Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

$700 for a PSA 10 1st Edition Base Set Charizard?

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Well, adjusted for inflation you paid the equivalent of about $490 in 1995 dollars when Charizard first came out.
 
ColdCoates90 said:
Few people care about psa graded cards anyway; the fact that you say a rare card can't achieve a psa graded value of 10 and thus be considered a "trophy" card is humorous to say the least.

Also, a first edition anything pales in comparison to a card that was printed in limited copies.
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thank you for reading my post, but i did not say it would not be considered a trophy card because of its grade but i must admit, unless i was filthy rich i would be scared to pay the collectors price for one of these cards that was not graded, however dispite having the power to reprint these cards i drastically doubt they ever will, after really studying the trophy cards i have come to the conclusion that the 1997 no 1 trainer trophy card in hypothetical gem mint condition is the true holygrail of pokemon cards as it is 1 of a kind so is the 1998 and 1999, i beleive you that most others a perfect grade does not matter, but an extremest would really want one, i don't know how these cards were presented or if thay were hard toploaded as psa 10 can tell if a card has been bent even if there was no apperent damage, does not have full gloss which will be definate if exposed to oxygen to often or for a decent period of time, if the card has been simply touched by unclean hands or materials such as a sticky table or dusty bed etc, even an accidental cell of spit on the card would smudge the gloss hence reducing the grade, however since theese cards received extremely small and most likely supervised print runs they were almost definatly forged psa 10s, however typical toploaders bend and receive dust which smudes the cards not to mention oxygen, however if these card were put in closed hard case they would have received 10s suggesting the possesor/possesors did not fiddle/remove the card/ however its fair to assume these cards were either presented in regular toploaders or perhaps naked or with just soft sheets or perhaps the creators held them naked without optimably clean hands prior to the tournament, if they were put in closed hard cases or just closed case that were never bent the oxygen in the container would die makeing these cards ageless and sustained, i called wizards of the coast former distributor of pokemon tcg and asked them a hypothetical qeustion if i was rich could i buy my own private print run of 1st edition base set cards/base set booster boxes 1st edition that were identical in every way to the first print run including material packing and boxing as well as possible errors and varient 1ed stamps and they said yes, they just cant reprint these card for ror retail, and i would have to get/buy a license from pokemon usa giving permission for these cards to be made/ while trophy cards were made by japan without wizards, by mediafactory, before 1st edition was made/ though with money you could probably get these printed to/ and definetly if you forge your own promotion/ these cards are bound by there copyrights and promo back then was like a 1st edition now hence these cards can not be printed for retail and promotion as promo was a 1st edition thing then, still money talks and you could still work somthing out privately, really trophy cards are the best even ungraded are better then non trophy cards anyday, however most would aggree that th only cards you would have to worry about are these, 1997 no 1 no 2 no 3 1998 no 1 no 2 no 3 and 1999 no 1 no 2 no 3 trophy cards, no 1 no 2 no 3 super secret battle 1999 trophy cards, no 1 no 2 no 3 tropical mega battle 1999, 2000, 2001 trophy cards, 1998 pokemon illustrator, holy grail no 1 trianer 1997 one of a kind has its own text, 2nd best 1998 no 1 trainer one of a kind has its own text , number 3 1998 pokemon illustrator six of a kind, the previous are th only other golden age trophy cards these are the trophy cards from the golden era though the 2000 to 2001 tropical mega battle is not it is still from the golden era but with a continued run...
 
I suppose $700 is pretty fare for a 1st ed base charizard.
Because i seen them jump past $ 1k so $700 sounds pretty affordable.
 
I know nothing about pokemon card collecting at this level, and i know nothing about business, but...

Something is only worth what people will pay for it. If we ever get to a point of no return, these "grails" will be worthless. Inflating their price by arbitrarily attaching attractiveness levels to "thick" and "thin" stamps will mean nothing.

While i know nothing, all this information will be interesting in the future (ie. changes.)
 
That is a fatalistic approach. But realistically they are not going to plummet. Hobbies stay popular and collecting cards is worldwide. I have been doing it for years and know collectors around the world and it is just too big.

And anything will loose value in an anarchy, that just goes without saying but doesn't really need to be said because its not happening.
 
smpratte said:
So this is what you are talking about,

http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=48765&c=173
http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=33849&c=173
http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=33850&c=173

But the holy grail is the pokemon illustrator hands down. People can have personal "holy grails" but majority view the pokemon illustrator as the rarest card.
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I see not how the pokemon illustrator is the holy grail, as there were six of them won to the public in 1998, while the 1997 no 1 trainer is 1 of a kind not to mention the 1st and most honorable trophy card, the 1997, 1998, and 1999 no 1 trainer cards though on first glance are identical, thay each have different text, again makeing each one, 1 of a kind, majority view can be whatever it wants but the fact is there is one 1997 no 1 trainer trophy card, and six/6 pokemon illustrator cards, so by any form of logic the 1997 no 1 trainer card is six/6 times rarer than a pokemon illustrator card, the first trophy card not to mention the first one of a kind card, hence the 1997 no 1 trainer trophy card, is hands down the holy grail since it is older and rarer than a pokemon illustator, also most people don't know much about these cards, because in depth and complete information is very hard to find not to mention spread in different areas, i myself have been learning about pokemon tcg on a extreme, obsessive, and intellectual level for a substantial amout of time and just recently acquired complete knowledge about the vintage trophy cards, due to again information being scattered and hard to find, plus the illustrator card is more known and much easier to read about on a quick search, hence a mediocre pokemon tcg fan/player/collector, or simply one specimen of mankind who knows next to nothing about pokemon tcg simply curious to know what the best card is would read from these consumer articles, and simply think that the rarest card is the pokemon illustrator as the article would suggeset, most of these top articles are written by people who know nothing about pokemon tcg, hence your statement saying the pokemon illustrator is viewed by the majority as the rarest card has been thrashed hands down.

You stated that i am wrong and pokemon tcg will always have collectors, however the original vintage cards will not, because buying these cards would be something future generations would never think about doing as they never felt the wonder of these packs, etc, and would have no idea how awesome these cards were, as there not going to run into them at albertsons, i honestly beleive pokemon usa lost there mind, everything that was good about pokemon cards is gone the golden age is long gone, ending at neo destiny with the rest of the vintage promotional cards, now pokemon cards are just consumer cardboard cuts made of cute and cool characters, true trash, but im happy this happened, they made just enough, since they stopped makeing them now i can collect them all, sure there are alot of collectors now and will not stop until the day they die however, that will be the end of vintage cards, though hopefully pokemon usa will regain there sanity and reprint the vintage cards for the new era just with modern day copyrights though, however i seriously doubt that will happen pokemon usa does not value there cards like we do, to them they are just cardboard ink and foil to us there the most awsome, thing besides, land, video games, precious metals and stones, organisms, and the earth and universe itself.

Sure with great money i could get my own private print run of the vintage cards such as base set 1st edition booster boxes and even the trophy cards with the same copyrights and materials, and these cards would be identical to each other hence indestinguishable, making them not reprints but the original cards, i know the creators of these cards don't think even remotely high about these cards, like we do, i don't blame them i wouldn't either if i made them, money would talk as long as these cards arent for retail as that would violate copyright laws, still i wouldn't mind going back in time as well to get the trophy cards my self so they get perfect 10s, and buy a whole bunch of 1st edition base set booster boxes just because they were forged with the spirit of the 90s, though if i left my print runs alone for 5 years sentimental value would be equal, still id like to get those so i don't open any of them prior destroying the significance of the desire to open them with sentimental value.

PS psa didn't know how to tell which of the no 1 trophy cards were 1997 1998 and 1999 so they just graded them all 1997. that was psa's only mistake why because information about these cards was to hard to find...
 
The trophy cards from 1997, 1998 and 1999 are not unique.

There are 2 sets from 1997, 3 sets from 1998 and (I think) 6 sets from 1999.
 
DJGigabyte said:
The trophy cards from 1997, 1998 and 1999 are not unique.

There are 2 sets from 1997, 3 sets from 1998 and (I think) 6 sets from 1999.
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thay are indeed unique, though there are reprints of them, 3 of the no 1, 2, and 3, tainers, but with different text, hence makeing your statement offensive, and potently false.
 
I have the 97 No 1 and No 3 trainer in my collection, the illustration is the same throughout. What is different is the text. If you look at my signature in my collection you can see the cards there. The 97 have the shortest text out of the three.

Also regardless of what you think, the illustrator is the holy grail of collecting. It is the most valuable card in that it hits the highest price, and is unique as it is the only card that has illustrator as the title, rather than Trainer. I have seen 2 in my entire time collecting, both going over $10,000 (one for $14,000). No 1st edition card comes close, not even a psa 10 1st edition base set is worth that.

And as much as you value 1st edition cards they are not and will never be as rare as trophy cards. It is not debatable, it is just a fact, the number of trophy cards is so limited compared to cards found in sets you can't even make comparisons on rarity.

Oh and if you are a fan of english cards, the rarest is the pre-release raichu, sold twice for $10,500. That and the pokemon illustrator are on the top as far as rarity goes. Nothing is above them.
 
themightylordzeus said:
thay are indeed unique, though there are reprints of them, 3 of the no 1, 2, and 3, tainers, but with different text, hence makeing your statement offensive, and potently false.
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No. My statement was not false, and the suggestion that it was offensive is laughable.

To prove my point, at one time both smpratte and Will-iam owned 1997 Number 1 Trainers, so there couldn't just be one from each year if they both owned one.
 
Card text (First Official Tournament print)
The Pokémon Card Game Official Tournament's champion is recognized here, and this honor is praised.
By presenting this card, you may gain preferential entry into the Pokémon Card Game Official Tournament.

Card text (Second Official Tournament print)
The Pokémon Card Game Official Tournament's champion is recognized here, and this honor is praised.
This proves that the one who possesses this card participated in the Best in Japan Final Battles of the First Pokémon Card Game Tournament.

Card text (Blastoise Mega Battle print)
The Pokémon Card Game Official Tournament's champion is recognized here, and this honor is praised.
This proves that the one who possesses this card participated in the Best in Japan Final Battles of the Second Pokémon Card Game Tournament.

Release information
This card was released as a promotional card. In Japan, it was awarded to the champions of the First and Second Official Pokémon Card Game Tournaments held in 1997 and 1998 respectively. Another version was also awarded to the champions of the Blastoise Mega Battle in 1999. The card was never released in English.

See 1 only for each year psa did not know about the different text so they graded them all 3 1997.
 
You forgot about the different age divisions.

In 1997 there were just Junior and Senior divisions. So 2 copies of each.

In 1998 there were 3 age divisions. So 3 copies of each.

1999, I'm not 100% sure on, as some people have mentioned there were 6 copies, but I'm still unsure. But there were at least 3, for the 3 age divisons.
 
That is true that psa did not know about which was different, but the numbers Dj is saying are true. 1999 had the most copies, and the text from each year is different but the illustrations are the same.
 
DJGigabyte said:
You forgot about the different age divisions.

In 1997 there were just Junior and Senior divisions. So 2 copies of each.

In 1998 there were 3 age divisions. So 3 copies of each.

1999, I'm not 100% sure on, as some people have mentioned there were 6 copies, but I'm still unsure. But there were at least 3, for the 3 age divisons.
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oh im sorry i could not find any informationa about age divisions, since its not written online, but i beleive you, and since this is true i agree that the, pokemon illustrator is the holygrail, did any of them get graded a gem mint 10 though, thanks DJGigabyte and smpratte for kindly correcting me.
 
themightylordzeus said:
oh im sorry i could not find any informationa about age divisions, since its not written online, but i beleive you, and since this is true i agree that the, pokemon illustrator is the holygrail, did any of them get graded a gem mint 10 though, thanks DJGigabyte and smpratte for kindly correcting me.
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The highest graded Illustrator is PSA8 I believe.

Although people have said if the one currently owned by the Silvestro's was graded it should get a 9 or 10.
 
Thick vs Thin 1st edition stamp and psa 10 pokemon stuff

I am collector of psa 10 1st ed base holos and watch the population closely. There are 406 psa 10 1st ed base holos as of today and approximately 100 are thicks, meaning that 3 out of 4 stamps are thin. (Based on the psa 10 population)
Psa doesn't designate the Thick/Thin distinction unfortunately, mostly because W.O.T.C can't or won't talk about it and Beckett's Unofficial Pokemon Guide is reluctant, hesistant, or flat out refuses to make mention of the controversy. Writing about it would lend credence to the issue thus making psa consider adding a "Thick/Thin" designation to it's card registry.

Is one rarer than the other? Sure. Is one more valuable than the other? Sure
The question is how much more and to whom?
Less than 14 percent of all graded 1st edition holo cards are 10's.
10's are rare.
Only 12.71 percent of all 1st ed base charizards are 10's.
Again 10's are rare.
Just roughing out the numbers 140 boxes or 5000+ packs had to be opened to achieve the graded 1st ed base population as it is now.
No pokemon stash is going to appear and radically change the population or grade ratio.
Graded 1st edition cards have a finite number.
Sooner than later they will be resold and resold again with the price getting higher and higher each time.
The prices that one pays now for 10's will likely be the lowest prices.
My advice is to get them while you can if you want them. I have a feeling that all it would take to see prices skyrocket is a mild pokemon renaissance .
Are they worth it? probably not. Are they worthless? probably not.
It's a hobby not an investment. That's the thing to remember.

If any one out there can help getting the powers that be, Beckett's Unofficial Pokemon Guide or P.S.A designate the thick and thin variant that would be great. They aren't taking my word for it but we all know that it is real.
P.s
the answer to the how much more and to whom? question is not much more and almost no one.
 
The whole thick thin thing is just a couple of sellers getting to close to the fire. It is just a way of making it sound like the cards they have are more rare than what they actually are. Even with acknowledging the thick thin separation the numbers on how many charizards are 10's is still substantially more than trophy cards.

Basically there are tiers in collecting, and psa 10 charizards are in the upper tier, but the highest is reserved for trophy cards. Projections of what the cards will be worth is difficult. The psa 10 charizards will always be valuable, but not as valuable as trophy cards.

You have to remember that some of the trophy cards have sold for thousands even a couple (pre-raichu and illustrator) selling at $9,000 and above. The graded cards are just on a lower level than that, but are still rare and sought after just not as much as trophies.
 
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