A response to those wanting details on decks played

[Lawman]

Then if it is "possible" for even ONE competitor within the format to have access to "public" information that could give that competitor an edge within the format, the PTO should make every effort to ensure that ALL players within the format have that same access. I do not expect a PTO with decklists in their possession to hide those lists when one of their children comes near, but as soon as that child has seen even part of one list every other player should be afforded the same opportunity. Any person should be able to walk up to the TO's table, point at a competitor in the field, and ask for that player's decklist at any time during or after the tournament's conclusion (within reason, of course). The decklist in question should be produced promptly and courteously, and the person who requested it should be given time to copy the list by hand if they so desire.
I am in no way, shape, or form accusing anyone of any unscrupulous behavior, but I have to admit that the appearance is there if even ONE PTO with a child/friend/spouse who plays refuses to disclose a single decklist when asked.

Somehow I missed this response. In reply, I will NEVER hand over another players decklist to a player when they ask for it. Sorry, not going to happen! The ONLY people that will see that decklist will be myself or my judge(s) on the day of the event, for deck checking/registration purposes only!! I secure them after the event, my kids will not see them and they are kept for one year, unless PUI asks for them for some reason.

PTOs take their job very seriously. There is simply no reason for the decklists to be out in the open for ANYONE to see post event. The lists should be secured and separated immediately after the tourney. You seem to be feeding off the reply that a PTO "could" leak deck info to friends and/or family. Those same PTOs (leakers...if they exist) could also be double naught spys for the russians too! Bottom line, deck lists do not and will not be turned over to competitors, at least not on my watch. I dont live with the other 50 or so PTOs in the USA, so I cannot answer for all of them. I just know what I know from the ones I do come into contact with at Nats, Worlds, etc.

Keith

 

[SteveP]

At major events, like States and Regionals, we use non-judges to help do deck checks in a timely manner. There is a risk that deck list information could be leaked before or during the tournament, but we instruct the checkers NOT to reveal info, though we don't actually have them sign a document or swear to anything.

IMO, when a player turns in a decklist, it's implied that the decklist will be controlled and kept from public view. Private viewing of the decklists should be restricted to tournament officials and the applicable players.

PTOs don't share decklists with family and friends. Any that do won't be PTOs for long. However, I don't see any problem with PTOs and other tournament officials sharing general deck information (what they saw during play) with others AFTER a tournament concludes. In fact, it's common practice to announce to the public such statistics as attendance, winners, and winning decks types.

BTW, does anyone know if POP gets permission from a Worlds competitor if his/her winning deck is being considered for publication? I assume they have to get permission to use the player's name in the publication, but I doubt POP needs to ask permission to publish what's on the decklist. If POP does seek permission to use the decklist, that "speaks volumes."

 

[Lawman]

SteveP: That is part of what you sign before you get to worlds, when you get the invite. PUI/OP has the right to use deck contents, etc. I remember filling out the sheets for my son.

Keith

 

[SteveP]

SteveP: That is part of what you sign before you get to worlds, when you get the invite. PUI/OP has the right to use deck contents, etc. I remember filling out the sheets for my son.

Keith

Did you sign an acknowledgement (that PUI/POP has the right to use the decklist) or permission (giving PUI/POP the right)?

A decklist has birthdate information on it, which is sensitive data (especially for people like my wife). :biggrin:

 

[PSYCO829]

If one more person complains that hiding deck names goes against the SOTG i swear by all that is holy i am going to scream

to EVERYONE: they have the right to call their decks whatever they want
you have ABSOLUTELY no right to know what it is
they took the time to develop their decks, and they tested them
thus, they reap the benefit of it
silly people people who demand deck lists (or buy them for $18[!!!!]) are just... well, silly

whats wrong with naming your decks? i called my metanite Ride the Lightning, and introduced it as such in any tournoment report
so they want to call their decks TRUKs, good for them, ITS THEIR DECKS

sorry if the mods feel that this is spam (which it isnt... at all) or bashing, but i needed to say this or i was going to go even more out of my mind

 

[rhodesia123]

no one said hiding deck names is bad. only when you go to a public forum like pokegym and flaunt deck reports that only your clique can decipher, thats when its going a lil too far.

 

[Hatter™]

spam: Hatter decks FTW
anyway, I think its the players choice. You have to think that eventually the deck would get out

 

[PSYCO829]

no one said hiding deck names is bad. only when you go to a public forum like pokegym and flaunt deck reports that only your clique can decipher, thats when its going a lil too far.

no, it isnt going to far
A. its freedom of speech
first amendment, beating the british, consitution, yada yada
you know the drill

B. ignore them. seriously, whenever i hear about \"TRUKS\" or \"Love Letters\", i never even ask whats in them
because IT DOESNT MATTER, i would rather beat a player based on my skill and my decks skill level than by begthoying them until they tell me what it is, and i know the deck

seriously, its not that big a deal
why does everyone get so worked up?

 

[SteveP]

My problem stems from the original post by M45 where he stated it was a player's "right" to keep their deck secret, and PTOs and judges must respect that "right."

I have no problem with players keeping their deck secret. But, if I see you play your "secret" deck, whether I'm judging or not, I'm not going to be "gagged." If you win the tournament with your "secret" deck, I WILL report it - though I'm not going to publish the deck list, I'm going to report the core/tech cards.

PokeGym has some requirements/recommendation for tournament reports. If you can't adhere to them, don't report here. I'm sure PokeGym mods will be more than happy to show you how much "freedom of speech" you have if you want to use their medium to express yourself. Speak all you want. If no one listens, or you don't have any means to make yourself heard, what good is your "freedom?"

 

[PSYCO829]

My problem stems from the original post by M45 where he stated it was a player\\\'s \\\"right\\\" to keep their deck secret, and PTOs and judges must respect that \\\"right.\\\"

I have no problem with players keeping their deck secret. But, if I see you play your \\\"secret\\\" deck, whether I\\\'m judging or not, I\\\'m not going to be \\\"gagged.\\\" If you win the tournament with your \\\"secret\\\" deck, I WILL report it - though I\\\'m not going to publish the deck list, I\\\'m going to report the core/tech cards.

PokeGym has some requirements/recommendation for tournament reports. If you can\\\'t adhere to them, don\\\'t report here. I\\\'m sure PokeGym mods will be more than happy to show you how much \\\"freedom of speech\\\" you have if you want to use their medium to express yourself. Speak all you want. If no one listens, or you don\\\'t have any means to make yourself heard, what good is your \\\"freedom?\\\"

did i say you cant post what was in anyone\\\'s sd\\\'s?
i havent, infact, i havent seen anyone on team hb do so
if i make an uber sd and show it off and a tournoment, and you play me, you have seen what it is, and it is now your knowledge
the only problem i might have with that is if you go out of your way to tell EVERYONE what im playing while at the event
other than that, once again, freedom of speach, say what you will

ive seen the requirements for deck reports, they dont say \\\"you must post every last detail of your deck\\\"
ive also read the reports drivers of the TRUKs have been putting
they have but what they did, they just didnt go into extreme detail, like \\\"i never pulled out my secret lucario tech\\\" or some other such nonsense, but the rules dont require them to

players do have a right to keep their decks secret, and judges have a responsibility to do so
i have yet to see anyone on team hb get angry for posting what the truks were (which i have seen in many places on the gym)

and as for banning, if the mods are really so shallow and pathetic as to ban people for having secret decks (which, incidentally, they arent), the gym will soon be devoid of players, because that would be beyond ludicris and retarded

 

[SD PokeMom]

uhh...we'd not be banning people 'because' they had 'secret decks'...but because they were repeatedly posting 'tournament reports' that are essentially spam because they'd be undeciperable by anyone not in their 'in group'.

'mom

 

[PSYCO829]

uhh...we\'d not be banning people \'because\' they had \'secret decks\'...but because they were repeatedly posting \'tournament reports\' that are essentially spam because they\'d be undeciperable by anyone not in their \'in group\'.

\'mom

not from what ive seen \'mom
they tell others what they are doing while playing it
thay dont go into overly insane detail about it, but they arent insanely secretive
the only report ive seen like that was adam garcias, and he was doing 6 tournoments at once, which he may not have the memory to recall the exxact details of all of them

the decks explain what is in them
a good example was bobby malecs report(s)
in it, he explains he was playing moving truk/blissvire
he didnt leave his exact list, but he did explain his deck

 

[PokePop]

not from what ive seen \'mom
they tell others what they are doing while playing it
thay dont go into overly insane detail about it, but they arent insanely secretive
the only report ive seen like that was adam garcias, and he was doing 6 tournoments at once, which he may not have the memory to recall the exxact details of all of them

the decks explain what is in them
a good example was bobby malecs report(s)
in it, he explains he was playing moving truk/blissvire
he didnt leave his exact list, but he did explain his deck

Tourney reports with at least some minimal amount of information in them have been left alone.
The only ones locked are those that are totally lacking in any kind of meaningful information.

Sorry, but that's not a deck report.

And again (maybe I should put this in my sig?), no one, no one, nooooo onnnnneeeeee, is saying that anyone has to give away their deck list in their tourney report.

No one.

If mentioning one main card in the deck constitutes giving away the deck's secret, then just don't post a report. It's that simple.
You are confusing the constitution and it's amendments (Freedom of Speech) with our message board rules. They are not the same.

 

[PSYCO829]

Tourney reports with at least some minimal amount of information in them have been left alone.
The only ones locked are those that are totally lacking in any kind of meaningful information.

Sorry, but that\'s not a deck report.

And again (maybe I should put this in my sig?), no one, no one, nooooo onnnnneeeeee, is saying that anyone has to give away their deck list in their tourney report.

No one.

If mentioning one main card in the deck constitutes giving away the deck\'s secret, then just don\'t post a report. It\'s that simple.
You are confusing the constitution and it\'s amendments (Freedom of Speech) with our message board rules. They are not the same.

the reports that have no information (which i havent seen any of except for garcia\'s[which you left along...]) are stupid, ill concede that point to you

and i probably should have pointed this out in my other post...

and as for banning, if the mods are really so shallow and pathetic as to ban people for having secret decks (which, incidentally, they arent), the gym will soon be devoid of players, because that would be beyond ludicris and retarded

i said that the mods WONT do that, because that would be **** retentive

if you can find me a team hb report that does not give spec info, ill concede this point as well, because i havent found any

 

[SteveP]

did i say you cant post what was in anyone's sd's?
i havent, infact, i havent seen anyone on team hb do so
if i make an uber sd and show it off and a tournoment, and you play me, you have seen what it is, and it is now your knowledge
the only problem i might have with that is if you go out of your way to tell EVERYONE what im playing while at the event
.....

If I'm a judge, I'm not going to be going around telling everyone anything about what I saw, not until AFTER the tournament. If I'm a player, I'll probably blab.

players do have a right to keep their decks secret, and judges have a responsibility to do so
.....

Don't play your deck if you want it to remain a secret. Judges have no such responsibility other than certain PTOs who choose to impose "unofficial" responsibilities on their judges.

Tell me something meaningful, or tell me nothing at all.

 

[PSYCO829]

If I\'m a judge, I\'m not going to be going around telling everyone anything about what I saw, not until AFTER the tournament. If I\'m a player, I\'ll probably blab.

if you go out of ur way to deliberately reveal what im playing, ur a pathetic waste of space
simple fact
if you mention it in casual conversation or some one asks you, no one will realistically hold it against you

hence why i said out of ur way

Don\'t play your deck if you want it to remain a secret. Judges have no such responsibility other than certain PTOs who choose to impose \"unofficial\" responsibilities on their judges.

Tell me something meaningful, or tell me nothing at all.

if you didnt cut off my post at the one point it shoots down this entire waste of a post, you would see my point

if you feel i have told you nothing useful, you either arent listening/reading, or are just simply wasting my time

i told you players arent insane about keeping their decks secret, and judges shouldnt go around telling everyone the exact list that was played at their tournoments
if you disagree with this, just say so and i will be sure to not respond to any post you ever make again

 

[Prime]

Wouldn't it just be easier if PUI released all deck lists online? No need to worry about keeping your list secret, no accusations towards PTOs about showing their kids lists.

 

[PSYCO829]

Wouldn\'t it just be easier if PUI released all deck lists online? No need to worry about keeping your list secret, no accusations towards PTOs about showing their kids lists.

not a bad idea, and it would keep the flaming down

 

[THE FT. LAUD. LOUD MOUTH]

For this post, the phrases, “TRUK DRIVER” and “HITCH-HIKER” will be defined has below. (What is in () is what it refers to in real life)
TRUK DRVER- One who plays (drives) a deck that they call a TRUK
HITCH-HIKER- One who wants something (a ride), from the TRUK DRIVERS or other motorist, AKA the main Pokémon in their deck.

Also before I get to the main point of this post I need to say I have friends who are TRUK DRVIERS and HITCH-HIKERS. I am taking a neutral look at this issue, analyzing it, and then choosing to support the TRUK DRVIERS, HITCH-HIKERS or remaining neutral.

First the point of view from the TRUK DRIVERS
TRUK DRIVERS, such has Bobby (Penguin Master) and Kant (desert eagle), are a group of people who are out to have a good time. TRUK DRIVERS and their decks are obviously good seeing how TRUK decks have won 50+ battle roads (Source- Gym Member- Scizor). They come on the gym looking for a laugh by posting things like- “My TRUK rolled in a plowed over him T2.” Personally I find it funny and don’t see it has a big problem but after a while it will get a little old, it hasn’t gotten old yet. Despite my personal opinion it does break the forum rules. After a while, the contents of the TRUKS was released, and there was still complaints.

Now the point of view from the HITCH-HIKERS
HITCH-HIKERS are people who use Poke Gym to gain knowledge about cards, combos, decks, etc. They get mad when something like a deck or a trainer engine is discussed but the contents of it is not reviled. This madness is understandable seeing how the gym is a public forum and everyone is suppose to write to read. But even after the TRUKs were reviled there was still complaints, The Australian National Champion Jason for example. If any one doesn’t like something someone post I guess they can just ignore that person and if they see some TRUK nonsense in the title of a thread, don’t read the thread.

The points of view of these two groups conflict each other and the groups argue, this conflict causes my stand on this issue.
Like everything else on Poke Gym (Wicker bickers from the last 2 years, Arguments about the invite structure, Arguments about anything and everything in the RTC, BORED LOCKDOWNS at other forums (Pokebeach and Team M), Mutiple Screenames (Sadness and The Lorax). Just some examples) I am entertained by it. Yes guys I am entertained by it, TRUK DRIVERS started something so stupid and HITCH-HIKERERS complain about it thus adding to the stupidity. ROFL, I think it is great, I guess you can call me Not-So-Nice Motorist (/had to make that PG for Pokegym), If I see a HITCH-HIKER on the side of the road or a TRUK with a flat tire, I’ll laugh my butt off.

MORAL OF THE POST- POKEGYM IS FULL OF IDIOTS AND THEY KEEP ME ENTERTAINED
Keep up the good work guys. I love you all

That is my 2 cents (Plz don’t ban me for having an opinion)

-THE FT. LAUD. LOUD MOUTH

 

[PokePop]

Wow, I can actually read your post!

You make no distinction between those that want a free deck list (CarJackers?), those that look for some secret tidbits such as trainer engines (Hitch Hikers?) and those that just want to know what kind of car or truck that was that went barrelling by (Pedestrians?).

Do you not see any difference in those three?

Blissey or Rampardos is not a secret. It's minimal info about a deck.
Sableye would be a secret. Get the difference?