Bleach manga/anime discussuion (MAJOR SPOILERS)

[DarkJake]

An Arrancar's Zanpakuto isn't parallel to a Shinigami's, so it wouldn't necessarily have a 'soul'. Also, alot of Hollows can use Cero, even locked Gillian (those that can never and will never evolve). Gillian also include sentient ones, Arrancar #11 and probably down are all Gillian, the only Adjuchas are Espada and former-Espada. Aaroniero's case is different because due to his ability he was unable to evolve, since the essence didn't transfer into his tab of evolution but rather directly into his power...it's assumed that his inability to evolve hindered him to an extent, but him having like 30k+ hollow powers more than made up for it. It's also believed Espada #4 and up are Vasto-Lorde.

 

[Charizardian]

I don't think Adjuchas are rare enough for Aizen to have only FIVE of them. There are probably some more than what we've seen.

And, now that you mention Espada #4 and above...does anyone else but me think Ulquiorra will somehow become good and help save Orihime? I don't know, that might just come from reading a bit too much Ulqui/Hime fics...I also think Grimmjow's a lock to become good, because if he were bad he would have to be killed, which would've happened when Nnoitra attempted to kill him.

 

[bullados]

You guys are aware his name is Aaroniero, not Glutoneria

Yeah, I couldn't remember his name, but I could remember his Zanpaktou's name.

About that picture. We probably haven't seen her yet. Shinji was only introduced recently, even in passing. Also, notice that there are two people who are blocked almost completely. One of them (behind Rukia) looks like one of Inoue's friends, the conservative brown-haired girl. The person who is blocked by Ichigo's shoulder, who is that person? I know all the others, if not by name then by face.

Are we certain that Adjuchas are ONLY Espada and former Espada? I could've sworn that at least one of the guys who invaded the real world was Adjuchas class. Possibly the Espada's brother?

 

[Charizardian]

I think the black hair is either Isshin, because I find the hairstyles similar, or Ulquiorra, and therefore you'd have to hide his face completely in order to keep it a surprise that he'd turn good or something.

The one behind Rukia, I just think is another picture of Orihime, and her hair is hiding the Shun Shun Rikka.

 

[Regis_Neo]

Adjuchas I think are probably somewhat rare, especially when compared to the plentiful gillian out there. Remember, only certain gillian are able to evolve into adjuchas, not every one of them can. And of course, Vasto lorde remain to be seen except for the silllouette...

Regarding Ulquiorra, I still doubt he's a vasto lorde. Yes, he does look increadibly like one with the remains of his mask, but it is possible that's just a coincidence. Nel tu I also doubt is vasto lorde (rememeber, she was the former 3rd Espalda), mainly because her released form wasn't humanoid in appearance, which is supposed to be a characteristic of vasto-lorde hollows. And I doubt Ulquiorra, as the #4 Espalda, would have been of a higher class, and yet ranked under her.

As for Stark, Halibel, and the unamed one, who knows. Remember, Tosen stated that Aizen with 10 vasto lorde class arrancars would be able to bring down Soul Society (which is impressive considering the strength of some of the captains), so I think that vasto lorde at least approach Aizen in power, hence the lack of any revealed so far to being arrancar.

Just for a change of pace, how about the vizard? I think they're definately not explored as much, but by Aizen's thought, the only way for a maxed-out captain to increase his power is to obtain hollow powers, sort of like the vizard and Ichigo. So why is he wasting time creating arrancar instead of trying to obtain the same powers like the vizard?

 

[ShadowTogetic]

As for Stark, Halibel, and the unamed one, who knows. Remember, Tosen stated that Aizen with 10 vasto lorde class arrancars would be able to bring down Soul Society (which is impressive considering the strength of some of the captains), so I think that vasto lorde at least approach Aizen in power, hence the lack of any revealed so far to being arrancar.

The tenth captain said it, not the blind guy.

And it's spelt Espada

 

[DarkJake]

Adjuchas I think are probably somewhat rare, especially when compared to the plentiful gillian out there. Remember, only certain gillian are able to evolve into adjuchas, not every one of them can. And of course, Vasto lorde remain to be seen except for the silllouette...

Regarding Ulquiorra, I still doubt he's a vasto lorde. Yes, he does look increadibly like one with the remains of his mask, but it is possible that's just a coincidence. Nel tu I also doubt is vasto lorde (rememeber, she was the former 3rd Espalda), mainly because her released form wasn't humanoid in appearance, which is supposed to be a characteristic of vasto-lorde hollows. And I doubt Ulquiorra, as the #4 Espalda, would have been of a higher class, and yet ranked under her.

As for Stark, Halibel, and the unamed one, who knows. Remember, Tosen stated that Aizen with 10 vasto lorde class arrancars would be able to bring down Soul Society (which is impressive considering the strength of some of the captains), so I think that vasto lorde at least approach Aizen in power, hence the lack of any revealed so far to being arrancar.

Just for a change of pace, how about the vizard? I think they're definately not explored as much, but by Aizen's thought, the only way for a maxed-out captain to increase his power is to obtain hollow powers, sort of like the vizard and Ichigo. So why is he wasting time creating arrancar instead of trying to obtain the same powers like the vizard?

Being a former #3 doesn't mean anything. Recall that in that time Noitora was #8 and Soyzal was #10, so in ratio a #3 back then probably isn't nearly as strong as a #4 is right now.

 

[ShadowTogetic]

I thought Nnoitra said Szayel wasn't even an Espada during that time period.

 

[DarkJake]

I thought Nnoitra said Szayel wasn't even an Espada during that time period.

That only proves my point further, but whatever...

 

[r e i n]

Adjuchas I think are probably somewhat rare, especially when compared to the plentiful gillian out there. Remember, only certain gillian are able to evolve into adjuchas, not every one of them can. And of course, Vasto lorde remain to be seen except for the silllouette...

What? These aren't pokemon we're talking about. Hollows don't evolve, period. Gillian=Menos Grande, and other minor hollows such as Aeroniero, etc. They stay that way, period. Adjuchas are uncommon and are probably Espada 10, 8-5?? They are the in betweens. Vasto Lorde are most likely Espada 1-4 and are rare, though we do know they exist. A hollow is created as one of the three, and forever they'll stay that way. When they transcend to Arrancar they maintain this label, and their power is determined by it.

The manga to this point is pretty random and lame. There isn't enough plot to go off of. It's just fight fight fight. I'm disappointed by Zommari Le Roux's bad showing. He lived for like 5 minutes then got owned by Byakuya. Nnoitra however could overcome Zaraki if we're lucky. So here's what's left: Espada 1, 2 and 3. Every Espada has been revealed with number except them. Zommari died before his number was revealed though, but it's pretty lame to say he'd be in the Top 3.

Casualties: Szayel died via Mayuri, Zommari died via Bakuya, Aeroniero died via Rukia.

I'm dying of laughter on how these Espada were supposed to be sooo strong, and yet half of them are gonna kick the bucket before the Winter War Arc begins, not to mention if any other Espada jump in. *prays to manga gods* Make Bleach better!!

 

[ShadowTogetic]

Um...Zomari's the seventh Espada. Halibel, Stark, and the Old man are in the top 3. Zomari even says he's the seventh Espada

 

[Regis_Neo]

The tenth captain said it, not the blind guy.

And it's spelt Espada

Yeah, my mistake there, I was thinking of the wrong guy. Both the names look similar (Tosen, Toshiro), hence why I mixed them up.

Being a former #3 doesn't mean anything. Recall that in that time Noitora was #8 and Soyzal was #10, so in ratio a #3 back then probably isn't nearly as strong as a #4 is right now.

Not necessarily, especially if you recall the cricumstances in which Nel tu was defeated by them; a sneak attack by 2 other Espada stands a good chance of succeeding. Recall also that Nel tu can defeat Nnoitra easily 1vs1. Rank probably does matter, and unless it is true that rank 4 and up Espada are indeed now transformed vasto lorde, Nel tu is still probably stronger than Ulquiorra in her adult state. I never said I was absolutely right, but until it's proven that *possibly* Ulquiorra and any others ranked 1-3 are vasto lorde, nothing is for sure.

What? These aren't pokemon we're talking about. Hollows don't evolve, period. Gillian=Menos Grande, and other minor hollows such as Aeroniero, etc. They stay that way, period. Adjuchas are uncommon and are probably Espada 10, 8-5?? They are the in betweens. Vasto Lorde are most likely Espada 1-4 and are rare, though we do know they exist. A hollow is created as one of the three, and forever they'll stay that way. When they transcend to Arrancar they maintain this label, and their power is determined by it.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about:

Menos are created when the void within an ordinary hollow's heart becomes so substantial that human souls are incapable of sustaining it, at which point it begins devouring fellow hollows. These cannibal hollows are attracted to one another, and a mass inter-devouring follows, resulting in a gillian. Following this transformation, the gillian can evolve twice more, first into an adjuchas and finally into a vasto lorde, provided certain conditions are met. Menos evolution is not only contingent upon the menos eating other hollows, but also upon the menos' ability to avoid being eaten. If another hollow succeeds in devouring a part of their body, evolution becomes impossible.

So yes, they do evolve. Not like Pokemon, but they do evolve.

The manga to this point is pretty random and lame. There isn't enough plot to go off of. It's just fight fight fight. I'm disappointed by Zommari Le Roux's bad showing. He lived for like 5 minutes then got owned by Byakuya. Nnoitra however could overcome Zaraki if we're lucky. So here's what's left: Espada 1, 2 and 3. Every Espada has been revealed with number except them. Zommari died before his number was revealed though, but it's pretty lame to say he'd be in the Top 3.

Casualties: Szayel died via Mayuri, Zommari died via Bakuya, Aeroniero died via Rukia.

I'm dying of laughter on how these Espada were supposed to be sooo strong, and yet half of them are gonna kick the bucket before the Winter War Arc begins, not to mention if any other Espada jump in. *prays to manga gods* Make Bleach better!!

You know, Espada are supposed to be powerful, but they were never made out to be "that" strong; comparrison-wise, they are about as powerful as captain-level shingami. So it makes sense that Byakuya and Mayuri can defeat their respective opponents. Rukia, maybe that's pushing it a bit, but Aaroniero is only the 9th Espada, making him one of the weaker ones in theory anyways.

 

[bullados]

Also, Aaroneiro was promoted to Espada level not necessarily because of his current strength, but more likely because of the strength that he could have. Also notice that Yami was quite easily beaten by Ichigo's Bankai, as well as Urahara's Shikai. I haven't seen Espada #8 yet. But, assuming that he's exponentially weaker than Grimjow (#6), who was easily beaten by both Ichigo Hollow and Shinji Hollow, Aaroneiro probably isn't all that strong comparatively.

I'm still waiting to see the Captains intervene in the anime, so plz don't spoil that particular fun for me yet!

 

[Charizardian]

Syzael is the 8th espada. The dude with the pink hair and glasses.

 

[Sandslash7]

Yeah, we have seen #8, Syzael.

So, basically we've got left:
10= Yammy (pie for any Shinigami in Hueco Mundo)
9= Kaien/ Areoniero (sp?) [deceased]
8= Syzael [Eternal Pain/Deceased/ Out of action]
7= Zommari [Deceased]
6= Grimmjow Jaggerjaques [Wounded]
5= Nnoitra [In Combat]
4= Uluqiora (sp?) [whereabouts unknown]
3,2,1 = {Halibel, old dude, Lazy bum} Whereabouts unknown.

What? These aren't pokemon we're talking about. Hollows don't evolve, period. Gillian=Menos Grande, and other minor hollows such as Aeroniero, etc. They stay that way, period. Adjuchas are uncommon and are probably Espada 10, 8-5?? They are the in betweens. Vasto Lorde are most likely Espada 1-4 and are rare, though we do know they exist. A hollow is created as one of the three, and forever they'll stay that way. When they transcend to Arrancar they maintain this label, and their power is determined by it.

Have you read any of the manga?

It clearly says that Hollows can evolve. Grimmjow even went on a quest with other Adjucas-level Menos to evolve into Vasto-lorde Menos, be eventually they gave up, as the couldn't progress through the final stage. (But, they clearly evolved through Normal hollows and Gillian.) Note that Kubo Tite showed Arrancar #11 as a Gillian, when he demonstrated the life cycle of Hollows. (Gillian are actually an evolution of normal hollows. they are hollows who desired the soul of other hollows, instead of humans, and thus became a conglomerate of hollows.)

Also: All hollows start as normal hollows, they don't immediatly start as Adjucas/Gillian/Vasto-lorde. Those are Menos Grande, an entirely different class of Hollow.

Life Cycle of Hollows: (annotated edition)

Human Soul -> Hollow -> Menos <-> Diversified Menos(w/personality) <-> Adjucas Menos ?*-> Vasto-lorde

*It is unkown whether a Vasto-lorde Menos Grande can revert back to a Gillian if it fails to consume more equal-level Hollow

 

[ShadowTogetic]

Actually, Szayel's in eternal pain from the drugs and the sword in him. Kubo didn't say anything about his death (unless I missed that part)

Spelling:
Aaroniero, Ulquiorra

And for some reason, Ulquiorra's still trapped in that negacion box Grimmjow put him in.

I predict Stark to be 1, Halibel 2, and old man 3

 

[DarkJake]

Szayel did die, because when he got stabbed that pain was also multiplied by over 9,000 and you could see him turn into dust.

 

[ShadowTogetic]

gotcha

 

[Regis_Neo]

I personally wonder when Aizen and Co. are finally going to fight again, should be interesting to see if they've gotten any stronger or have finally obtained hollow powers themselves. I mean, Tosen was defeated by Kenpachi, Gin and Hitsuga are about evenly matched from what we saw in their brief battle, and of course, Aizen completely owned Hitsuga, Ichigo, and Renji without even using a release. Not to mention that Gin and Aizen's Bankai have yet to be revealed as well.

And of course, still wanting to see what the vizard are up to as well. Most of them can fight evenly with Ichigo in hollow form, and Shinji was kicking Grimmjow until Ulquiorra arrived and stopped the fight. And as implied by Aizen, a shingami with hollow powers represents a greater power than either hollow or shingami alone.

 

[bullados]

I think what Aizen actually said was that a being that could draw power from both Hueco Mundo and Soul Society would be stronger than a being that could only draw from one of these planes. The question then arises: What happens if a being could draw power from Hueco Mundo, Soul Society, and the Human plane?