Day 2 of Worlds - Changing Decks

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by SteveP, Apr 26, 2004.

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  1. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Consider this.

    Let players change their decks for Day 2 of Worlds.

    Here's my reasoning:

    1. Meta-gaming is a scouting skill. Meta-gaming for Day 1 is a bit of a guessing game. Meta-gaming for Day 2 can only happen if players are allowed to change their decks.

    2. If Day 2 of Worlds is the Playoffs, and the rumor about best-of-3 for the Playoffs at Worlds is true (assuming the Swiss rounds will be 1-game matches), then players can change/enhance their decks to perform better for multi-game matches.

    Just an idea that I'm taking from how Lord of the Rings Premier events are run.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2004
  2. Alexia

    Alexia New Member

    That sounds like a good idea. Hopefully that will be taken into consideration.
  3. JediDrew

    JediDrew New Member

    Even better is change formats. I would love to do a draft at worlds. It would let players show their skills in something other than the normal MF. Magic does this at its worlds.
  4. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    Nope. Probably won't happen, and I frown upon it for this reason:

    Players should be skilled enough to play a deck and beat other decks with it no matter who their opponents are, what decks they face. Besides, we know what a lot of the decks played will be...Blaziken. Don't say, "Well I didn't know what the metagame would be!" Refer to Mudkip's thread in the SC section: "What won at your State Championship?" that's the metagame now. It'll change with the release of Broken Seal, but no so much...Blaziken still reigns...though Milotic is a great card and a possible BEX counter (OHKO Blaziken even with DRE).

    Someone will probably make a post like that for GC's and StadC's and that's what the metagame will be. Read those, find out, don't try to add new rules to the game. =/

  5. Freddy K.

    Freddy K. New Member


  6. Pablo

    Pablo New Member



  7. JediDrew

    JediDrew New Member

    Well world champion should be skilled at the game as a whole and not just one section of it. Worlds should test a player's ability at all aspects of the game and drafting is one of them even if you arent good at it.
  8. davechri

    davechri New Member

    I double dog dare somebody to take the cards I drafted at GENCON last year (in both team draft and the Fan Appreciation Tournament) and win with them.

    I wish I was good enough to get good random cards out of an unopened random pack.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2004
  9. Tank Engine

    Tank Engine New Member

    I agree with what Drew said above. And davechri, draft is a more skill intensive format than modified, as you have to know what is in the set, what is good, the odds of you drafting it. Also you have to be reading what your neighbor is taking and reading what colors are being passed to you and what aren't. You have to be careful to not send your other neighbor colors that you are drafting, as they might pick up on those colors or your evolution lines. The deck construction also takes skill such as knowing the correct amount of energy to play and the correct lines and which trainers might be worth it and which aren't. Also the playing of the matches is more skill intensive as you don't know what you are going to be facing and you may have to adjust your gameplan as a result of it. A draft is far from being completely luck based. As for the deck changing, (assuming that worlds is one big tourney) that is unrational. When have you ever gotton to change your deck halfway through a tourney before? If you knew what you t16 opponent was playing and they don't know what you are playing, they would be at an unfair advantage. And when was scouting ever an ethical part, or any part, of the actual playing of the trading card game?
  10. nikePK

    nikePK New Member

    dave, yeah, its gonna be pass draft or the draft where everyone sees what is on the table (i forget what that's called), so it won't just be like gencon where you got your packs and went from that...

    Though my packs/theme deck at the FAT (and the prereleases) always seem to be awesome, lol

    Either way, worlds will be a lot of fun, draft for t16 or whatever or not. I'm not sure I like being able to change decks for the 2nd day, but it seems as though that'd be really neat. You can tech your deck to hopefully get around your weaknesses... could make for some very interesting matches, indeed.
  11. SHPanda

    SHPanda New Member

    It's called Rodchester.

    How about constructed the first day and rodchester day 2. it shouldnt be that hard to do. and then to top 8 constructed with the same decks as day 1
  12. gohanposter

    gohanposter New Member

    i dont think you should be able to change your whole deck, but i would like it if you could change it a little, like if something doesnt really work out or you didnt really use it, you could take it out for something else....just my 2 cents.
  13. TrEkIeV

    TrEkIeV New Member

    you mean sideboard..?
  14. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Drafting doesn't work unless you do best-of-3 (too much luck involved in 1) drafting a cohesive deck, and 2) bad draw).

    Rochester Draft requires more skill than normal drafts, but more importantly, requires awareness of what other players are drafting.

    I think that drafting is TOO luck-based. Remember that at the last Professor Challenge they only did 3 rounds of draft and 5 rounds of constructed (they almost did 6 rounds of constructed, but were short on time) before cutting to the playoffs.

    It would be nice to have a multi-format World Championship, but I think the emphasis should STILL be on modified constructed format. Plus, since it's already been announced that the tournament will be modified constructed, I doubt they'll change it and add draft format.

    That being said, I think the only possibility is for POP to allow Day 2 players to change their decks.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2004
  15. mewsmom

    mewsmom New Member

    We didnt' go to 1st Worlds so not sure what rules were in effect then. So I'm assuming there will be no last minute tweaks of decks on day 2?? What exactly is day 2, I assume your referring to the invites only?
    Are you using your information from your previous Worlds experience or has all this been announced??

  16. DaytonGymLeader

    DaytonGymLeader New Member

    The Professor Championships did 3 rounds of Sealed - which is much different than draft - then did 5 rounds of constructed, then cut to a Rochester Draft.

    If we're going to crown a champion, we need to make sure they can beat people in any format, not playing the same old tired deck over and over.

    Personally, I'd like to see Day 1 be a Draft, then cut to the Top 32 players. Day 2 would be Constructed, then cut to Top 8 for Rochester. This would really determine who's who.
  17. GymLeaderPhil

    GymLeaderPhil New Member

    International players who do not read English will have a slim chance of being able to compete in a sealed (limited) format, unless PUI manages to have enough product in different languages to manage all possibilities. Slim chance that would ever happen. That's why Worlds is a constructed format and will remain that way.
  18. JediDrew

    JediDrew New Member

    Drafting has vastly more skill than modified. Anyone can go on the internet and and find a deck and learn to play relatively easily. With drafting you have to study the cards in the set and learn what to take and what not too. You can't just use the excuse "my packs were bad." You choose almost as much from other people's packs as you do your own packs. You just have to know which are the right cards to take. The excuse that drafting is more luck doesnt work. Everyone is working from the same packs and the person that puts the most effort into their draft will win. Also the professor championship could have been layed out that way for many reasons. In magic they only play each draft for 3 games before switching up the pods and drafting again. A multi format worlds would be a huge step forward.

    As far as international players I don't think this would be the first time this has happened in a game. Im sure there have been solutions that can be looked into. Also they should know what some of the pictures are and tell some if not a lot of the cards that way. As I said there are probably solutions that can be looked into.

    On the subject of changing decks I just don't see that as a good thing. Switching decks has never been something included into tournaments. Also if I come up with a really good deck I want my efforts payed off. I don't want half the field switching over to or metagaming my deck. Its not right. You put all that effort into comming up and testing that deck only to have it ripped off. Put yourself in that situation. Would you want that to happen?
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2004
  19. CrimsonWarrior26

    CrimsonWarrior26 New Member

    Another way to test their Flexability in formats is to have a few random 2on2 battles here and there
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2004
  20. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Can't argue with you about that GLPhil (the language aspects of Worlds).

    Drafting is TOO luck-based. I say, if you really want to see how well players can construct decks, then give every player the same pool of cards and tell them to construct their deck. Once you start adding the luck-of-the-draft to the equation, because many of the players are at/near the same skill level, now you're placing TOO much emphasis on luck. JMO.

    Regarding Rochester Draft, I see that as requiring more skill than regular draft, but still luck based.

    Constructed is the way to go. You have COMPLETE control over what you put in your deck. That's NOT the case for any form of Limited format.

    Nevertheless, I wouldn't argue if a smaller portion of Worlds included some kind of Limited format. They did it at the previous TMBs.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2004
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