Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Why, exactly, are we playing single-game?

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This is the way it is now, so DEAL WITH IT! If you get beat quickly, it sucks, ya, I know the feeling, but what REALLY sucks is losing on time! Trust me, BO3 in 45 min will give the better players a huge disadvantage, 'cause single battles between good players can last 30 min +! After one battle, all the winning player has to do is stall a little, and WIN! In a lot of ways, I hate BO3, and I do not want to see Swiss move to that!
 
Dark Weedle said:
while one game does allow for a riolu donk, it also means a deck that has a horrible matchup like an 80 20, will actually have a chance to win 1 in 5 games. In a 2/3 the 20 has virtually no chance.
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Then may I ask you about how the win with the "Blissey Boost Pluspower Pluspower I win cuz you didnt get to draw into your Mentor/Roseanne/Great Ball/Celio/Whatever" win stacks up to that? That doesn't alter anything to the matchup.

And rerisenphoenix, would you DEAL WITH IT if its best of three? I DEAL WITH IT the way it is now, despite the fact that I hate it. I'm just making a case for best of three, DEAL WITH THAT.

And in your example, at least both players enjoyed at least ONE good game. If I lose that kind of way in a single-game play, I do not mind either. But if I get donked and have no chance to fight back (which I'd have with Best Of Three), I would.

And yeah, losing on time sucks. But I rather lose on time as that I get donked and am done within a mere minute. Besides, if the opponent stalls, last time I checked you can urge a judge to keep an eye on that.
 
If your opponent can even get out Blissey, it means you have had a turn to prevent yourself from being donked; and if you argue that they play Rare candy, that's 6 cards they have to get to make that work.

This whole thread is a delayed sour grapes post.
 
Again, consistency. It has to be consistent across the board. If one venue is limited to single matches, then ALL events MUST be limited to single game matches to ensure consistency. Once again, MOST if not ALL venues have some sort of time constraints. In order to satisfy those time constraints and still run a meaningful tournament, there is a need to run single game swiss. Again, 170 players at Regionals. 6 rounds, top 16. It took us 13 hours and 30 minutes to complete the tournament using single games in Swiss. You tell us to do 2/3 45 minutes, and we wouldn't have been out of there until about 2 hours after the lease ran out. Most venues don't allow for a lease to run past midnight. There are also MANY venues that don't open until a certain time (in my case, 1:00 pm). Consistency must be maintained across the board in order for the season to be legitimate. In this case, the consistency is pandering to the simplest and most time saving method of assuring at least a reasonable event (don't get me started on single elimination events).

My bad on YGO tourneys. My memory was of events from a couple of years ago. Still, 800 players cutting to 16 is terrible, worse than our 400 cut to 32.
 
Answer: because this isn't Magic The Gathering and we don't want to stay up until 2 am for Pre-Releases and Cities. Playing 3/5 for top cut sounds very.. Long....
 
Scipio, read what everybody is saying. Everybody is giving valid arguments.

T2 DONK is part of the game.

Let me ask you this, have you ever been T1 DONKED?
I have, and I have done it also. Did the player get mad at me? NO. When it happened to me, did I get mad, NO. In fact, I said i hold the record of the shortest game. 3 seconds.

Now, Time constraints are a huge thing. Yes Nats is spread over 2 days, Swiss on 1, and Top Cut on the other.

2/3 45 vs 1/1 30

16 players enter
4 rounds, T4
1/1 = 2 hours base
2/3 = 3 hours base
and T4 2 hours added base

4 hours vs 5 hours

lets go higher

64 players T16
6 rounds same schematics
1/1 = 3 hours
2/3 = 4.5 hours

4 hours top cut

7 vs 8.5

Now lets use a nationals example

512 enterants
9 rounds swiss T32 (even though it should be T128)
1/1 = 4.5 hours
2/3 = 12.75 hours

5 hours top

9.5 total vs 17.75 total base time


these do not include any breaks, and any breakdowns, overtime games, etc.

So now, you tell me, what would you rather pay for rent wise, a 10 hour venu, or a 20 hour venue?

~Duke
 
Duke and others,

The premise of the rating system is that match outcomes are determined by relative player skill. Since we agree that 2/3 makes it more likely that the match outcome reflects the skill between the players it is impossible not to conclude that single game swiss should be the exception and not the rule. Donk results make ratings determination problematic.

Arguements about 20 hours vs 10 hours are not valid because they don't apply to any tournaments around the world. I think you have your math wrong for the 512 player event.

16 players +1 hour play time
32 players +1.25 hours play time
64 players +1.5 hours play time
128 players +1.75 hours play time
256 players + 2 hours play time
512 players +2.25 hours play time
1024 players +2.5 hours play time

I very much doubt that a 10 hour event would ever become 20 hours solely because of the introducton of 45 minute 2/3 play in the swiss!
 
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Best of 3 with a time limit of 30 minutes per match :tongue:. Then you don't have time issues and you can still win if you get donked T2 (hard with 25 min. left but but possible if you are really better than the opponent)
 
DukeFireBird said:
Scipio, read what everybody is saying. Everybody is giving valid arguments.

T2 DONK is part of the game.

Let me ask you this, have you ever been T1 DONKED?
I have, and I have done it also. Did the player get mad at me? NO. When it happened to me, did I get mad, NO. In fact, I said i hold the record of the shortest game. 3 seconds.
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I assure you, if you call that a match, or even winning by ANY Standard, your concept of a game is wrong. Thats not a game- thats like walking into a room, saying "Hello, goodbye" and walking straight back out- there's no point.

You travel halfway across your country/city even the World for some (may not be the case with everyone- i'm sure, but for the majority), entering a tournament, wanting to play ~8+ GOOD matches... I'd be FURIOUS if any of my games were over by T1 or 2. I came to a tournament to PLAY, not to see myself or my opponent pack up cards within mere seconds of placing down our basic Pokemon.

Sure, you and others don't have an issue with it but that's not the principle here. T1/2 Donks are apart of the game but shouldn't be- making matches best 2/3 might not eradicate the problem totally, but it would sure as heck put an extremely large cap on the amount of Donks out there.

The only problem with it is time. In events where you would see greater than 7 or 8 rounds of Swiss, then you have a problem.
 
BJJ763 said:
One factor is time. 5 rounds of swiss is 2.5 hours single game. Best 2/3 is 5 hours. Then 2 more hours of T4.

And with more attendance......
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I have to agree with you on this one. If there are "technicalities" like, starting late, then you have to do short rounds (I think) about 15 or 30 minutes.

Course for those with fast/speed decks who get what they want in 2 or 3 moves, then the game is pretty much done....so to speak.
 
Ardoptres said:
*looks at sig*

Yeah, ok...
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Odds are you never faced a DUMBO deck. I have a Gallantry because I just so happen to be a Gardevoir fanatic, and Megagatr cuz, well, I got the cards.

And these decks require a bit more strategy as Blissey or Mario.

But that's straying from the point of this topic, don't you think?

Anyway, LionheartEX hit the nail on the head. Donks happen, true, but give someone the time to fight back. That T2 blissey argument, hey, ever heard of hands that look like this: Ralts-Psychic Energy-Psychic Energy-Gardevoir-Double Rainbow Energy-Gardevoir LVX-Gallade, and draw for a Windstorm? No? Then I wonder how lucky you are. And to me, that isnt really a good thing for competive playing, if you don't get a chance to fight back.
 
I won't argue the fact that it isn't fun to see your deck go down in flames during the first 3 turns. However, it is a fact that it happens. Donks will always happen. And time constraints will always happen. Complaining about having to do 1 game matches will always happen, but they are a fact of life. Those who have the chance to do best of 3 matches, consider yourselves lucky I guess. But don't expect to do them forever, since there should be some form of standard everyone should be able to expect when going from a district in wherever you are to Timbuktu. Everyone should expect the same type of basic structure here in Canada, as in Holland, or Austria. It would certainly make more sense. My .02
 
Scipio said:
Odds are you never faced a DUMBO deck. I have a Gallantry because I just so happen to be a Gardevoir fanatic, and Megagatr cuz, well, I got the cards.

And these decks require a bit more strategy as Blissey or Mario.

But that's straying from the point of this topic, don't you think?

Anyway, LionheartEX hit the nail on the head. Donks happen, true, but give someone the time to fight back. That T2 blissey argument, hey, ever heard of hands that look like this: Ralts-Psychic Energy-Psychic Energy-Gardevoir-Double Rainbow Energy-Gardevoir LVX-Gallade, and draw for a Windstorm? No? Then I wonder how lucky you are. And to me, that isnt really a good thing for competive playing, if you don't get a chance to fight back.
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Unfortunately another factor is people will do whatever it takes to win sometimes- it's something that sickens me to watch when it does happen, but it does.
 
Why is it not OK to build decks that doink other folks? Winning fast is a valid way to win. Banette ex was pretty much that last season. There is nothing stopping someone from building a Farfetch'd deck with 4 Plus Power, 4 Str. Charm, 4 Castaway, etc. and going for the T1-2 KO. Taking time to build and test a deck is nearly as important as playing it. If someone spends the time to make a deck like that and beats me with it I wouldn't get mad. I would think that they were clever and thank them for the good game.
 
If they do go to best 2/3 in swiss and people get donked the first two games what will happen then? Wait i know the answer. People will then whine they want it best 3/5 in swiss. A turn one win is just as legitimate as playing the full 30 minutes to win.
 
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