Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

3 Regionals? Seriously?

. This is because in order to remain competitive for a Worlds invite, players need to maximize their attendance at events where there are a high number of Championship Points at stake. Players who attend 6 States/Regionals have an advantage over players who attend 5 States/Regionals because they get more chances improve their "top 4" performances. When the best finish limit is 4, playing in 5 or 6 events makes a tremendous difference.

It does not mean that at all...what it means is...if you cannot afford to attend all 3 regionals...and you think you are one of the chosen few who are the best...then you should not need to attend all 3 because you have maximized your points in the events you could attend....there is no guarantee for anyone that they will grab up all the points...every regional this year will be in a different format due to new cards.

OR you could just to like one player does every year at NATS.....top 8 there....or is he the only player who truly deserves to represent us. And dont say he is lucky evey year.
 
I have to say that I am all for the split. I have several angles that make me feel this way, and will try to not bore everyone to death or ramble on too much.

As a player, more potential to play is good. Now granted its not likely that most will have more than one within 8 hours driving, and will have to take a great deal of time and $$ to go to more than 1 but the option is there.

As a PTO, more players with opportunity to come to events is good. We all love to see big crowds at events we host, judge, etc. More players doing what they love = more fun for all. It also allows members of the amazing judging/staff pool to potentially work at several events. Additionally, with some staff wanting to play and work, this gives them the chance to do a little of each.

As a parent, again more opportunities for my kids to play the game and perhaps win some stuff is good. Now lets be realistic, if we were only doing this for the monetary rewards that could possibly be won, we would have stopped long ago. I mean, how many hundreds and thousnads have so many of us sunk into trips in hopes of winning a scholarship, or travel award, and come up a coin flip short. But to be able to meet new people, hang out with old frineds, and to play the game we love is alll worth it. The prizes just make it that much better.

As a working stiff I like it too. I work a substantial number of weekends. When we only had 1 regional date I had to hope that it was my weekend off. The opportunity to take vacation was there sometimes, and sometimes denied. the fact that they now fall on 3 weekends gives me a chance to go to the next one if I work during this one. It also allows me to ask for one of 3 weekends off, instead of only 1.

Now the arguements can be legitimately made that those with larger wallets and more time off will have some advantage to this situation, and I would agree. Also those that may have shorter distances to travel will be more likely to go to all 3 verses someone that is 8+ hours from the closest one, which can give them a leg up. But you cant tell me that anyone that is compeditive in this game isnt going to do all they can to get to every event possible. Sharing rides, hotel rooms, driving duty, etc.?? Isnt this what we have all done all along anyways??
 
It does not mean that at all...what it means is...if you cannot afford to attend all 3 regionals...and you think you are one of the chosen few who are the best...then you should not need to attend all 3 because you have maximized your points in the events you could attend....there is no guarantee for anyone that they will grab up all the points...every regional this year will be in a different format due to new cards.

OR you could just to like one player does every year at NATS.....top 8 there....or is he the only player who truly deserves to represent us. And dont say he is lucky evey year.

Is it possible to make worlds playing less than the 3 regionals? Of course. But it is definitely still a disadvantage, and potentially a significant one. There is still an element of unfairness when the system says:

You can travel wherever, whenever you want? Just play like a top 40 player and make worlds!

Oh, can't make those 2nd and 3rd regionals 8+ hours away? Just play like a top 20/top 10 player and make worlds!

There is luck in the game, and no player can just get 1st every time to not need the 3rd regional (see Raen's post a page back). Even the best player in the world will be far more likely to make worlds if they have to play/get luck of a top 40 player, rather than play/get luck of a top 10/top 20 player. Obviously if you are somewhere between the 10th and 50th best player in the world, it will affect your chances greatly too.
 
It does not mean that at all...what it means is...if you cannot afford to attend all 3 regionals...and you think you are one of the chosen few who are the best...then you should not need to attend all 3 because you have maximized your points in the events you could attend.

This year, I only attended 5 Cities and 4 States/Regionals (Masters, NA). Fortunately, I did well enough to have clinched the Worlds invite after Spring Regionals. In fact, I have the lowest Play! Point total out of all American players ranked in the top 40 because of how few tournaments I attended this year. I am one of those people you describe, who do not need to attend all the events because I have maximized my points in the events I attended.

I'm pointing this out to show that I'm not arguing on my own behalf. I'm actually fine with the 3 Regionals because I have the financial means to fly to whatever Regionals that I want to attend. While advantageous for me personally, I think that having 3 weekends of Regionals without either (1) increasing the total number of Regionals or (2) increasing the prize support is bad for a majority of competitive players who are less fortunate than I am.

Why is it bad? I'll quote Raen to rebut your argument. He couldn't have phrased it any better:

"The simple fact is, the more tournaments you go to, the more likely you are to hit the Best Finish limit. Think about City Championships. The limit was 5 (I think? I could be wrong here, it was around there, but I'm lazy and don't want to look it up). If I attended 5 Cities, I could in theory reach the best finish limit. But the odds, looking at pure luck, are pretty slim for that. If I attended 10 cities, my chances of making the limit are far higher. 15 cities? Way, WAY higher.

"This applies to 3 Regionals. Attending 3 States and 3 Regionals give you 6 shots to earn points in 4 events. Attending 3 State and 2 Regionals gives you 5 shots to earn points in 4 events. Attending 2 States and 2 Regionals gives you only 4 chances to earn points in 4 events, meaning you CANT have a bad luck streak at ANY of these events, or your rating is in jeopardy. Now imagine going to 2 States and 1 Regionals like we use to have in the past; You had better do incredibly well at Cities if you want an invite going to that many Regs and States."​
The logic in Raen's post is infallible. Please read it carefully.

OR you could just to like one player does every year at NATS.....top 8 there....or is he the only player who truly deserves to represent us. And dont say he is lucky evey year.

Implying that anyone else could possess the magical powers of Tom Dolezal is just blasphemous. :tongue:
 
^^^^

Honestly, anyone who doesn't see the negative effects of this is either very ignorant, or just doesn't care for the players with a little less money/time on their hands. More tournaments is GREAT, but not when they require lots of travel. If we didn't use the CP system, it would be wonderful, but the current system very much favors richer players.
 
This year, I only attended 5 Cities and 4 States/Regionals (Masters, NA). Fortunately, I did well enough to have clinched the Worlds invite after Spring Regionals. In fact, I have the lowest Play! Point total out of all American players ranked in the top 40 because of how few tournaments I attended this year. I am one of those people you describe, who do not need to attend all the events because I have maximized my points in the events I attended.
:

Congratulations!!!...But then again you did also argue the point of not needing to go to every possible event to earn your invite. You did extremely well at the major events you attended. Well done!!!:thumb:
 
^^^^

Honestly, anyone who doesn't see the negative effects of this is either very ignorant, or just doesn't care for the players with a little less money/time on their hands. More tournaments is GREAT, but not when they require lots of travel. If we didn't use the CP system, it would be wonderful, but the current system very much favors richer players.

With all due respect i dont consider myself a person that is either ignorant or not caring about players. I am by no means a rich man. I am a blue collar worker that has worked at least 2 jobs for over 20 years. Additionally, as a PTO, I care a great deal about the players. Lets face it, if it wasnt for the players, I wouldnt need to do what I do.

Now I do agree that there are some negative aspects to there being 3 opportunities for players to potentially go to Regionals. But I also think that if ou read my post earlier in the thread, I bring several points to the table from different views that are for it and make sense. Now each one may not be beneficial to everyone, and I agree. But I do think that the positives outweigh the negatives.

The fact that you come out and say that everyone who doesnt agree with you is either ignorant or doesnt care about the players is a bit of an insult, and thats fine. I accept. Fire more shots if you wish. I got big shoulders.
 
With all due respect i dont consider myself a person that is either ignorant or not caring about players. I am by no means a rich man. I am a blue collar worker that has worked at least 2 jobs for over 20 years. Additionally, as a PTO, I care a great deal about the players. Lets face it, if it wasnt for the players, I wouldnt need to do what I do.

Now I do agree that there are some negative aspects to there being 3 opportunities for players to potentially go to Regionals. But I also think that if ou read my post earlier in the thread, I bring several points to the table from different views that are for it and make sense. Now each one may not be beneficial to everyone, and I agree. But I do think that the positives outweigh the negatives.

The fact that you come out and say that everyone who doesnt agree with you is either ignorant or doesnt care about the players is a bit of an insult, and thats fine. I accept. Fire more shots if you wish. I got big shoulders.
He didn't say you didn't care about players. He said about players with little money and means of travel. That is a big difference here, although even then I'd say he is being a bit unfair.

Let me say this: I understand the appeal of 3 Regionals. With this system, there is a major premier event available to attend every month of the year, which is fantastic! HOWEVER, the simple fact is that not very many people can actually attend that 1 premier event every month with this system. In fact, MOST people will not attend 3 Regionals.

I don't know if you all have noticed, but the significant bulk of the player is made up of college students from the ages 19 - 23 or so. The simple fact is that the vast majority of college student don't have a lot of money. Most can't afford to work a full time job, or multiple part-time jobs, or else they would do poorly in school. Those who do work full-time (or work multiple part time jobs) and attend school probably don't have time to play Pokemon anyway, much less travel to events. Most college students struggle to afford food, books, housing, and tuition each semester. I know I'm in that boat (in fact, I'm no longer attending school due to financial difficulties, and needless to say, I'm also not playing Pokemon next year and likely not the next either, although that's not only due to finances). Now, yes, some students have scholarships, or have wealthy parents, but the vast majority don't. Also worth noting, that particular age group I mentioned has, BY FAR, the greatest unemployment rate in the USA, to my knowledge.

So, recognizing that most of your players are young college students, and understanding that they tend to not have much money, AND recognizing that Pokemon is an expensive hobby, you can see where even the slightest increase in cost is going to start causing problems for a lot of people. 2 Regionals already caused that problem for quite a lot of people last year; I knew a LOT of people that only attended 1 Regional who would have had far greater chances at a Worlds invite if they had that 2nd Regional to attend. A 3rd just makes it THAT much harder, since those with the means WILL attend all the Regionals and WILL have a greater statistical probability of getting a Worlds invite. That just how it works. Arguing that they do NOT have an advantage by attending 3 Regionals is a flat out lie, or an ignorant over-sight.

I will say that 3 Regionals is awesome when Regionals are somewhat near by. 3 States works because most people don't have to drive more than 5-6 hours to attend a State Championship in an adjacent State, and it's very easy to make the trip over Fri-Sun, and it's easy to find carpools and such. However, when your nearest option for a 3rd Regional is 10+ hours, THEN you have a problem. For this new system to be fair, we need MORE Regionals, probably about 3 more.

Of course, this isn't a huge problem everywhere. For example, where I am at right now, the 3 Regs I'm looking at going to (if I was playing this year), would be St. Louis (2 hours from me), Indiana (6 hours from me), and Wisconsin (9-ish hours I think). Wisconsin is pretty far, but other than that, it's easy to attend those.

But I would argue that the vast majority of the country doesn't have that same luxury, ESPECIALLY the West. Where I usually play, Utah, Every Regional is 9+ hours away, except every other year when we hold Colorado Regs in Utah. But that still means that every year you need to attend 2 9+ hour drive tourneys that require at least 3 nights in a hotel, and every other year you need to attend THREE events that are 9 to 10 hours away and require 3 nights in a hotel. That is INSANE. Some places have it even worse.

Anyway, there goes another 15+ minutes of my life spent writing a huge post most people won't read :p Ultimately, I guess my point is that yes, going to 3 Regionals is important to getting an invite, and yes, it is disadvantageous to not attend all 3 Regionals. There aren't enough Regionals to give people a reasonable drive to attend them all, and so the game begins to favor MORE HEAVILY those with money. Obviously, that will ALWAYS be the case in games, and that's fine. But there has to be a point where that advantage becomes too great, and you begin to push away your biggest player demographic (young adults) due to their hopelessness in ever accomplishing much in the game. 3 Regs without adding more gets us dangerously close to that alienating point.
 
His point is rather badly being misrepresented, most of all by himself.

His point should be that, with 3 Regional Championship weekends, there should be more than 15 Regional Championships so that players have a chance at actually making it to all 3.

It's not like North America is devoid of populous, underserved areas. Minneapolis. Kansas City / Nebraska. Utah/Colorado (whichever one doesn't get Regional). Washington State. California. New Mexico / Arizona. Oklahoma. Louisiana. Tennessee. I'm certain there's one or two in Canadia (^_~). These are all player-populous areas that are currently served by 1 or 2 Regional Championships within reasonable driving distance.

I know that, if I want to go to more than 1 Regional, I'm going to have to fly out there. I'm definitely flying down to StL, and driving down to Wisconsin, or wherever Jimmy's holding Regionals. I'm hoping that either Philly or Texas need Judges/Staff, but I also need to juggle my work schedule around that. This might be the first year I'll be missing a Regional Championship in 4 years. Not 6 months after missing Nationals (for a completely different reason).

This is gonna be an interesting year, to say the least.
 
With all due respect i dont consider myself a person that is either ignorant or not caring about players. I am by no means a rich man. I am a blue collar worker that has worked at least 2 jobs for over 20 years. Additionally, as a PTO, I care a great deal about the players. Lets face it, if it wasnt for the players, I wouldnt need to do what I do.

Now I do agree that there are some negative aspects to there being 3 opportunities for players to potentially go to Regionals. But I also think that if ou read my post earlier in the thread, I bring several points to the table from different views that are for it and make sense. Now each one may not be beneficial to everyone, and I agree. But I do think that the positives outweigh the negatives.

The fact that you come out and say that everyone who doesnt agree with you is either ignorant or doesnt care about the players is a bit of an insult, and thats fine. I accept. Fire more shots if you wish. I got big shoulders.

Excuse me if I disrespected or offended you or anyone else, that wasn't my intention. I respect the work you've done as a PTO and I appreciate the work all TOs have done. I wasn't really taking Judges or PTOs into account when I made my post, and I shouldn't have tried to put an umbrella over everyone.

My comment wasn't geared at everyone who disagrees with me- you clearly state that, yes in fact, there are negative aspects to having three regionals. I said the people who think that there is nothing but good coming from this. It's going to be hard on some players, and the true top 40 will not be accurately represented. People who won't acknowledge that obviously aren't looking at both sides of the issue.
 
Excuse me if I disrespected or offended you or anyone else, that wasn't my intention. I respect the work you've done as a PTO and I appreciate the work all TOs have done. I wasn't really taking Judges or PTOs into account when I made my post, and I shouldn't have tried to put an umbrella over everyone.

My comment wasn't geared at everyone who disagrees with me- you clearly state that, yes in fact, there are negative aspects to having three regionals. I said the people who think that there is nothing but good coming from this. It's going to be hard on some players, and the true top 40 will not be accurately represented. People who won't acknowledge that obviously aren't looking at both sides of the issue.

Understandable. The only reason I responded to it as i did was becaue of the general statement you made about players with little or no $$, qnd towards those that arent completely against the change. If you read what I wrote above ( and I am sure you did) you can see that I too do not have unlimited funds. Lets face it, with the economy what it is, everyone struggles. My point behind all of that was its not just younger(lets say college age people) that have had or will have tough times getting to all or most of these. Families like mine have to cut whatever they can to make ends meet too. But if you love the game like I think you do, and you want to have a legitimate chance at getting an invite, you find a way. Second jobs, tutoring, whatever it takes, if you want it bad enough. I work 3 jobs currently to ensure that we have enough to go around for all things, including Pokemon.

Also my points as to why I am in favor of the change are not limited to the judge/PTO side of things. I love playing the game just as much as anyone else. I also look at it from a parent's point of view, and finding great joy in my children's excitement of playing.

I would also like to add that during my college years i was a full time student, had a full time job, a part time job, and tutored 15 to 20 hours a week. I didnt have a rich family to pay for everything so I worked as much as I could to pay for school, my car, and my other bills. Now I dont recommend that anyone try to pull this off like I did for 3 years.... its crazy!! But there are plenty of opportunities during the summer, over holiday, or whenever you can to earn a few bucks to put towards things like Pokemon.

I do appreciate your comments discussing all of this, and I feel that more discussion is needed if that many people are bothered by it. Please just refrain from generic statements that cover more people than they should.

Thanks for reading.
 
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Pokémon has never been a "profitable" game for the players. Unless you finish Top 4 at Nationals or Worlds, odds are you are paying for a lot of your travel to be competitive. Unfortunately, the prizes don't justify the cost of attending all these events, but that's the way it's always been. Overall, Regionals being split into three different times is a good thing. As long as the best finish limits are done appropriately, having more tournaments is a positive. Keep in mind that I didn't attend the first week of States and still finished with a comfortable 60 Championship Points (11 more than necessary to qualify for Worlds).
 
Yeah, but not everyone can be Pooka...and Pooka you are cool, but you're no John Roberts II.

(OK, that is becoming the catch phrase at our store - Yeti John Roberts II Celebration last night - 50+ in attendance...including John's wife and 5 day old son (who just was there for a brief spell before he was wisked away - REALLY cute kid!!!)

I am blabbing on just to delay confirming...

St. Louis Regionals in January.

Vince
 
My point behind all of that was its not just younger(lets say college age people) that have had or will have tough times getting to all or most of these. Families like mine have to cut whatever they can to make ends meet too. But if you love the game like I think you do, and you want to have a legitimate chance at getting an invite, you find a way. Second jobs, tutoring, whatever it takes, if you want it bad enough. I work 3 jobs currently to ensure that we have enough to go around for all things, including Pokemon.

Your dedication to the game is commendable, and indeed we all make sacrifices to play. But there certainly is a point where those sacrifices become too much to be possible, or the amount of sacrifice needed just upsets the players and turns them away. Pokemon is certainly pushing this envelope IMO when they've added 2 further away regionals, 1 further away state, and 2 full seasons of Battle Roads to the competitive player's schedule all within the last year.

It will likely always be possible to be competitive, but if the means to do so becomes more and more of a burden to player's overall lives, that won't make them happy, and that's not good for the game. (And yes, I know there are positives to this decision too, but the negatives are also undeniable)
 
Your dedication to the game is commendable, and indeed we all make sacrifices to play. But there certainly is a point where those sacrifices become too much to be possible, or the amount of sacrifice needed just upsets the players and turns them away. Pokemon is certainly pushing this envelope IMO when they've added 2 further away regionals, 1 further away state, and 2 full seasons of Battle Roads to the competitive player's schedule all within the last year.

It will likely always be possible to be competitive, but if the means to do so becomes more and more of a burden to player's overall lives, that won't make them happy, and that's not good for the game. (And yes, I know there are positives to this decision too, but the negatives are also undeniable)

The point where Pokemon becomes a burden on a persons life is the day they need to probably re-examine whats going on overall...just sayin
 
The point where Pokemon becomes a burden on a persons life is the day they need to probably re-examine whats going on overall...just sayin

Some people think the "they" you describe should be the players. Some people think the "they" you describe should be TPCi. Let me express my opinion about your statement:

The point where Pokemon becomes a burden on a substantial amount of players' lives is the day that TPCi probably needs to re-examine their tournament schedule and Worlds invite structure.
(Keep in mind that the new schedule is not a burden on my own personal life. I think that the time and money it takes to fly to the "far" Regionals is inconsequential. However, I believe that this is not true for many other competitive players, especially those players who are still in college or just started working after graduation.)
 
I agree with Ross' sentiment.

Ross' concern doesnt apply to everyone as its not common for anyone to go to every tournament possible. However, for a few select individuals/groups, the combination of undying willingness to play as much as possible (usually for a worlds invite) and the increased tournament schedule load could now be in an unhealthy balance.
 
The point where Pokemon becomes a burden on a persons life is the day they need to probably re-examine whats going on overall...just sayin
A truly competitive player will do everything possible to attain a World Championships invite. That is the pinnacle of the competitive scene; the best of the best, the very top of the food chain. NOT reaching for that goal means you are not truly being competitive.

If, in order to accomplish that, Pokemon HAS to become a burden on someone's personal life, then we have a problem. We are approaching that point. And many people will re-examine what is going on and will QUIT PLAYING POKEMON.
 
A truly competitive player will do everything possible to attain a World Championships invite. That is the pinnacle of the competitive scene; the best of the best, the very top of the food chain. NOT reaching for that goal means you are not truly being competitive.

If, in order to accomplish that, Pokemon HAS to become a burden on someone's personal life, then we have a problem. We are approaching that point. And many people will re-examine what is going on and will QUIT PLAYING POKEMON.

This will happen...I agree...and we will still continue to grow...I have been in this since 2003...lots of people coming in and out and back in over the years.

But telling us are making tournament play too available for the general playing population...thats ridiculous.
 
This will happen...I agree...and we will still continue to grow...I have been in this since 2003...lots of people coming in and out and back in over the years.

But telling us are making tournament play too available for the general playing population...thats ridiculous.
You are missing the point of what I'm arguing.

Adding a 3rd Regional weekend does not, in my opinion, make tournament play more available to the general playing population. It makes it equally -- and potentially less -- available. Some people will have an easier time attending Regionals with this new system. Some will have an equally difficult time attending a Regional. Some will have a harder time attending a Regional. So, for your average joe, this really changes nothing. Most people only attend the Regional that is closest to them. I don't see how adding the 3rd weekend changes that at all.

However, what it DOES change is the amount of traveling highly competitive players have to do to compete for their Worlds invite.
 
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