Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by JandPDS, Nov 13, 2014.
Ive had opponents do 180 on turn 1, How can this be countered?
180 HP ex w/ Hard Charm.
Black Kyurem with Crystal Wall.
Fighting Pokemon w/ Focus Sash.
Play more then one basic Pokemon and accept the fact that your opponent gets a free prize.
fyi- You put this thread in the wrong part of the forums. Think you were aiming for Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion
Lysandre's Trump Card
target whistle, flashfire duskull, seismitoad item lock, lysandre's trump card, spread/bench damage, those are the main things i can think of
Or try to beat them down before they set up. They need a pretty good start to do that much damage straight off, it usually takes a couple of turns. If you can get an early lead, especially with non-EX attackers, you should be in pretty good shape.
Put this on the list of things for which there is no good counter:
A turn 2 Blastoise
A Turn 1 Plasma Gale
A Turn 1 Night Spear
Fortunately these things are not common, for any build of these decks
I do have to say I dont like the trend of over dominate strategies Pokemon haves been putting into the game. Like I said before, Lysandre's Trump Card is a counter but its not good enough. While playing the decks I do, I dont have room to add them them in and using a supporter for the turn to give a opponent back resources is also bad idea when they can play their cards again.
I think the game needs hard counters for things like trainer,ability lock and other things of the like. While I dont think Night March will be a thing in tournament play but in the even it is, there should be options to deal with it. Something that prevents "#"x damage from doing anything at all. Like a Pokemon with a ability or stadium that says " Any attacks that deal 10x or more damage deal 0x instead. It provides counters for things like night march, Rayquaza EX and Mewtwo EX. Would be a nice addition to the game while not making things useless. It just provides a way to deal with this over dominate strats.
I don't agree with 0x, but perhaps a stadium capping the damage that these attacks can achieve at, say, 120? It still has a big effect on the low hp ex pokemon like Jirachi and puts you at 2 hit range for everything including the coming mega-aggron without letting it ohko big ex pokes in one turn, and fitting all the common multiples bar perhaps the occasional 50x? Not that i like these huge turn one hits for 100+ anyway since I like my stage two decks, but considering the Virigen/yveltal/etc meta, it might be just what it needs.
And yeah, these trainer/ability lock decks are a bit silly sometimes, perhaps we should get slightly weaker versions of popular items that aren't affected by things like seismitoad?
The reason I say 0x is because these attacks are powerful. Not only just night march, but attacks like Dragon Burst, Evil Ball and X Ball are not only very hard to stop but hard to deal with. A hard counter forces them to do something else. Its tricky with Evil ball because its 20+ but maybe a effect that prevents attacks from doing more than its printed damage.
If you're going to limit the damage done by attacks, why only limit the variable damage attacks? Why not just say all attacks can do a maximum of, say, 120 damage?
Because it targets too many cards. Its part of the reason I dont like ability lock and trainer lock, because its too effective. Rather, its better to target certain cards.
But you're mis-targetting the problem. The problem is being able to do too much damage too early or for too little cost. Attaining that damage through a multiplier is not a part of the problem, such an attack would be equally devastating if it was simply 200 damage straight up printed on the card. Your idea would block a turn 1 Night March, but not e.g. a turn 2 Blastoise/Black Kyurem.
That's actually a very fair point, but then you hold back all the high damage pokemon that require a while to set up aswell, or those that achieve high damage for a relatively low cost but only under specific circumstances. Then again if you are using a pokemon that does the latter you usually set up those conditions yourself.
This is very specific now, but how about limiting damage to a multiple of the energy cost? i'm not sure what an appropriate multiple would be for that. Blastoise/Kyurem could still be a concern too since it's a 4 energy attack.
I've convinced myself that's a bad idea. I'm inclined to agree with Tutti now, we are going after the problem the wrong way, a generic limit would be a better idea.
I agree its hard to fix but we should try to fix what Black and white turned the game into. I still like the idea of a ban list since its the easiest fix but look at the new m Aggron EX card, a simple effect of "attacks can not deal extra damage" would prevent it from auto knock 75% of the time. It would deal 120 damage, Yveltal EX would deal 20, Mewtwo EX would do 0. While they still have other attacks, they can't get OHKOs. This also kills night march and forces the player to do something else. Black Kyurem and cards of the like are always a problem and needs to be dealt with in a different way. There should be less ways to get kills in one hit. They do have a place in the game but they are way to easy to get and ruin fun and creativity.
My game strategy is to "win the war, not necessarily a 'single' battle (i.e., like a T1 Poke KO)." Not much can be done if the NM opponent can KO my starting Poke on his/her first turn. HOWEVER, I tend to win the "war" with my Pyroar, Seismitoad, and decks that can snipe the NM opponents' benched Poke. Running an LTC helps too.
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