Estimated Print Run of Cards?

Discussion in 'Collecting and Card Price Discussion' started by flygon_frank_66, Dec 15, 2011.

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  1. flygon_frank_66

    flygon_frank_66 New Member

    I know that this is probably a obvious question but I had to ask.
    Is there any possible way to estimate the print run of cards? Like say the Base 1st ed. Charizard.
    Is there a source somewhere that can figure out how many were printed?
  2. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    Can I add to this question? I've always wondered: What's to stop the company from printing extra cards from any set at any given time?

    As far as a print run--I do not think so. That information is probably proprietary.
  3. mkpokecc

    mkpokecc Member

    Believe me, I have tried to get information from PCL regarding print runs. They kindly informed me that they cannot disclose that information. :/
    Not getting fired from their job is a good incentive not to print whatever they want. But nothing really stops them from printing anything as long as they get word from whoever heads the TCG.
  4. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    Right--so what's to say that there couldn't be a flood of 1st edition base set boxes leaked onto the market at any given point in time?
  5. Miamisportsfan45

    Miamisportsfan45 Active Member

    I would assume that nothing is stopping this, we just wouldn't know and the value would stay as is for that reason. Aside from that, if we ever did find out that this was actually ongoing these editions of the particular cards being flooded would be valued even higher and somebody would more than likely be without a job.
  6. Crinus

    Crinus New Member

    as once a coin collector, I can guarantee you any amount of money that their is people printing up some older cards in the factory. The Mints are more guarded than a card factory and its happened at the mints before.

    I can 100% prove this with a picture I found of a card in someones possession and actually graded by PSA, PM and I can provide details on that. I thought it was a fake, but it might of been a very recent fresh print run since the color is not faded at all.

    It does involve a 1st Edition base card.

    Yes, 1st edition base boxes, cards, packs, have all seemed to of flooded ebay in the last couple of years or so, you couldnt find them much at all back in the early years when they were first printed.

    I firmly believe someone is doing this within where ever the printing process is done. I am not sure on if its at WOTC if they even still got the resources to do that, but I am into a good belief that it is being done in Japan. Their is some more information that kind of leads me to that being the case to regardless of what people in the past have said on another issue similar to this.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  7. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    Do you mean that counterfeiters are producing them?

    Or are you saying it's TPCI or WotC that are printing them without permission?
  8. Crinus

    Crinus New Member

    one point I thought it was counterfeiters, in some cases it is where people is just simply adding a stamp to some shadowless base cards.

    But it could very well be people at TPCI or WOTC doing it without permission.

    As a guy who done alot of buying/selling/trading of base cards, most will know the color, more noted the color within the holofoil fades after a few years. Then I ran across this gem:

    You can try as you might to get an angle on any charizard card you wish, you wont EVER get that rich color. Thats the type of coloring of base cards after they were freshly printed. It was done recently because it had other cards in the picture thats very recent.

    Some cards within the packs will be a little brighter, but they fade way more than that card in the pic has.

    Take example the 1913 Liberty Nickel as prime example of someone at the mint producing a few copies to sell out, this point the Liberty Nickel was stopped in 1912 in favor of the Buffalo Nickel for 1913.

    Also note we keep running into as many Charizards of Base 1st Edition than we do Unlimited it seems, if indeed this is being done without permission, their is no telling how many of them were produced like this.

    More food for thought is we know The Pokemon Company is on a limited budget, very limited, so to have someone within the company doing this is highly likely as well, more so than someone at WOTC. If you got a limited budget, you dont have the security, they may have 1 guy running the whole process through machine for all we know. Reason I think this could be done in Japan (assuming Japan and English have 2 different printing processes in 2 different locations) I will get to that later on when I translate the page. It could be being done at both places.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  9. raichuforyou

    raichuforyou New Member

    I suppose if people can print fake money, they could print fake cards. However, I doubt WOTC could be doing it these days. I'm pretty sure they don't keep any info on the Pokemon tcg anymore (I called and asked about 1st ed Base set not too long ago). I doubt nintendo could print the same cards. Perhaps if there are resent prints of 1st ed Charizards, maybe they have a different feel or consistency.
  10. mkpokecc

    mkpokecc Member

    Agreed^. They no longer even use the same holographic sheets and the formatting on the cards nowadays is complety different
    Tpc can't just print more. If wotc did, you can bet lawsuits will ensue.
    Posted with Mobile style...
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  11. Crinus

    Crinus New Member

    Well I had made post regarding the base charizards in specific here

    at this point I thought some of the ones on ebay and in collections were real good counterfeits, they just dont look (by normal eye) like the original ones printed in the 98-99 run because their color seems way more vibrant and bright than what the original 98-99 print runs were. Cards out of packs today will have a little more brightness to them, but not like in that photo I linked.

    But it could very well be reprinted cards by TPC or WOTC, you have to believe with Nintendo/creatures/tpc, everyone involved, nothing is thrown out. So I have good reason to believe they still own the original process to make those cards if they wanted to., including that old style holofoil which you never know may come back in the future. But like in coins, what I am betting is, the company doesnt know its being done, and if they do, they will keep a lid on it due to the cause and effect.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  12. mkpokecc

    mkpokecc Member

    WoTC and TPC are not reprinting these cards and here is why:

    1.) WoTC lost the rights to print those cards over roughly 10 years ago. That also includes the right to use those images and the Pokemon brand name. If they did re-print those cards with their copyright info on them now, that is a major lawsuit waiting to happen. What potential befit would be worth that risk?

    2.) TPC has reprinted old cards in some of the "newer" sets as secret rares. The only difference was the new format/errata. In addition, why would TPC re-print old cards with Wizards copyright info? Once again, that is a no-no.

    What those "really good" counterfeits most likely are:
    1.) Real unlimited print run cards with a "1st ed" stamp superimposed/printed on them. -you make more money of 1st editions than unlimited.
    2.) You can strip a card down to the holo layer using acetone. From there you can print whatever you want on the card stock providing you have the right printer. (Laser/ink jets will not work so don't waste the time).

    The point is they are not re-printing anything (they could if they really wanted) and thieves are crafty.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  13. Crinus

    Crinus New Member

    1. ) I didnt say they were doing it legally.

    2.) Someone wanting to get rich?

    understand this is an inside job by someone (could be more than 1 person) that is doing this to make a quick buck most likely within WOTC or TPC.

    your acetone theory is plausible to, but this depends on what kind of printer is required for such a job to.

    Did you see that charizard pic I posted earlier?

    Base set cards dont look that bright in color, you wont ever replicate that color no matter what angle the camera is setting at on a real base set or shadowless card.

    apparently some of these are on ebay mixed in with the legit ones.

    I kinda of get that funny feeling that some of this mentioned is hitting its mark by a certain group of people that has yet to post on this topic regarding this to, thats where one of those cards came from I posted a picture of to, perhaps this is the secret to obtaining the good stuff while not being wealthy.

    But why I think this could be being done, its being done Rogue style where no one within WOTC or TPC knows its being done.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  14. mkpokecc

    mkpokecc Member

    Both of the charizards you pictured are real. One is a photograph that shows darker colors and the other is a scan with brighter colors from light being concentrated solely on the card. Both are shadowless...and the "off" color is most likely the camera.
    No conspiracy here...sorry R-Truth ;)
  15. Crinus

    Crinus New Member


    perhaps they are real and not counterfeit, but those cards might be a recent unauthorized print by someone at the factory.

    this point of discussion their is no argument on if its fake or real, but more like unauthorized print.

    read the first 2 post I posted on here carefully and then go and see for yourself.
  16. smpratte

    smpratte Active Member

    You can assume whatever you want but there is no real evidence showing that it is a fake. I have seen plenty of newer fake cards but not many older one's. Fakes are obvious for people who know all of the subtle details.

    If the point of this is just to get conspiracies going around: I think the charizard card is actually a pikachu illegally printed by team rocket.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  17. Crinus

    Crinus New Member

    But who is saying its fake if its printed up at the TPC or WOTC printing factory?
  18. mkpokecc

    mkpokecc Member

    I can't believe I'm feeding into this. To sum up: Both cards are real, the charizard was printed by WoTC and no one is re-printing anything. Not much left to discuss.

    P.S if you look at the back of the first charizard you listed, you will notice of the signs of age (WoTC). Unless, you suppose TCP printed it and scrapped their fingernails across the edges to make it seem authentic :)
  19. SD PokeMom

    SD PokeMom Mod Supervisor Staff Member

    dude, do you honestly think that WotC or TPCi do their printing in-house?

    THEY DON'T. cards are printed by large commercial printing firms; there was an article on the OP site years ago showing one of the worlds decks being press-checked by it's player who happened to live in the same area as the printing company.

    sheets of cards are printed on HUGE commercial presses, with equally huge print runs. it takes so much 'make ready' other words, get the images in register, color/ink saturation correct,'s absolutely NOT just a case of pushing a button and cards come out.

    what you're suggesting is on the line with the upper deck/YGO lawsuit, which involved thousands upon thousands of 'counterfeit' cards...not just a handful of base set 1st edition charizards.

    basing your whole conspiracy theory on a single card image is...i don't even have words. you've never heard of using photo editing software to enhance color/saturation/brightness/sharpness?

  20. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    To be clear, my question was more related to whether or not someone at the printing company could be doing this.
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