Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by NoPoke, Sep 12, 2003.

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  1. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    So if you could change one thing about how the game is played what would it be and why?

    Me? Well I'd like to see intentional muligan's introduced into tournament play just like magic.

    bad draw? don't like your starting basic? shuffle and draw one less card. No basic and you don't want to take the intentional muligan then show your hand to your opponent for the usual additional card penalty.

    Maybe we can weedle a comment out of MTM. (I wonder if wotc are still watching ;) )
  2. Nick15

    Nick15 Member

    Flips. FLIPS. FLIPS!!

    The less the game relies on flips, the better. I mean I wouldn't eliminate flips all together, but I would make it where major strategies and player wins would NOT hang on a mere heads/tails decision.

    If I could make my own attacks and it had to involve a flip, the effect of a flip would be strictly beneficial. As in never would a flip do anything that could compromise a win. For example, all attacks that involve a flip would do something whether or not you get a heads or not. Then the coin flip would only tack onto what's already being done.

    A good example of these sort of things would be like "Quick Attack"; an attack that already does damage anyways and a flip would just help.

    A bad example of this would be say Tyrogue's attack, where it a coin flip would determine if it did damage or not.

    ...if you get what I mean. :) This flip theory would eliminate the Baby Rule, but keep attacks like "[CC] Draw a card. Then flip a coin. If heads, you may draw another card." Stuff like that. :)
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2003
  3. Tego

    Tego New Member

    I agree with you Nick15, attacks where the entire damage isn't only based on flips are best. Quick Attack is a good example. I also like the "you-could-take-a-risk-if-you-want" type of flips, like on Neo Revelation Lugia and Skyridge Steelix. Those attacks are based entirely on flips like Tyrogue's but at least you can choose if you want to take a chance or just do ordinary damage.

    But I don't agree on the point that the game wouldn't work at all without flips. I've been playing with the idea of a game entirely without flips for a long while. So much, actually, that I decided to make my own stand-alone expansion without coin flips, the "Flipless" Expansion

    In a format with Flipless expanions only, it could actually work!
  4. Skywolf1

    Skywolf1 New Member

    Better Organized Play Structure....

    My issue doesn't necessarily come from game mechanics per se, as it does the Organized Play aspect.

    As many people know, UD's OP program is thriving. Why? Because they are responding to, and answering the concerns and issues of their players.

    Nintendo I am sure will have an equally good program in place, however, time is not on our side here, and getting people to come back to the game who have moved on to another game, is going to present an additional challenge.

    I have expressed these, and many other issues to PUI/Nintendo and the response seems to be that at least they are "listening". However, ACTIONS, in this case speak MUCH LOUDER than words.

    Take Care,

  5. Dragonite

    Dragonite New Member

    I agree with the flips and intentional mulligan. These are the two things that I like better about LOTR. In LOTR you draw 8 cards and if you don't like your hand you shuffle then draw 6 cards. Also there are no flips in LOTR so it is more skill based and a little luck (drawing the card you needed).
    I do like Nintendo's rules on mulligan where you only draw 1 card if your opponent mulligans and if both players mulligan they shuffle and draw again (makes it easier for the younger players).
  6. dkates

    dkates New Member

    I also think that intentional mulligans would be a good idea, but I disagree with Nick15's comments about coin flips. One thing I like about Pokemon:TCG is the ever-present element of chance. Although I think that sometimes it's overdone, these are mostly situational cases. For example, the Banded Baby defense. Although I use it in many of my decks, I do see it as annoying for both sides. I use it only because it often works. That one's pretty easily fixed -- a reprint of Focus Band that specifically prohibits use on Baby Pokemon eliminates the double flip that is the Banded Baby defense.
  7. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    yes the final between Ness and Jereon at Indianapolis was all about the risk of a failed flip.

    Made for a very interesting game. Compelling to watch much like poker!
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2003
  8. dkates

    dkates New Member

    If you think about it, one major difference between Pokemon and many other TCGs is that you basically can't do anything at all during your opponent's turn. In other TCGs, flips are less necessary because there are other ways for attacks or strategies to fail. JMO. Now, what would I personally change if I could? Institute a limiting system, something like there is in Japan. Certain overpowered cards would be re-balanced by being limited in the number you can have in the deck. Sneasel, for example, might be limited to 1 or 2. However, unlike Japan's limiting system for Pokemon, I do not think that the number of different limited cards in your deck should be limited. Make sure the list is easy to understand. Make limited cards limit at 2 each, non-limited cards limit at 4 each.
  9. mysterioustrainer

    mysterioustrainer New Member

    But but I life flips it scares the pants off of people when a flip makes the difference between victory and defeat. For example a deck at the SBZ2 that I judged was a non-holo expedition feraligatr deck that made it into the top 8 mainly because of its potienal damage.

    I honestly can't think of anything wrong with the game right now though.
  10. Tails

    Tails New Member

    Being able to do stuff on your turn would be fun, as Dkates mentioned. Maybe a card that says "Discard a card from your hand to counter target Trainer?" That way, I have a chance to actively mess with your game, but at a price...

    Match play and sideboards would be interesting, too... Maybe when/if Nintendo lets us post stuff (C'mon! We can do that later, right?), I might put that under a Casual header... 15-20 card sideboard, best of 3...

    Being able to play cards face down would be fun, too. Play normal Trainers face down on your turn, use them at any time between turns, but only after your opponent's next...

    Taking two or more of your Poké and making a new one would change the game a lot... Heh heh heh... Anyone remember Venustoise? :)
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2003
  11. Silvercharizard

    Silvercharizard New Member

    Nick15's right. Part of the reason I like Yu-Gi-Oh is because of the lack of flips. Less flips also means the game is less luck-dependent (And we all know flips can be irratating at times).
  12. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Way to twist my words, Tails. I wasn't suggesting allowing players to take actions during opponenents' turns, I was pointing out that it doesn't happen. Although, it would be interesting. The "Fusion" thing? Going too far. I'm not interested in creating Yugimon.
  13. Android17a

    Android17a New Member

    I'm all for the reduction of flipping, but I wouldn't want to see it totally eradicated. What would happen to confusion, or burn? No, flips should remain, albeit with less tedium.

    A good example of a flip which prevents people using a certain card is the kicking Combusken from R/S. It's attack does 50 on a heads, nothing on a tails. Surely a "30 if tails, 30 plus 20 more if heads" ruling is far preferable?
  14. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    Flips are here
    Flips should stay...Flips are part of the game's FUN

    There are always going to be GOOD cards and BAD cards.

    As long as there are sufficient GOOD cards then I'm okay with the flips. Some people love the tails fails aspect of a few of the cards. Personally I don't, but I don't want to restrict anyones enjoyment of the game.

    POWER cards like Tyrogue that involve elements of Heads I win. Do need to be avoided IMHO

    BTW the final between Ness and Jereon was Scizor vs Rage Feraligatr (using memory berry). The reason it was such a good final to watch was because neither player wished to let the flips decide the outcome. Lesser players might have just gone-for-it and their game wouldn't have been so special to watch.
  15. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    I didn't wish for this thread to become a debate on flips...we've been over this ground several times before on the old gym.

    Perfectly reasonable to have a reduction in flippymon as your Druthers ;) (its one of mine too.. damn that Tyrogue! LOL )

    Any further ideas for change? Try to think of something fresh. (like the ability to respond to your opponents plays that was suggested )
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2003
  16. dkates

    dkates New Member

    This might be a LITTLE OT, but I've always wished we really could propose our Create-a-Card ideas to the companies that make the cards. Not that they'd necessarily take all, or even any of them, just that we could get them to look at them. I'm currently working on a set here (well, in CaC) that I think would be a very interesting addition to the real game.
  17. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    nice idea was the promo snorlax just FAN art or did it also have FAN attacks?
  18. Scyther_trainer

    Scyther_trainer New Member

    The Snorlax was only Fan Art. The attack was already created.

    Anyway, I don't think they would use created cards because of the legal issues that would create. Such as Intellectual Property rights... it would be cool though.

    BTW: A couple of my friends and I are making our own "Gym" style set. It has 90 cards and is about 15% done. :)
  19. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Well, I suppose that would be a problem, but I still think being able to get players' ideas for cards could help keep the game fresh, if it could be pulled off.
  20. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    Making your own cards that could become part of a set is cool and doesn't have to be avoided because of Intellectual Property Rights .. Magic does it ever year with the world champion so why not Pokemon?
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