Thieves caught on video at Worlds, TPCi does nothing

[Moss Factor]

Guys it doesn't matter how much if any responsibility the hotel owed Mees to watch his stuff. That's a completely separate discussion. All that matters for this thread is that fact that stealing is a crime and TPCi seems to be establishing a policy of allowing theft at their events with no repercussions. This is especially poignant considering legal remedies are difficult at international tournaments, as evidenced by this case.

 

[mariosss]

Mees, we should start a campaign where everyone who's in writes a letter and send it to TCPi, as a support ticket, complaining against the fact and DEMAND more safety at those events, as much as the correct PUNISHMENT to the people who are guilty.

Sorry to ask this, but what would happen if a European/Latin/Asian/African was the thief and the stolen was an USA citizen? Maybe they would give it a lil' bit more of attention. That's what it feels like. Sorry to American players, nothing against you at all.

 

[homeofmew]

Andrew - problem is it was at the hotel, not at the event so I think the main question you bring up is good morals among pokemon players.
This would be a totally different situation if you went to a pokemon event and a non pokemon person stole a pokemon person's stuff.

As for being a girl, yes that is a whole other topic. But it was worth mentioning why some female may choose pokemon over other TCGs.
I was at origins for nats one year and some D&D guys were drooly over me, they were sad face when i told them I live in Houston LMAO XD

 

[Articjedi]

wow. Pontious Pilate washes his hands again.

TPCI should take note, because even to this day, no one like Pontious Pilate

That's a bad metaphor, Pilate washes his hands, ends up sparking biggest religion in known history. TPCI washes their hands, Gino becomes the Messiah?

 

[Zuul]

Assuming that nothing changes, does anyone want to publicly state that they aren't coming to Nationals anymore?

I'm a parent, and we still are. It's because I know plenty of dumb things happen among players already, so this one extreme incident is not going to detract from our enjoyment of the tournament and weekend.

So I'll chime in and add a little something to this. (For those of you that don't know, I'm losjackal's wife.)

Yes, we will still be going to Nats and regionals. However, we will have conversations with our son about being even more uber-careful with his things, which means that he will leave them with me or his Dad if he isn't currently using them. I may end up going to more tournaments with them, especially if I am concerned about who will be there, because I feel I can be more watchful since I won't be playing. And I will certainly be more watchful about who is standing around my son.

Is it unfortunate that I am more distrustful of the Pokémon community because of this? Of course it is. I hope that incidents like this do not become the norm rather than the exception. I am not expecting them to. However, if they do, then we will certainly re-evaluate whether Pokémon is the right game and community for our son.

 

[Pajamas]

I believe that the majority of players would prefer that we continue to allow the hotel to handle these kinds of issues.

I would prefer that players who make others feel threatened not be allowed to continue doing so. I would prefer that players who bring the game into disrepute not be allowed to continue doing so. I would prefer that TPCi steps up to protect the game and its customers when the law fails. If a player can't adhere to the most basic social contract, I would prefer that they be unwelcome to P!P.

It's hard for me to believe I'm in the minority. It's hard for me to believe that you think I'm in the minority.

 

[Moss Factor]

What I am getting at is that from our perspective, those incidents vastly outnumber the exceptions that have been made and makes our recent decision very much in line with the precedent we have set. I believe that the majority of players would prefer that we continue to allow the hotel to handle these kinds of issues.

I agree, and I can't speak for him but I'd imagine Mees would prefer the hotel handle this as well. And... They kind of did! They helped figure out whodunnit, created a report, called the cops, etc. Mees didn't go running for a judge when he saw his stuff missing. The reason that he's still (justifiably) unsatisfied is the same reason I think TPCi should be involved: complications with international boundaries that are inherent to international tournaments. If this was a local CC the problem would already be solved. But when a Dutch player is robbed by an American player on Canadian soil, I think its necessary for TPCi, being in a unique position to stand above the fray, to step in. This is hardly an assumption of liability from the hotel and simply a recognition that in rare circumstances we need big brother to act on behalf of the game to keep us safe from criminals who would abuse legal and geopolitical loopholes.

Basically we need you guys to be Mel Gibson in the face of the bad guy yelling "diplomatic immunity!"

 

[jmilone5826]

I would prefer that players who make others feel threatened not be allowed to continue doing so. I would prefer that players who bring the game into disrepute not be allowed to continue doing so. I would prefer that TPCi steps up to protect the game and its customers when the law fails. If a player can't adhere to the most basic social contract, I would prefer that they be unwelcome to P!P.

It's hard for me to believe I'm in the minority. It's hard for me to believe that you think I'm in the minority.

I couldn't have said it better

 

[jeffrey123]

*Shocker* Another AWFUL decision by the clowns over at Tpci. When is Pokemon EVER going to hire anyone with an ounce of intelligence? From the looks of it...


The world may never know.

 

[ARMondak]

I find the lack of accountability from the TPCi brass disturbing. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. To do nothing is condoning this behavior, and will invite thieves to act without consequences.

This issue isn't just going to go away by being swept under the rug or by someone locking this thread after a couple days. It is not a reduction in prize support or an unpopular change in tournament structure. This is criminal activity happening at these events, and will only become a larger issue if left undealt with.

I'd like to ask everyone a question: if someone stole your cards from a tournament, would you continue to play? All the time, effort, and money it took to get those cards, to be gone in an instant? I believe the answer for most people would be no. From a business perspective, this is not a risk any reasonable decision-maker would choose. They would mitigate the problem immediately. I encourage Dave Schwimmer and Dan Brandt to do the same.

 

[Prodigiosus]

Also just remembered another VGC ban that took place in 2012:

At the UK Nationals in 2012 (the same one that Ruben ended up winning) Daniel Nolan (Worlds Top 8 2011, competed in Worlds 2013) was banned for the rest of the season (remaining European Nationals + LCQ in Hawaii) because he took one of the very small Pokemon signs (less than 8"x11.5") that said "Bathroom" on it. (He says a staff member told him it was OK). He later went on to post on a forum about taking the sign, and received a swift ban from TPCi. This meant he could not compete in another European National the following week, which he already booked his ticket for. This one wasn't like Ruben's case where it blew up all over social media, the only players who really knew of the incident were those who read that forum.

A six month ban for taking a small sign after the tournament was over.

Think about that one.

Perhaps I'm a bit bitter after seeing my VGC friends receive severe punishments, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they shouldn't have received any repercussion for what they did... still trying to figure this one out though.

 

[Benzo]

So much to say on this subject, but one thing sort of sticks out to me is:

At what point does a person take and accept a level of self responsibility for their own belongings in a situation such as this?

It is ok to be upset, it is ok to vent, it is ok to make others aware of future awareness to be even more cautious with their belongings at events.

I do not find it ok to bash and demand others on any level based on frustration, where frustration is being feed through a clouded tube that is focusing on one aspect of who all could or should have been preventing a crime of opportunity.

Theft prevention starts with the person with an item does exactly that: takes preventative measures to protect their item(s).

Someone please tell me how it is that banks get robbed, even to this day with all the preventative measures implemented by the banks. The key word "preventative" has to start with the person who wants something protected knowing that theft DOES HAPPEN and accept that as a part of this world.

Theft sucks. In a court- how much strength does "feelings" hold in a theft case? A judge IMO who has served 20+ years on the bench would strait up ask the victim why they would leave something so precious to them just sitting in a hotel Lobby.

How would YOU answer that question? I am sure the judge would point out that the victim has some level of responsibility in this and should accept it.

It is not like I do not care about the situation, nor favor any side or nor am I taking a side or stance.

I am simply saying that I am not too interested in reading much more of the blaming, the bashing, and the fuel of emotion being tossed onto this fire to keep what is IMO boarder line defamation of character on all sides of any person or group in this matter.

Just my thoughts is all.

 

[franjime]

I can't speak to every aspect of the criticism being directed our way in this thread, but I did want to touch on one issue that I think is a source of confusion.

There is a lot of talk in this thread about precedent. What most of you could not possibly know is the number of reports we get from hotels about various kinds of bad behavior that can happen at a hotel or on their property. Everything from wild 18th birthday parties to players a bit too hyped and loud on energy drinks at 2am.

In the vast majority of these situations we have allowed the hotel to handle these issues, because legally, this is their responsibility. It’s part of what they are paid for. In fact, we know for a fact that the stuff they end up telling us about is only a portion of what the hotels actually end up dealing with, because the Pokémon is a tight community and we probably hear more than you guys think we do.

What I am getting at is that from our perspective, those incidents vastly outnumber the exceptions that have been made and makes our recent decision very much in line with the precedent we have set. I believe that the majority of players would prefer that we continue to allow the hotel to handle these kinds of issues.

Thank you for participating in this thread. I appreciate the perspective.

My concern about entire incident is precedent. I can understand not wanting to exclude a player from OP for having a loud birthday party or for having too many energy drinks at 2am. But the precedent you are setting here is that if a player steals from another player at the hotel hosting the event, that you will not take action besides a sternly worded letter. That's a horrible precedent to establish, and indicates a lack of concern for the safety of your players and their belongings. I urge you to reconsider.

 

[Articjedi]

I think better theft prevention is moot because I'm pretty sure Mees learned that lesson when his stuff got stolen. So what's your point in saying this? He shouldn't be appealing to the community? Should he just accept that it's a loss and not talk about what happened? I think he's perfectly within his rights to fight over it, it's his laptop.

 

[franjime]

So much to say on this subject, but one thing sort of sticks out to me is:

At what point does a person take and accept a level of self responsibility for their own belongings in a situation such as this?

It is ok to be upset, it is ok to vent, it is ok to make others aware of future awareness to be even more cautious with their belongings at events.

I do not find it ok to bash and demand others on any level based on frustration, where frustration is being feed through a clouded tube that is focusing on one aspect of who all could or should have been preventing a crime of opportunity.

Theft prevention starts with the person with an item does exactly that: takes preventative measures to protect their item(s).

Someone please tell me how it is that banks get robbed, even to this day with all the preventative measures implemented by the banks. The key word "preventative" has to start with the person who wants something protected knowing that theft DOES HAPPEN and accept that as a part of this world.

Theft sucks. In a court- how much strength does "feelings" hold in a theft case? A judge IMO who has served 20+ years on the bench would strait up ask the victim why they would leave something so precious to them just sitting in a hotel Lobby.

How would YOU answer that question? I am sure the judge would point out that the victim has some level of responsibility in this and should accept it.

It is not like I do not care about the situation, nor favor any side or nor am I taking a side or stance.

I am simply saying that I am not too interested in reading much more of the blaming, the bashing, and the fuel of emotion being tossed onto this fire to keep what is IMO boarder line defamation of character on all sides of any person or group in this matter.

Just my thoughts is all.

Benzo, this isn't a court of law.

I have seen kids accidentally leave belongings worth hundreds of dollars laying around at Pokemon events. Every time I have seen this, the belongings were turned into the tournament officials or lost and found. It's honestly part of the reason that I've enjoyed the community around Pokemon competitive play. In general, it's a great group of people. Persons that will not foster that kind of community neither deserve my respect, my business, nor my sympathy.

I think that leaving your bags in the care of the hotel staff would qualify as 'care taken with possessions'. I certainly do not expect another player to start picking through my belongings when they are in the hotel's care. The fact that TPCi has not taken action against a person that would do that absolutely flabbergasts me.

 

[Chiapet]

The majority of the Pokemon community is fantastic but the last year have seen/heard of a number of people having their cards stolen!
People should be banned for stealing at these events , haven't players been banned for smaller situations than stealing so why not in this situation? I know personally I'd rather not have my kids property or mine at risk of being stolen at these events. I'm upset with TPCi's decision regarding this

 

[Glaceon]

So much to say on this subject, but one thing sort of sticks out to me is:

At what point does a person take and accept a level of self responsibility for their own belongings in a situation such as this?

It is ok to be upset, it is ok to vent, it is ok to make others aware of future awareness to be even more cautious with their belongings at events.

I do not find it ok to bash and demand others on any level based on frustration, where frustration is being feed through a clouded tube that is focusing on one aspect of who all could or should have been preventing a crime of opportunity.

Theft prevention starts with the person with an item does exactly that: takes preventative measures to protect their item(s).

Someone please tell me how it is that banks get robbed, even to this day with all the preventative measures implemented by the banks. The key word "preventative" has to start with the person who wants something protected knowing that theft DOES HAPPEN and accept that as a part of this world.

Theft sucks. In a court- how much strength does "feelings" hold in a theft case? A judge IMO who has served 20+ years on the bench would strait up ask the victim why they would leave something so precious to them just sitting in a hotel Lobby.

How would YOU answer that question? I am sure the judge would point out that the victim has some level of responsibility in this and should accept it.

It is not like I do not care about the situation, nor favor any side or nor am I taking a side or stance.

I am simply saying that I am not too interested in reading much more of the blaming, the bashing, and the fuel of emotion being tossed onto this fire to keep what is IMO boarder line defamation of character on all sides of any person or group in this matter.

Just my thoughts is all.

I do not understand what you are saying about preventative action. Carrying on with the bank example - there would be far more bank robberies if it weren't for preventative action.

 

[Benzo]

@ franjime:
I didn't say this was a court of law. That was an example was all. I also do not wish to have future incidents like this happen to any one. And I did say I found it ok to vent and the sort.
What I do not like is the "mob mentality" type postings that are acting like a judge and jury that is going beyond reasonable discussion on this matter. Just how I see it.
There are a lot of entities that play a part or surround this topic, it is counter productive to bash or single out those entities out of frustration for a discussion to continue before people do stop caring or contributing because the discussion has gone into that direction or is further fueled by not knowing all the facts and simple blaming without reason.

@Glaceon:

The number of criminals in this world are outnumbered by those who choose NOT to do criminal deeds or participate in illegal activities. Theft prevention is a result of trial and error methods of future safeguarding of valuable items. Everyone is capable of committing a crime, it is only so many who act on those criminal actions.

 

[franjime]

@ franjime:
I didn't say this was a court of law. That was an example was all. I also do not wish to have future incidents like this happen to any one. And I did say I found it ok to vent and the sort.
What I do not like is the "mob mentality" type postings that are acting like a judge and jury that is going beyond reasonable discussion on this matter. Just how I see it.
There are a lot of entities that play a part or surround this topic, it is counter productive to bash or single out those entities out of frustration for a discussion to continue before people do stop caring or contributing because the discussion has gone into that direction or is further fueled by not knowing all the facts and simple blaming without reason.

Fair enough. I assure you there are at least 99 things I'd rather be doing than posting on a Pokemon forum about someone I've never met (and hope to never meet). It just seems to me that TPCi has made an error here that needs to be corrected.

 

[CHARIZARD MASTERTRAINER]

I had posted on FB to Mees and feel very sad for the experience he went through, especially during a Pokemon premier tournament, where the last thing on earth we would be worried about is getting our property stolen or having to deal with any type of drama whatsoever. I've been in this game for God knows how long, but never once have I ever felt like I needed to be worried about my personal items, cards or any of the sort getting stolen in the Pokemon community. Everyone knows everyone and 9 times out of 10, I have always seen incidences where a player would misplace or lose there item and someone from the community would end up finding it and handle it in to the proper officials.

Not once did I hear anyone ever steal items from someone else, that is something that happens very rarely, especially around my neck of the woods. It really disturbs me that a few players would go so low and pull something like this during an event where we would expect our peers to be mindful and respect one another. Whether or not this happened during the tournament or not, it still happened at the host hotel. I could see the message that the TPCi is trying to convey and although it may seem right on their part, I personally don't agree with all that is said. I believe that these players should face some sort of punishment for their actions. I could understand it if the situation occurred outside the grounds or at a different time and place, but this was still at a location where an event was taking and has taken place. People are expected to respectful of one another, even if you don't like them, stealing someone's personal items is simply out of the question, joke or not. I would never find stealing funny and I don't know what these players were thinking when deciding to pull a ridiculous "prank" like this. I really doubt that this was a prank and I know that most of us are smart enough to realize that this wasn't. It saddens me that because they left the country and they may have "escaped" any type of punishment, that they might consider themselves untouchable and basically got out scot-free from this incident.

I really hope that the TPCi reconsiders their decision and proceeds with some form of disciplinary action toward these players. This is not the type of thing we want any of our players to hear and be wary of, especially new players coming into the game. I expect our community to continue to be that type of trusting environment that I felt it has always been, but after this I'm starting to feel like maybe I might have be more mindful of my things, especially around players like them. And its sad, that new players who may not know anyone or want to make friends face trust issues now if they start to hear of things like this happening at big premier events. Again, I am very sorry to hear of what Mees had to go through, it is a hassle and very inconvenience, I really hope it works out for him and that he gets his things back, one way or another. Let's hope that we never have to hear about these things happening ever again, especially at event as great as Worlds.

CMT ​