Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Disclosing Deck Lists?

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Teach the Cheerleader
Save the Game.

So you don't like Heroes then?

Disclosing decklists can be a very touchy issue, Refer to Arhaic last year. Personally, I think you should not post an exact list and or how they play it without their permission. But you are well within your rights to give a very basic rundown of what the deck is. For example, if it is Feraligator Ex and Eeveelutions, Just say Feraligator and some eveelutions. Don't say Ferligator Ex, Espeon Ex, Umbreon Ex, Vaporeon Ex, etc. etc. and they play it by getting a fast espeon...then...gator...then...etc. etc. etc.
 
So you don't like Heroes then?

Disclosing decklists can be a very touchy issue, Refer to Arhaic last year. Personally, I think you should not post an exact list and or how they play it without their permission. But you are well within your rights to give a very basic rundown of what the deck is. For example, if it is Feraligator Ex and Eeveelutions, Just say Feraligator and some eveelutions. Don't say Ferligator Ex, Espeon Ex, Umbreon Ex, Vaporeon Ex, etc. etc. and they play it by getting a fast espeon...then...gator...then...etc. etc. etc.

Krucifier: If someone plays a SD, it is their repsonsibility to inform the rest of the community of the threat.
 
Stop it! Why are so many people going off-topic and arguing the same tired points? Ugh, the poster asked a question and the question was answered:

Q:Why do people keep SDs secret? Even after they have been played and seen?

A: 1. Posting an SD would be an oxymoron 2. There is nothing good gained for the advanced player from posting an SD (or idea for a new deck) 3. Even after the SD has seen play, posting your deck (or a basic version) still gives you no benifit 4. You aren't supposed to give out your decks, or even obligated to! (You are obligated by SPOTG to help new people, but that doesn't mean you must give them your deck) 5.The suprise factor is an advantage in this game and advanced players take advantage of everything they can to win.

The poster even admitted he had a bad experience helping someone with a deck and later being beaten. It doesn't matter if the person doesn't have the skill-you've still increased their chances and gained nothing yourself. It doesn't even matter how unlikely playing someone who saw your deck might be, it still doesn't help you, so why do it? That is the logic people that don't post their decks go by, so now everyone should understand and see that the question was answered.

I don't care if you think it violates SPOTG, is bad for the game or whatever your stance is, the question was answered. Go make another topic if you want to bicker about things unrelated to this topic.
 
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Thank you Carlos!!

If you have taken the time to develop a new winning deck that breaks the format, you are under NO obligation to share that list or even a partial list with the community. Giving away your personal advantage over the rest of the field is simply an stupid idea. To be honest, from what I have seen about the secret deck discussions on the Gym have been incredibly healthy for the game as everyone is posting their desire to have the list or simply to guess at what the list might be.

Pokemon is an extremely competitive environment with money and trips on the line. True competitors keep their ideas and decks to themselves or within their playtest group...they have no obligation to "aid the community" by giving away their edge.

Pokemon also has this thing called LEAGUE and OPEN PLAY...competitive players can help build the game and expand the player base by helping new kids learn to play or putting a deck together from the random cards a kid might have to help them win a few league matches. I know many highly competitive players who do this.
 
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ok

1. if you have an SD, dont post it or its not secret

2. if someone wants their decklist posted before a tourney, then they will want help with it, obvious is it not?

3. if someone wants to post their decklist after winning a tourney, thats fine, since everyone will know what deck that person is running and it helps the community by strengthening against the metagame. if it is an abstract deck, then the player should receive recognition for making the deck (assuming that they did and they did not netdeck) and hopefully test that deck in other tourneys

revealing SDs is only a matter of choice, but only the people that played/seen the "SD" will know wat it is
 
Posting SDs just yeild an unseen advantage: It shows people a winning deck list. Most people would want to play it after seeing it, and many might consider running it in a tourney. Therefore, you can build a deck to counter that deck and give yourself an edge against netdeckers.
 
Wait, so I have to break the format once with a deck. Then I have to spend twice the amount of time looking for some stupid counter to the deck on the off chance some idiot runs my list?

Back to fixing the problem, someone hasn't given me a decent explanation why POP just can't add "report winning deck lists for publishing to POP." to the floor rules.
 
Back to fixing the problem, someone hasn't given me a decent explanation why POP just can't add "report winning deck lists for publishing to POP." to the floor rules.
1st. That is not related to the topic.

2nd. What problem?

3rd. You haven't given a good reason as to why they should post lists. Many people will still be against your proposal. The only "problem" I see is that people who don't win want to take away an advantage from better players by making decks public. How does releasing winning decks improve the game?
 
Flareon: Please stop "modding" the topic.
Why does this have to be such a narrow discussion that going 2 degrees off the exact question of the OP is a problem? Discussions have a flow and as long as it's not going off the subject (which is "SDs, releasing of lists or not"), then it's fine.
 
I feel if there was less luck in the game, people wouldn't try to take advantage of every little thing. But because there is a lot of luck -- matchups, prizes, starting hand, to name a few -- players take advantage of everything they can. In the end, the players want to win, and stuff has to be done to improve their chances of it.

That's why people don't give out their ideas to the public, and that is why people wouldn't want their lists to be published through PUI/POP/anyone.

I do feel some players take it too far though.
 
Exactly, if players are forced to give out their lists, you create a healthier format because then other players have a much better idea of how a certain deck plays. If so, they learn about how the deck functions much more easily than word of mouth. Players who take the time to research decklists. Luck is now less of a factor because you know exactly how to play around a certain deck. Secret decks don't necessarily win because they're secret, they win because no one figures out how to play against those decks until it's too late. Eggs took nats by beating every LBS in the room, but after a few weeks worth of testing against it, the deck wasn't that effective in the first place.

Is there a problem? Yes, there's a problem. I'm starting to see the game dominated by a few players that hold a game breaking amount of information. The signs started appearing after Jimmy Ballard proved the pokemon community's desperation by selling his list on ebay. Pokemon is degrading into an information war, you're either a great player who will do anything and everything to hide your list, or you're one of the richer players with more money than sense and bribe one of said players to release their list. Because all of this information is withheld from the larger community, we will see tournament after tournament dominated by the same players. Those players who wish to be competitive have no means to do so because they are always going to be a week behind the players who create these decks.

Releasing deck information on the pop website or otherwise evens the playing field. Players now have a very accessible route to finding winning decks and developing ways to improve or counter said decks. I'm not advocating netdecking. I'm advocating a way for competitive players to improve their play by keeping players prepared for upcoming tournaments.
 
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Its up to whoever makes the list and no one else should really be concerned. If someone wants to share their efforts, or not, that's their choice. Its perfectly understandable why they would not want to and I don't see why anyone else thinks its their business to tell them otherwise.
 
Two words, "Iron Chef."

Most of the experienced, and best, players post their ideas there. Any person in neeed of help can go their, search a few pages, and read about the deck+strategies the veteran players have created. Wether they be competitive or not. Why would a person egtting back into the game need to know the list for a secret deck when there are plenty of ideas in the Iron Chef area.
 
Raieggs is nothing special. I saw the combination of the cards at prerelease as a threat so I prepared.

Are you serious? It's been the only deck that doesn't use Powers/Bodies in the history of PTCG, well there were Haymaker decks but those were made cause the format was very dull back then. No one used H. Castform as a starter until Pooka discovered it in Delta. You can argue that there was admin, that's why no one played it. But even then the deck did alright when it was countered at Worlds.

Don't mean to bash. But if you saw the combo why didn't you build it as an SD for Nats and do what those guys did with it? Surely if you had seen the combo you would have built the deck and done well with it since we saw how much the SD factor did for it.
 
At a gym challenge in Ohio I saw raichu/marowak d.

I know people who first tried raichu with eggs 4 months before nats.

I also know that Holon's Castoform was used in metanite before delta.
 
Ok, i've tried reading this whole thread since i didn't keep up with it from the beggining. I have only one thing to say:

PRIME you (just like Marril, sometimes) need to take your brain out of that hard skull of yours and let it absorb what other people are saying.

In nicer words, you need to learn how to say "Yes, I have lost this discussion."

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Why are you guys arguing so much for, its just a game.

he wins, i see basically the same things being said over and over again but in different words (especially by Prime)
 
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Look at it this way. If I were to post a deck on pokegym, I might get a couple of replies. A few people may like the idea. But would they take it seriously? Probably not. What a terribly funny irony it would be if an SD took nationals after being posted on the 'gym or some such forum. The only place where you put your SD in jeopardy is on your team site, and those people should probably know about it anyway. After you win a tourney with it and people start to take it seriously, good luck keeping it under wraps. Most of our archetypes are obvious, and the rest have already won something. Nothing has gone directly from the 'gym to popularity. It's a "safe" forum.
 
Exactly, if players are forced to give out their lists, you create a healthier format because then other players have a much better idea of how a certain deck plays. If so, they learn about how the deck functions much more easily than word of mouth. Players who take the time to research decklists. Luck is now less of a factor because you know exactly how to play around a certain deck. Secret decks don't necessarily win because they're secret, they win because no one figures out how to play against those decks until it's too late. Eggs took nats by beating every LBS in the room, but after a few weeks worth of testing against it, the deck wasn't that effective in the first place.

Is there a problem? Yes, there's a problem. I'm starting to see the game dominated by a few players that hold a game breaking amount of information. The signs started appearing after Jimmy Ballard proved the pokemon community's desperation by selling his list on ebay. Pokemon is degrading into an information war, you're either a great player who will do anything and everything to hide your list, or you're one of the richer players with more money than sense and bribe one of said players to release their list. Because all of this information is withheld from the larger community, we will see tournament after tournament dominated by the same players. Those players who wish to be competitive have no means to do so because they are always going to be a week behind the players who create these decks.

Releasing deck information on the pop website or otherwise evens the playing field. Players now have a very accessible route to finding winning decks and developing ways to improve or counter said decks. I'm not advocating netdecking. I'm advocating a way for competitive players to improve their play by keeping players prepared for upcoming tournaments.


You have got to be kidding...right? Why does the playing field have to be even? The top players become top players because they work hard, learn the cards and win!!....they do not owe me, you or anyone their hard worked lists. This is not a socialistic organization. If you want to make great competitive deck lists, do as they do....playtest ,playtest ,playtest. Don't expect hand outs.
 
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