Klinklang. It contributes a Tropical Beach, which Klinklang certainly won't mind for set up, and its best attacker if it can't fit in a baby Keldeo is Blastoise. This is one matchup Klinklang has an advantage against, but to take advantage of it it needs to beat Blastoise in the speed game. I'm not sold on Blastoise using Vaporeon, but maybe it could use Plasma Kyurem?

Kyurem [Plasma] should be easy enough to work in I would think, other than the usual business with deck space. I was never especially good with this deck and perhaps it is because in paranoia, my earlier builds always included a non-Pokémon-EX attacker, anyway. Granted, I didn't play it much so I would really like to know; are people just trusting Blastoise for the versus Plasma Steel/Safeguard match-ups?

Anyone have any thoughts on Empoleon post-Plasma Freeze? Maybe I am being unrealistic, but I could see an odd Team Plasma variant thanks to Team Plasma Badge, but the oft debated Ghetsis seems for safer in a deck with Diving Draw to cover whiffs. Any takers, or is it just another of my foolhardy ideas? :lol: Oh, and the reason that is on topic is... I am wondering if it is a past deck that might see some revival... and thus be problems for Klingklang [Plasma].

 

[Silent_Gecko]

RayEels - This deck finds it relatively easy to deal with the PlasmaKlang deck - it already runs Fire Energy, so can freely use Benchtini to Catcher up and KO their PlasmaKlang to break the lock for long enough for your Rayquaza EX to start swinging again. How RayEels will perform against the rest of the format is a totally different question, so let's not discuss that.

Darkrai/Lasers/Hammers/whatever - It got Absol from Plasma Freeze, which looks to be a good addition to the deck in general. It flops around against some decks that don't really need a large bench footprint, but against PlasmaKlang with its fat bench filled PlasmaKlang, Shift Gear Klang, Cobalion EX and Cobalion NVI, not to mention Hammer disruption, Absol will easy get a 120 damage Mind Jack(or 140 with Dark Claw/150 with LaserBank/170 with both). A Dark Claw full-power Mind Jack does 140, which is enough to KO a Klinklang, though it does fall ever so short of a Cobalion EX KO(though if you got an early game Night Spear on it that they didn't wipe with Max Potion(why would they, 30 HP is pretty pricey to blow a Max Potion on)). The point is, if it doesn't get you while you're still a Klink, it'll just rip you when you fully set up.

Blastoise/Black Kyurem EX - Now this legitimately has a lot of issues with fully set up Klinklang. It contributes a Tropical Beach, which Klinklang certainly won't mind for set up, and its best attacker if it can't fit in a baby Keldeo is Blastoise. This is one matchup Klinklang has an advantage against, but to take advantage of it it needs to beat Blastoise in the speed game. I'm not sold on Blastoise using Vaporeon, but maybe it could use Plasma Kyurem?

Garbodor - Unless you get Cobalion EX ripping from turn 1 to get rid it of early Double Colorless Energy, Garbodor is really going to make your life hell. It breaks your EX protection, meaning you are no longer safe from a lot of the best attackers in the format.

Big Basics - This matchup seems a lot more favourable, considering it is essentially a deck that runs on EXes...except for the fact that it uses Bouffalant. It all hinges on how fast you can eliminate the Bouffalant from the equation in my opinion.

Plasma Basics - They have Plasma Kyurem for this exact reason(ok, and to deal with Landorus, but that's besides the point!). 2 Deoxys or LaserBank make this an instakill on PlasmaKlang, leaving the way clear for Thundurus EX to continue with its business. Additionally, one of the 2 finishers the deck can use, Snorlax, is non-EX, meaning it doesn't care about PlasmaKlang once it starts swinging(and considering their bench has 2-3 Deoxys EX, a full bench Teampact is doing 200-210, KOing anything, meaning it will finish the game in 1-2 attacks.

The only point you made any sense on is the Plasma Basics deck. Benchtini has no effect on experienced plasmaklang players(if you did any testing you would know this). Darkrai has enough problems as it is but trying to shoehorn a new Pokemon to deal with 1 unfavorable match is not the way to go. The only thing it helps is forcing the 7 prize game, and making the plasmaklang player limit his bench to 3. Blastoise/big basics will continue to be a favorable matchups and the only new threat is plasma basics.

 

[headorchest]

I think KK decks will still be around. I do feel it will be at a huge disadvantage against the Plasma decks. I think Plasma Decks and Keldoe Decks will be the top plays in Nationals.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I also heard that Plasma decks and Hammers make the decks like KK, Big Basics, and Landorus/Garbodor look like a joke now from the reports I've read.

Not sure what reports you've read (please specify where those reports are - ty), but that's not what I'm seeing from my own playtesting against Plasma decks. Like in the past when new sets have been released, the older decks have "evolved" too in order to remain competitive.

---------- Post added 05/09/2013 at 07:28 AM ----------

Anyone have any thoughts on Empoleon post-Plasma Freeze? Maybe I am being unrealistic, but I could see an odd Team Plasma variant thanks to Team Plasma Badge, but the oft debated Ghetsis seems for safer in a deck with Diving Draw to cover whiffs. Any takers, or is it just another of my foolhardy ideas? :lol: Oh, and the reason that is on topic is... I am wondering if it is a past deck that might see some revival... and thus be problems for Klingklang [Plasma].

You'd might be surprised to know that there are some players testing this deck now...

---------- Post added 05/09/2013 at 07:37 AM ----------

The only point you made any sense on is the Plasma Basics deck. Benchtini has no effect on experienced plasmaklang players(if you did any testing you would know this). Darkrai has enough problems as it is but trying to shoehorn a new Pokemon to deal with 1 unfavorable match is not the way to go. The only thing it helps is forcing the 7 prize game, and making the plasmaklang player limit his bench to 3. Blastoise/big basics will continue to be a favorable matchups and the only new threat is plasma basics.

I ran big basics (without Garbodor) most of this season and had NO issues with Klinklang decks, despite the fact I did run Benchtini (in only 1 major tournament) which typically took 3 prizes. My opponents "did not see it coming" in most cases.

Several other players (3 - all made top cut at Regionals) I know played Darkrai-Sableye and were able to easily defeat KK decks thanks to their decks' speed and re-use of key Items.