Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Counterproposal: Errata Blaziken ex

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Bah, I didn't mean Blastoise ex! It has a chance against Blaziken ex, but it won't win 100% of the time in the LEAST. I'm fascinated, and interested if we're REALLY on the same track, or if we're both making two lethal, separate attacks on this $30 casanova! I've been playtesting, and my deck has won CONSISTENTLY against the big, bad guy, no matter if it's paired with Ninetails or Rayquaza, and the troubles it suffers against Magcargo ex are only minimal...like many people played that guy to begin with X_X

However, these three, maybe four ideas (BaD MoM, Walreign, my mystery idea, and your mystery idea) are more than enough to end BEX's rule, like how Blaziken variants ended Gardevoir's. Blastoise/Milotic/Walrein is going to be the combo to beat, but while waiting for EX5 or EX6, let's just play these ideas, eh? ;)
 
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PokePop said:
Blaziken ex was released in the Dragon set in Japan. You can see the vestiges of that by noticing that Dragon has the Basics and Stage 1s of many of the TMvTA EXs.

(Judging from Nick15's spoilers) Blaziken EX was released in TMvTA in Japan together with the basic and stage1 that we got in the Dragon set (I don't know why they moved those cards to Dragon). The Japanese had more or less the same card pool (excluding promos) at the time of release.
 
mozartrules said:
(Judging from Nick15's spoilers) (I don't know why they moved those cards to Dragon).

Simple: Those cards were too powerful in limited, and could therefore be unstoppable...even moreso than the dragon or sandstorm ex's that they had to do this, or the possibilities for sealed would be crushed by these things. Swampert's only weaknesses are the (former) promo Bulbasaur and Cacturne, Sceptile absolutely DEVASTATES a LOT of the cards in the set, since they're weak to grass, and Blaziken ex is pure board control. No way in god's holy name are they letting a perfectly good set get ruined like that.

*We now return you to your regularly-scheduled discussion!*
 
I'm sure that I have some sort of counters for BlaziEX thought out, but I think I will do some testing before saying anything further. I also want to feel the power of BlaziEX myself, so before testing counters, I wish to test the "real deal".
 
Oh yeah, it's counterable. I still say it should be banned. I've even found the counter, and it'll be published in Scrye in issue #72, BUT... I still think it's too influential on the format. Let's put it this way: Slowking is counterable (Muk). Sneasel is counterable (ER/SER, or in old modified, even tyrogue could kill it in two hits)... and is Blaziken ex. But do we really want the ENTIRE format based on countering it?

Also, expect 60-70% of all decks to consist of Blaziken come States. I expect that to fall to around 40% (due to all the water counters that will come) come Gym Challenges/Stadium Challenges.
 
Rand0m, if every deck is focused on either uniting with or against the Blaziken ex, then whatever side wins will fight amongst itself. Think of it as a war (ROFL, I see it now..."War of General RAMBO" XD): When the common enemy is defeated, then the good guys will bicker and mumble over who controls the world.

Besides, if only about one or two of the counters are unable to beat out the beast, then expect all the different types of variants to do what they do best: Burst, burn, and bash! :D
 
AWWW Now I have to purchase Scrye AGAIN for a new promo!

What?

You think I was purchasing the magazine for it's writing staff (*cough Rand0m *cough*)? :p
-Phil
 
A lot of things worry me on the thread. Guess I'll start with what I find most problematic: people can't diagnose the real problem. Before Team Magma Vs. Team Aqua, BAR decks were already running rampant, and I never really understood why people thought Blex was going to "break them", cause guess what? They already were broken! While not guaranteed, it is my understanding that a good BAR player with a good BAR deck will reliably set up by turn 3. So, that gave you 3 turns (if you went first) to ready a counter powerful enough to stop that deck entirely. Countering it was hard work-taking out one Ray ex would net you two prizes... and chances are, that merely would catch you up until the next Ray ex KO'd your counter. Now, Ray isn't the problem either, as a player can use Expedition Nintales for almost as good a deck (some might argue better). Now, what happened was we had 3 average to good things-2 powers and an attack (varying according to your main hitter of choice) that could be abused as a combo. Normally, this isn't a problem, since all a deck really should be is a series of good combos that feed off eachother. What went wrong here is that this one combo of the Energy Recursion/Transferral to make a heavy discard attacker reload each turn. This same broken combo gets a boost from Blex, but not too significant. WHo cares that it hit the bench-a strong counter against Ray usually took multiple turns to build, so as I already stated, you would be playing catch up for prizes. And hey, SS Ffet does double damage to Blex and is immune to its attack.

OKay, for a "Quick Reply", this has gone on to long, so I am going to cut straight to the point-The combination of Firestarter and a card capable of moving Energies from a benched Pokemon (even if it is restricted) to the active, is what breaks many of the "discard-fire-for-big-damage". I think the best idea is to rotate out the last three WotC sets, and errata Team Aqua's Manectric and Team Magma's Claydol so that they can only attach Energy to Pokemon of their Team. Guess what that does? Blaziken still remains a focus for many Fire Decks... but the decks require more finesse to run and are not so insanely hard to beat. Then, we might see some better balance.

As for people having decks that waste the Firestarter variants, I'll believe them when I see them. Hiding a deck tells me one of three things:

1. it's a one shot deck, so once it's known, it's countered.

or

2. It is a good deck, but once it's known, there will be some common tech that makes it so that it can only beat Firestarter variants.

or

3. You have found a great deck that can help the game out... but won't share it just so you can steal a victory. Afterall, it should be the player and not the deck that is responsible for the win. Luck will always play a factor, but this? This does not set right with me.

Of course may not count for anyone on this thread... no offense, but I am a bit tired, and maybe I misread your posts, but do your decks handles anything other than the Firestarter variants? Afterall, if a deck can only be beaten by its counter deck, then it still seems to strong... and hey, if the counter deck is horrid against everything else, then no one will play it.
 
Well, I have no idea what Mr. Schweppe's been pulling, but Alakazam is no big secret. As long as you have Rainbow and DRE in the deck, it is THE tech to beat all tech, and it has been ever since Ne-on. I was able to beat Magcargo AND Kingdra by either Syncroblasting the former, or Genetic memory to deal a solid 50 to the active, or for a full recovery! A 10- person also won with it just recently at a City Championship! It isn't nearly the big secret we've been pretending it to be.

My specific variation, using Delcatty and Magneton, can't be easily countered by Wobbuffet, and does a nice job of killing off G/ex decks. Also, with enough abras out and Alakazams and Candies (NOT hard with Energy Draw and Oracles as support). Syncroblast with an energy and DRE will OHKO the Blaziken ex, or Dragon Burst with a single DRE will OHKO the Bex. Rayquaza is OHKO'd when you have a Rainbow and DRE attached to another Alakazam. Finally, to handle REGULAR blaziken, just send out Magneton, and you've got yourself a win.

*sigh* To be honest, I'm not keeping a big secret like pwnda or random...I'm just damn-lazy, but I'll post my decklist for you all to mock n' gawk ;)

~Patriarch
 
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Just posted. Say what you will, but it's just what I run, and it HAS been doing well, losing a few times, granted, but it's certainly putting up a good fight. It's closer and closer to the perfect anti-everything deck! As long as people don't want it to live on, then it won't! ;)

Hint: I am MAD (Magneton/Alakazam/Delcatty) about Blaziken ex! :D
 
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I ahve seen the deck now. It could work, but even if it does, it falls prey to a lot of other decks. Considering I used to run something similar in neon, as did Baboon (who also tried it in the current format), I know that my Gojira decks can probably beat it. Note, I said probably, and certain ones will probably fall to it quite easily, but perhaps my best Gojira candidate, SS Steelix, looks to be able to hold its own against it. For those not familiar with the decks I speak of, GOjira decks tend to ahve something big up front that hits the bench, and then massive healing (almost always in the form of a bench full of SS Xatu) to keep the main hitter going. Steelix looks to be a stumbling block for the Expedition Alakazam, becuase the main methods of speeding it up (DRE) drops damage by 10, so Steelix's main reason for being used, SPinning Tail, is halved in effectiveness by one DRE, and completely negated by two. Synchroblast will not OHKO an unijured Steelix, and with Metal and Xatu, the only reason most of the damage wouldn't be soaked would be if I wanted to finish on Zammer with Rage. Now, this [Gojira] is a good deck, but a deck that is hopless against BAR and company.
 
Yup. OHKO'ing is the one thing in this format that makes such an impact. That's why, if I were playing against Gojira, I'd focus on not getting out a fast-fast alakazam, so much as a fast AND well-built one. A couple rainbow and two regular energy on Alakazam for spinning tail. Now, if the Gojira player has metal attached to it, I don't have to worry about a surprise rage. If it does, then there's just not enough energy for it to live VS Wailord (the current one runs it as added tech), even with Xatu aid. With enough of these exchanges, the Xatus can be killed off...all four of them, to boot! Even if they try some sneaky xatu to xatu thing just to save the birds, I can just stick to my guns, and they'll slow down further and further.
 
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More and more, I'm finding a ban on Blaziken ex unnecessary. It's beatable. The thing is, it's like every other format we've had, where the counterdeck will become the deck to counter, which means that Blaziken ex could rule in the long run, if you catch my drift.

Let Blaze = A
Let Swampert = B
Let unknown anti-swampert = C

B > A
C > B
A surprises all the C players countering B by showing up and dominating the C's.

Ok I've rambled enough. Maybe it does need banning. But it's not unbeatable, Swampert/Suicune ex beats it 80% of the time.
 
I would still rather see a more varied format then that. Many decks had a chance against normal BAR with Ditto or Shard but very few (if any) can beat blaziken ex.
 
Patriarch: We can finish the discussion through PMs, so I don't derail the thread-as stated, I have experience with Exp Alakazam decks from both sides, and it didnt stack up well at all. Still, I am not perfect, nor arrogant enough to declare a that the Steelix version of Gojira would always triumph, and admit that I could be wrong about it beating your deck. As stated, we can continue it through PMs (playing you is out for a while-the rush to finals is already starting. @_@).

Random, you realize that Rayquaza ex eats Suicune ex, right? So in a match up, Suicune ex/Swampert does good to match it, and once Crystal Shard goes...

Keep in mind, as stated, Blex (you know, like bleech, an expression of disgust) is not broken: it just happens to help an already broken deck combo. Its not the problem, so it should be left alone. I still say rotating sets and an errata for Team Aqau's Manectric (Team Magma's Claydol is a one-per turn deal, and thus I think we could handle it, though I could be wrong) so that it could only pass on certain Energiers or only pass to other Team Aqua Pokemon are the answer.
 
Furret sat at the beach with the waves rolling up all around,
digging in the warm sand.
Vaporeon trots up dripping wet.
Vaporeon "Wonderful Fall weather, isn't it?"
Furret looks up with sand all over its nose and nods.
Vaporeon "Funny, its March, but in Florida, it's still Fall."
Furret continues digging.

Jolteon trots up and tags Vaporeon.
Vaporeon chases Jolteon down the beach in a merry game of tag.
Furret glances around looking for Flareon.
Furret shrugs and continues digging.

Elsewhere, much later...

Flareon is looking thru the new card sets in Doug's collection.
Jolteon trots up.
Jolteon "Are there any Eeveelution EX types out yet?"
Flareon shakes its head mournfully.
Jolteon "What's wrong?"
Flareon "I feel kinda puny compared to Blaziken Ex and Blaziken."
Jolteon "It's just a stupid chicken, why would that get you depressed?"
Flareon "Look at this!"
Jolteon "Yikes!"
Flareon "My flame must be burning out."
Jolteon "Let's compare it to the other cards."
Flareon "Hmm..."
Jolteon turns pages...
Flareon "Most of other cards look fairly balanced."
Jolteon "This must be a double fluke."
Flareon "Where is Vaporeon?"
Jolteon "Dancing in the sprinkler."
Flareon shudders "Doesn't Vaporeon ever get tired of water?"
Jolteon "Come on, let's go show Vaporeon this."

Jolteon and Flareon walk out the back door and find
Furret dragging a large box into the back yard.
Jolteon "Hi! What's up?"
Furret looks up and waves.
The box rolls over and flips upside down covering Furret.
Flareon snickers as muffled shouts and thumping are heard
from within the box.
Jolteon uses Headbutt to roll the box over.
Furret goes flying thru the air.
Flareon "This looks like a familiar scene...."
Furret lands in a bush.
Furret sighs.
Jolteon drags the box to the middle of the back yard.
Flareon peers inside the box and finds it empty.
Vaporeon races up and shakes water over everybody.
Flareon cringes.

Vaporeon "What's up?"
Jolteon looks inside the box.
Furret brushes some leaves off and scampers over to stand beside the box.
Furret proudly announces "This is The Box."
Jolteon nods
Flareon rolls its eyes.
Vaporeon shakes water over everybody again.
Flareon "Stop that!"
Furret looks proudly at "The Box."
Jolteon "And...?"
Vaporeon "Maybe, we could set the sprinkler on top of it.
Get some altitude for better trajectory..."
Furret stomps its foot.
Furret "No, no, this is The Box."
Jolteon "Perhaps, we could rewind the story a little bit?"
Flareon "Where did you get It from?"

Furret "Well, I was making some new fake cards, trying out new ideas,
and Umbreon started looking at them. Them Umbreon suggested I go
find Nick15 for some tips on creating cards."
Vaporeon, listening now, nods.
Furret continues "So I went to find Nick15, but I think he lives on the
other side of the US, which is a rather long walk. I walked for quite
awhile and ran into Phil in Central Florida." By then, my feet hurt,
so I sat down to rest. Anyway, Phil and I talked, and he said to
think outside of The Box."
Jolteon looks at Flareon
Flareon whispers "DMTM used to say that too."
Furret continues "So, I used Rest and then went looking for The Box.
The Grocery Store had several, so I had to make sure that I got the
right one."

Furret sits down beside The Box.
Furret begins thinking.
Furret pauses.
Furret "As you can see, I am thinking outside of The Box."

Flareon sits down and looks at The Box.
Jolteon "What fake cards have you made so far?"
Furret dashes off gleefully.
Vaporeon looks longingly at the front yard where the sprinkler is located.
Flareon closes its eyes to think.
Furret trots back with some notes and pictures.
Flareon, Jolteon, and Vaporeon gather around:

---------
Golem Stage 2 Fighting Pokemon 100 HP
PokePower Landslide
Once during your turn (before you attack), you may attach a Fighting
energy from your discard pile to 1 of your Benched Pokemon.

Directed Earthquake FCC 50
Discard a Fighting Energy card attached to Golem. If you do,
This attack does 10 damage to each of your Opponent's
Benched Pokemon. Don't Apply Weakness and resistance
for Benched Pokemon.

Weakness Grass --- Retreat Cost CC
-----------

Ampharos Stage 2 Electric Pokemon 100 HP
PokePower Electric Plant
Once during your turn (before you attack), you may attach a Lighting
energy from your discard pile to 1 of your Benched Pokemon.

Megaspark LCC 50
Discard a Lighting Energy card attached to Ampharos. If you do,
This attack does 10 damage to each of your Opponent's
Benched Pokemon. Don't Apply Weakness and resistance
for Benched Pokemon.

Weakness Fighting ---- Retreat Cost CC
----------

Gengar Stage 2 Psychic Pokemon 100 HP
PokePower Mysterious Power
Once during your turn (before you attack), you may attach a Psychic
energy from your discard pile to 1 of your Benched Pokemon.

Shadow Thrust PCC 50
Discard a Psychic Energy card attached to Gengar. If you do,
This attack does 10 damage to each of your Opponent's
Benched Pokemon. Don't Apply Weakness and resistance
for Benched Pokemon.

Weakness Darkness ---- Retreat Cost CC
----------

Ludicolo Stage 2 Water Pokemon 100 HP
PokePower Desert Spring
Once during your turn (before you attack), you may attach a Water
energy from your discard pile to 1 of your Benched Pokemon.

Floodwaters WCC 50
Discard a Water Energy card attached to Ludicolo. If you do,
This attack does 10 damage to each of your Opponent's
Benched Pokemon. Don't Apply Weakness and resistance
for Benched Pokemon.

Weakness Lightning ---- Retreat Cost CC
-----------

Shiftry Stage 2 Darkness/Grass Pokemon 100 HP
PokePower Moonlight Growth
Once during your turn (before you attack), you may attach a Grass
energy from your discard pile to 1 of your Benched Pokemon.

Swarming Razor Leaf GCC 50
Discard a Grass Energy card attached to Shiftry. If you do,
This attack does 10 damage to each of your Opponent's
Benched Pokemon. Don't Apply Weakness and resistance
for Benched Pokemon.

Weakness Fighting ---- Retreat Cost CC
-------------

Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Flareon look at each other.
Flareon shrugs, Jolteon nods.
Vaporeon "Furret, don't these cards look a tiny bit similar to you?"
Furret "Nonsense!
This one has a Dark outline of Shiftry with a moon behind.
This one has Ludicolo surrounded by cactus in full bloom.
This one has Gengar facing left towards a light but surrounded by darkness.
This one has Golem facing right flexing its muscles like a body builder.
And this one is Ampharos standing next to a generator."

Jolteon sits down and starts thinking "It would make the playing field more equal."
Flareon looks at the cards some more "Let's make some more Fake Cards."
Vaporeon sits down beside Jolteon and looks at The Box.

Jolteon "I've got an idea.
Jolteon writes it down. How about this:
Super Broken Trainer Card
When you play this card from your hand, remove all Fire Energy cards
from your Opponent's Deck and Discard Pile and place them aside.
They are no longer in play and cannot be used the rest of this game."
Flareon shoots fire at the paper and tosses it into The Box.
Furret stomps its foot "That is not a trash can!"

Flareon sits down to think.
Flareon writes down this:
Welded Iron Lid
Stadium Card
Cards in the discard pile cannot be removed from the discard pile.
If a calculation asks for a count of the cards in the discard pile,
return that count as zero.

Jolteon tries again.
The Box
Stadium Card
As long as this Stadium card is in play, cards that have Blaziken in their
name cannot attack or use their Pokemon Powers

Flareon "That's better than your other one."
Furret sits down to think.
Furret writes down:
Snorlax EX Colorless Basic Pokemon 120 HP
Pokemon Body Hide Behind
Benched Pokemon other than this Snorlax EX cannot be hurt
while Snorlax EX is in Play.
Collapse C 20 Snorlax is now Asleep
Rage RLB 10 Damage plus 10 more damage for each damage counter on
Snorlax EX
Weakness Fighting Retreat Cost CCCC

Vaporeon "That's pretty good, but I like this better:
Articuno EX Water Basic Pokemon 110 HP
Pokemon Power Blizzard Shield
While Articuno is in Play, Fire attacks cannot hurt benched Pokemon.
Fire damage done to Articuno is reduced by 30.
Cold Sleep W 10 The Defending Pokemon is now asleep.
Icy Wind WWC 50 Remove 1 damage counter from Articuno.
Don't apply resistance to this attack.

Umbreon walks up carrying 2 chickens, one bigger than the other.
Umbreon "Sounds great everybody, now you are thinking!"
Umbreon tosses both chickens into The Box and starts taping The Box shut.
Furret "Hey!"
Umbreon continues to seal The Box up.

Furret sits down and thinks.
Furret "What about this:
Mirror Wall
Stadium Card
Anytime your Opponent's attack would hurt any of your Benched Pokemon
it does nothing to your bench, instead all of that bench damage hits your
opponent's benched Pokemon. Your opponent chooses which cards are
damaged if given a choice."

Umbreon finishes sealing The Box up
and writes "Return To Sender!" on it.
Furret smiles and goes into the house to fetch a lot of Postage stamps.

Jolteon, Flareon, and Vaporeon offer to take to the Post Office.
After all, they are a good example of the Delicate Balance between
Fire, Ice, and Lighting...
 
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Prof. Douglas Zuver makes an interesting point, as usual. And as usual, after taking time I didn't really have to read it twice, I still am not sure of his stance. Care to clarify? it looks like in the end you decide banning the two Blaziken is the solution. Is that what you are saying?
 
Doug returns home to find all his postage stamps gone!

Jolteon, Flareon, and Vaporeon are packing their bags to visit Japan.
To discuss the many different solutions to this matter.

Furret has gone to the Grocery Store in search of another perfect Box.
 
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