Thieves caught on video at Worlds, TPCi does nothing

[Xicious]

If Gino is cheating he needs to be caught which is on all of us as a community to assist with. The theft in question is a matter for the police and TPCi has no legal or moral right to be involved. A lot of these heroes of the game that we idolize and multiple world and national champions aren't saints, some cheat, some rules lawyer, and some let their opponent make mistakes and then reap the benefits. We'll never require back ground checks to be handed in with your deck lists which is the direction it seems people want to go even if they don't know it. This is borderline slander against targeted players and Tpci.

The moral of the story is, parents need to be parents and be cautious about who their children associate themselves with and who they idolize. The same goes for masters, be cautious about the crowd you pick and the choices you make.

 

[homeofmew]

Homeofmew, I'm not making a point about anyone "staging" anything (although I am surprised at some of the people coming out of the woodwork just to post in this topic...myself included lol). What I am saying though is that someone decided to turn this thread into attacking the attackers, confessionals about cheating, and other stuff. We don't want to talk about every ban ever, or every non-ban -- just TPCi's response to a particularly notorious non-ban.

All I am saying is that a lot of the peripheral attack is on Gino, aka his other shady movements.
This makes me come to the conclusion this thread is more the roasting of Gino then the fact JON and GINO were not banned.

Also it seems they on they thinnest of ice they can be since it seems they both got a warning letter as Mees posted that Dave sent in an e-mail.


Xicious- Well it was Theft off the Tournament floor that was reason given. If this was on the floor they should have been banned.

 

[JandPDS]

All I am saying is that a lot of the peripheral attack is on Gino, aka his other shady movements.
This makes me come to the conclusion this thread is more the roasting of Gino then the fact JON and GINO were not banned.

Also it seems they on they thinnest of ice they can be since it seems they both got a warning letter as Mees posted that Dave sent in an e-mail.


Xicious- Well it was Theft off the Tournament floor that was reason given. If this was on the floor they should have been banned.

OK so Billy does not have any tropical Beaches, if at lunch break at the McDonalds across the street from the venue that the LC is being held, he notices the deck box of a of Tim, a player he played against and had Tropical Beaches, was left unattended at the table by the while he is in he restroom. Billy opens up the deck box and steals one of his two the topical beach cards.

Tim does not realize he is missing a Tropical Beach he gets home and last remembers seeing both beaches in the match before Lunch break. Next week League Billy is proudly playing his new deck with a Tropical Beach. Billy goes to McDonalds and is shown the security footage of when he was there and sees Billy taking a card from his deck. Well I suppose the Card is now Billys to keep right? And he can use it in the next LC no questions asked. That is the lesson this incident has taught us.

 

[Shino Bug Master]

I think it's time to start winding this thread down.
Pokemon has made their ruling.
People have expressed their thoughts on that and it's getting into a circular rut now where the same thoughts are being expressed again and again.

I suggest that people take a step back and see how things play out over time. The new season is starting up in a few weeks with Regionals.
Both players will be allowed to attend those events.
I think it would be worthwhile for every to move forward and see what develops.

One of those upcoming Regionals is to be held in Vancouver, Canada. I'm more than willing to keep everything i bring physically chained to me, deck myself out in body armor, and get as many tattoos as it takes to discourage people taking my things. But at this point, i feel like i'd be more likely to get banned in Canada for wearing a shirt saying "Don't Gino Me Bro," than picking up some five finger discounts, or cheating in the event (two of these things i'll never do. i'll give you 0 guesses which 2).

Theft prevention is one thing. Having any player who is known to encourage, aid, and/or participate in theft go unpunished is why I feel this thread still needs just as much attention as ever. Even if its just more people chiming in the same things, Pokemon should see just how many of its players feel threatened, disappointed, disgusted or disheartened by the decisions made and not made regarding this topic.

 

[jbaka1188]

I find it quite ridiculous that a player can get away with the mass acquisitions that Gino has. The theft is a huge deal, no reason anyone should be able to get away with something to this degree with no repercussions. People have been banned for way less. Also in other games I know a hall of famer for magic has gotten banned for cheating. It is not right for companies to let these players continue to be a negative influence and they should be punished. Now we all these cheating acquisitions coming to light tpci needs to step up and set the bar for these allegations. People need to have consequences or it might not stop. Letting Gino continue to play is a bad call. Some action has to be done.

 

[Mystery Thing]

OK so Billy does not have any tropical Beaches, if at lunch break at the McDonalds across the street from the venue that the LC is being held, he notices the deck box of a of Tim, a player he played against and had Tropical Beaches, was left unattended at the table by the while he is in he restroom. Billy opens up the deck box and steals one of his two the topical beach cards.

Tim does not realize he is missing a Tropical Beach he gets home and last remembers seeing both beaches in the match before Lunch break. Next week League Billy is proudly playing his new deck with a Tropical Beach. Billy goes to McDonalds and is shown the security footage of when he was there and sees Billy taking a card from his deck. Well I suppose the Card is now Billys to keep right? And he can use it in the next LC no questions asked. That is the lesson this incident has taught us.

You forgot to make Billy live in another country. In terms of any legal prosecution for any theft, the multiple countries involved is where the entire thing becomes infinitely more sticky.

 

[JandPDS]

You forgot to make Billy live in another country. In terms of any legal prosecution for any theft, the multiple countries involved is where the entire thing becomes infinitely more sticky.

I don't care if the theft took place on Mars. Stealing is stealing and now Pokémon events will be open season on all of your stuff without any consequences. First cheating is allowed and now Stealing, will anyone be following rules and basic decency this year?

 

[vaporeon]

I don't care if the theft took place on Mars. Stealing is stealing and now Pokémon events will be open season on all of your stuff without any consequences. First cheating is allowed and now Stealing, will anyone be following rules and basic decency this year?

You seem to not know how international laws work. A small time theft (which it is considered) does not catch the attention of the host country that person belongs to once he is there. TPCi is not responsible for any thefts that happen. It requires more resources they they may care to spend. Any or most organizations say they are not responsible or X or Y. Malls are not responsible for damage to you or your property and super markets are not responsible for damage to your car caused by stray carts. As a matter of fact, TPCi will most likely act if Gino or anyone else defaced the property to the point the host locations involved with the event at the time complained to TPCi or they ruined the event as a whole.

Also, cheating and stealing is not allowed so please stop spreading that. I understand you are upset about it but there is no need to spread false information. Also, unless you were wronged over this, there is no need to be so upset about this.

 

[Ditto]

You seem to not know how international laws work. A small time theft (which it is considered) does not catch the attention of the host country that person belongs to once he is there. TPCi is not responsible for any thefts that happen. It requires more resources they they may care to spend. Any or most organizations say they are not responsible or X or Y. Malls are not responsible for damage to you or your property and super markets are not responsible for damage to your car caused by stray carts. As a matter of fact, TPCi will most likely act if Gino or anyone else defaced the property to the point the host locations involved with the event at the time complained to TPCi or they ruined the event as a whole.

Also, cheating and stealing is not allowed so please stop spreading that. I understand you are upset about it but there is no need to spread false information. Also, unless you were wronged over this, there is no need to be so upset about this.

This isn't about laws.

This is about TCPi saying that they are OK with people who cheat and steal playing their game.

 

[vaporeon]

This isn't about laws.

This is about TCPi saying that they are OK with people who cheat and steal playing their game.

Where did they say that? People who cheat and steal dont normally deserve to be banned forever. To my knowledge, people who cheat and are caught are punished. People are upset here because they expect TPCi to handle a theft by banning those involved permanently.

 

[Swordfish1989]

You seem to not know how international laws work. A small time theft (which it is considered) does not catch the attention of the host country that person belongs to once he is there. TPCi is not responsible for any thefts that happen. It requires more resources they they may care to spend. Any or most organizations say they are not responsible or X or Y. Malls are not responsible for damage to you or your property and super markets are not responsible for damage to your car caused by stray carts. As a matter of fact, TPCi will most likely act if Gino or anyone else defaced the property to the point the host locations involved with the event at the time complained to TPCi or they ruined the event as a whole.

Also, cheating and stealing is not allowed so please stop spreading that. I understand you are upset about it but there is no need to spread false information. Also, unless you were wronged over this, there is no need to be so upset about this.

It'd be nice if the people posting would read the entire thread before, you know posting...

TCPI has banned people for doing less, and doing it AFTER the event, in a different location. As in, the hotel poop incident, which happened AFTER the event AT THE HOTEL. If they banned those guys for doing something silly, and removed one kid's title, you're telling me that when a player is caught stealing AFTER the event AT THE HOTEL, it's suddenly just a slap in the wrist? That makes NO SENSE.

And yes, people have to be upset. There are terrible things happening all over the world and changes are made to entire country's constitutions because people got angry. Look at that poor girl in India who was assaulted (and killed)... people rallied on the streets of India and people all over the world got mad enough that the country is looking into more strict penalties to these offenders. And none of those people were 'wronged' in the scenario; only the girl and her family. But people got mad and change happened. If we let everything go 'as long as it doesn't happen to me' then this world would be a terrible place...

 

[Ditto]

Where did they say that?

Actions speak louder than words.

People who cheat and steal dont normally deserve to be banned forever.

Oh, is that because it's OK to cheat and steal? Cause otherwise, banning someone for doing something wrong seems to be the appropriate action. Or is stealing part of the Spirit of the Game?


Snark aside, please think about what you're saying and be reasonable.

 

[vaporeon]

@ Swordfish1989

I have read this thread. I have been watching it since it was posted and I know people concerns. You are right, people were banned for a lot less. Perhaps now they are not as strict as they were before. We dont know how TPCi operates... we know they just do and will act on something if they feel they must. Throwing poop is a silly thing to do and I laughed when I heard about it. HOWEVER, throwing poop on someone elses property is considered defacing it. Not only that, sanitary act must be taken to prevent others from getting sick. It made sense for that company to complain to TPCi. Because word got back to them, they acted or they may have been sued. We dont know what TPCi is doing. They may be looking for more evidence before acting, they may not. It sucks it happened, but it did. TPCi cant act on everything.

Perhaps you all may want to ask the TOs running the events to ban them from playing.

@ Ditto

You can't assume just because they dont do what you want them to means they allow cheating or stealing. People who cheat in the TCG are punished. You cant get mad if the ban is not as long as you would like it to be. The spirit of the Game also calls for people to respect players and treat them fairly, which a lot of people here are not doing. You cant help how others act. Cheating and stealing needs to be punished if its been caught. However, its up to TPCi if they want to act or not. They are not the police and the issue should have been by local police. If they cant or choose not to do something about it., you really cant do anything legally.

 

[Ditto]

@ Ditto

You can't assume just because they dont do what you want them to means they allow cheating or stealing. People who cheat in the TCG are punished. You cant get mad if the ban is not as long as you would like it to be. The spirit of the Game also calls for people to respect players and treat them fairly, which a lot of people here are not doing. You cant help how others act. Cheating and stealing needs to be punished if its been caught. However, its up to TPCi if they want to act or not. They are not the police and the issue should have been by local police. If they cant or choose not to do something about it., you really cant do anything legally.

As far as I've seen (and I could just be a bit out of date), TCPi has done nothing about this. So your comment of "You cant get mad if the ban is not as long as you would like it to be." doesn't make any sense, cause there's been no ban.

Also, you're saying that it's local police's job to decide who can and can't play in a Pokemon tournament?

That's the only thing we're talking about here, whether TCPi is letting players who cheat and steal still play in their events? As far as I know, the answer to this question is yes.

 

[vaporeon]

As far as I've seen (and I could just be a bit out of date), TCPi has done nothing about this. So your comment of "You cant get mad if the ban is not as long as you would like it to be." doesn't make any sense, cause there's been no ban.

Also, you're saying that it's local police's job to decide who can and can't play in a Pokemon tournament?

That's the only thing we're talking about here, whether TCPi is letting players who cheat and steal still play in their events? As far as I know, the answer to this question is yes.

Why should they not be allowed to play? If they are punished and "served their time" they they can play. If they are not punished and are still allowed to play, I would think its up to the TOs at that point to say whether or not if Gino and others who cheat/steal can play or not. Rather then complain to TPCi, complain to the TOs that run the events as they are the only ones that can really do anything about it.

You can also do one of two things. You can either play in the events they will be playing OR you can not play at all. Like you said, actions speak louder then words. TPCi cares about numbers. If numbers drop because of this issue, that may be of concern. Just food for though.

 

[Mystery Thing]

I don't care if the theft took place on Mars. Stealing is stealing and now Pokémon events will be open season on all of your stuff without any consequences. First cheating is allowed and now Stealing, will anyone be following rules and basic decency this year?

I said "In terms of any legal prosecution for any theft." ie, nothing to do with whether or not they should be banned or not, only in regards to your comparison of trying to argue that because he was able to walk out the door with it, the "lesson is that it's now his."

You're the one who posted a flawed metaphor. You can't leave out the single biggest reason for a problem with prosecution from a legal standpoint and then claim they're at all similar.

- - - Updated - - -

Actions speak louder than words.

Lack of (perceived nor "actual") action is not a synonym for approval, which is something that a frighteningly large number of people in this thread seem to be assuming. Just because I wasn't out there actively trying to punish Syria for using chemical weapons doesn't mean I approve that they gassed a ton of innocent people.

 

[Ditto]

Why should they not be allowed to play? If they are punished and "served their time" they they can play. If they are not punished and are still allowed to play, I would think its up to the TOs at that point to say whether or not if Gino and others who cheat/steal can play or not. Rather then complain to TPCi, complain to the TOs that run the events as they are the only ones that can really do anything about it.

You can also do one of two things. You can either play in the events they will be playing OR you can not play at all. Like you said, actions speak louder then words. TPCi cares about numbers. If numbers drop because of this issue, that may be of concern. Just food for though.

That's exactly my point. TPCi has said that players that cheat and steal can still play in their events. I'm saying that I'm disappointed in that stance and think it's a bad one. That's it. Simple, IMO.

 

[vaporeon]

That's exactly my point. TPCi has said that players that cheat and steal can still play in their events. I'm saying that I'm disappointed in that stance and think it's a bad one. That's it. Simple, IMO.

You are entitled to that.

 

[EricDent]

So maybe I am a bit in the dark on the whole international legal system.
However you would think that stuff worth over $3000 would be considered a bit more than "petty thievery"?

Of course if I had something worth that sort of $ I would keep it with me at all times.
Or at least locked in a secure bag (still not sure why anybody would leave a laptop in an bag that was easily opened).

You see I think the main point is that by not doing anything, TPCi is setting up a really bad environment for future events.

With the added pressures of having to pay for tournaments (for masters), and earning enough CP points to get to Worlds, its gonna be ripe with people trying more & more ways of cheating or stealing.
Especially if TPCi does nothing about it.

Anyhow, as before I have no plans to even bother with the tournament scene this year.
Plus I am not going to bother building anything even remotely competative.

 

[butlerforhire]

Anyone who has wasted time in this thread victim-blaming, talking about the need to watch one's items or simply not carry valuable belongings to tournaments, talking about international law (or any other law-related tangents), etc. is guilty of completely missing the point of the actual issue here, which is TPCI's refusal to properly deal with a documented thief/cheater. No one asked for your advice on what to pack, or not to pack, on tournament day. It's irrelevant. Any discussion of the law is also irrelevant here, and by that I mean that it doesn't matter what law enforcement did or didn't do in this situation. It isn't as if TPCI has to follow the lead and model of some bigger punishing body or otherwise sit there thumb-twiddling. TPCI has its own disciplinary system, and it can and should act autonomously and unilaterally in a situation like this. Gino didn't steal from some stranger in a Wal-mart parking lot, either -- he took a Macbook from a fellow Pokemon player in the hotel that TPCI put Mees up in during Worlds weekend.
As Mees pointed out in his OP, TPCI is hiding behind technicalities to avoid dealing with this incident. If this had happened during the top cut, on the Worlds floor, then would we even be having this discussion? No. Does the action itself change at all? No. Hypothetically, Gino could bring the stolen Macbook with him to Regionals and tell everyone he scored a computer from the Netherlands while posting round-by-round updates that include admissions of palming, and apparently that isn't going to change a thing because he has already been officially pardoned for these and all other sins.

This is such an absurd situation. I think we need a recap.

- TPCI sees the evidence that Mees posted in the OP
- TPCI stashes this away in the files of Jon and Gino, so the evidence must have compelled TPCI
- TPCI says they will be sending Jon and Gino each a warning letter; further evidence that the evidence compelled them
- TPCI does not ban anyone. I guess TPCI could only be compelled so far.

So what exactly did the warning letter say? "Hey Gino, sorry to bother you, but we recently got word that you stole an international player's Macbook at the Worlds hotel and then fled to America where the law can't be bothered to reach you. Oh, and we can't really be bothered either. No more Macbook stealing though, you hear? Or we might have to send you another one of these oh-so-unpleasant warning letters. Or maybe we'll bar you from being a Pokemon Professor. But WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT!"

TPCI's lack of action in this situation is not "approval" in an active sense, no, but you're just playing meaningless semantic games if you try to argue that their do-nothing stance is anything other than an ignoble cop-out. To do nothing is basically to give a shrug rather than a thumbs up. What is the difference between those two gestures here? It's a case of tacit approval versus explicit approval.

Oh, and what about all of the cheating allegations that have been thrown at Gino in this thread, especially those from Rahul? What does a player have to do to get banned around here anyway?

Another thing: it isn't cool to defend Gino as an abstract victim of mob-mentality hatred (nothing about this is abstract, he is not a victim, etc.), or play more semantic games over the meaning of words like "thug" or "gangster". There is evidence left and right of Gino doing things that merit his removal from organized play. The random people defending him remind me of the high school kids who wear Che Guevara shirts but have no idea who he was or what he stood for. Gino's not a cool meme nor does his face belong on your T-shirt.