Format for a Perfect (Sand) Storm?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by Broken Lizard, Aug 13, 2003.

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  1. Broken Lizard

    Broken Lizard New Member

    As we all know, and expected, the transition of the game from WotC to PUI has been a bit 'bumpy'. The player base is still largely intact, for now, but is anxiously awaiting important new information, especially regarding formats.

    There are also untold thousands of former players who hopped on the fanboy bandwagon at some point, and then hopped off again for one reason or another months to years ago. Many of them still have their cards, and some of them are showing interest in rejoining the player base! I think Nintendo/PUI would be smart to do something to entice those players to bring out their old cards for another go at the game.

    Those of you who know me know that I spend a lot of time thinking about formats. I live for new ones. Nothing else showcases true deck building skill or boosts player interest like a brand new, untested format.

    I think I may have come up with something worth a look.

    Before I go into details, it is important to remind everyone that any new format must meet certain criteria. Any new format must:

    -Be simple to learn and explain
    -Be accessible to newer players
    -Encourage sales of newer cards
    -Be balanced and interesting ​

    With these requirements in mind, I give you:


    1. All cards allowed under the current Modified Format may be used as normal.

    2. Single copies of any cards ever released in the US (promos and cards from older sets) may also be used.​

    And that's it.

    It is very simple, yet highly dynamic, since it changes whenever a new set enters play. Most decks would still need to run at least 1 evolution line, I think. This is because there is not enough reliable removal in the format to support a pure 'haymaker variant'. The main evolution line would need to come from a newer set, along with many of the trainers. This would meet the requirement that the format encourage card sales!

    Of particular strategic benefit, all of the Stadiums released thus far suddenly become playable again. 'Broken' trainers are available also, but only as singles, along with BBP's (yes, even Sneasel).

    I think that the format would really balance the colors well, given the ability to TecH in singles to cover holes in the ranks of underutilized colors like Lightning.

    Here are some of the other benefits this format could create:

    -Combining the best aspects of both Modified and Unlimited Formats to produce something new, fresh and exciting.

    -Allowing former players the chance to use some of their existing cards in Premier events, thus giving them incentive to return to the game.

    -Limiting the impact of 'overpowered' older cards while using them to spice up and balance gameplay.

    -Increasing strategic options for creative deck designs and playstyles.

    -Further distinguishing PUI as a company with bold new ideas of its own, not merely rehashed WotC standards.

    -Allowing older players to trade with newer players for cards that each may have, and that the other will need.​

    PUI needs to do whatever possible to kickstart its OP programs. The signs thusfar are all good, but I think something more may be needed. Could this be it?
  2. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    You got broken again? :(

    Well, the only problem I'd have with this format is that it's a bit random if you happen to draw the "power" cards or not.
  3. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    i would have to disagree with this format with one thing, Base Blastoise, even having one in the deck, with the actual drawpower in MF, it would be ridiculosly overpowered. The only thing stopping these, would be that he ends up in prizes...
  4. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Access to the older cards would give us all a chance to avoid flippy-mon. So the idea has merit.

    Apart from a few pokemon, mostly I'd expect it to be the trainers that would be used from the earlier sets. So as a minor adjustment to Lizards suggestion maybe all earlier trainers should be accessible, rather than all the old cards. The Japanese have had restrictions for a long time and it doesn't seem to cause them any difficulty...
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2003
  5. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 Active Member

    I don't see this working. The number of single cards will make decks difficult to check. I also feel that modified as is works very well, and that an update to it would serve the game immensely.
  6. RaNd0m

    RaNd0m New Member

    This also discourages new players entering the game. Guys, they'll probably choose RS On, because most of us will continue playing ANYWAYS... while it makes it where new players can easily join in. It's common sense ;/

    LC-On or EX-On don't allow new players to easily enter the game, making it where they'd rather join another TCG instead.

    ~ RaNd0m
  7. IndigoMaster

    IndigoMaster New Member

    I playtested this format a good bit back in uh...hmmm it was time of the pokeisle, so it was after WCSTS, before the GCs i believe. I remember loving the format so much, this thing was so much fun to play. The testing we did was really interesting, i'm not too sure how it would work with the new sets...since i haven't tested it with sets past NDestiny. But yea, the format was awesome, you guys should give it a chance. The only real down side to it is the availability of old cards....but eh
  8. RaNd0m

    RaNd0m New Member

    btw, when's sandstorm released?

    ~ RaNd0m
  9. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 Active Member

    Sometime next month.
  10. mtjimmer

    mtjimmer Master Trainer, Emeritus

    There will be prereleases scheduled for early-mid September, with a release in mid-September. Until it's officially out, that's all I can say.
  11. Baboon

    Baboon New Member

    Very interesting format, but I don't think it would work. It could be abused by certain cards, but yes, the majority of cards would not be able to be abused.
    There would just be too many minor flaws to that format as compared to its advantages.
    Expedition on still shows itself as the best choice for the future. New players STILL have access to Expedition through Skyridge, as they're all less than a year old. Yes, R/S on would work for some people, and allow for new people, BUT, as was clearly described on the Modified v.3 thread, R/S on is a horrible format as of now. It would discourage many people from continuing with the game. Down the road, ok, then it could be much better.

    As long as E-sets are available, whether they come off the shelf, or second-hand, by trading, Expedition-on is the best format for keeping the existing players, while still leaving the door open for new people.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2003
  12. Prof. Douglas Zuver

    Prof. Douglas Zuver New Member

    Is there any reason why we cannot have more than Two
    Constructed Formats?

    There is Pokemon Unlimited.
    With all the cards availble.
    Magic calls this Type One format.

    There is Pokemon Modified.
    With only the certain sets available.
    Magic calls this Type Two format.

    There could be something in between.
    Unlimited with certain cards banned
    or restricted because they are too
    powerful. (Sneasel Neo and friends)
    Magic calls this Type 1.5 format.

    The Hybrid Format suggested above is
    just one example of what a Type 1.5 format
    could be like. This format could change as
    time goes by...

    Furret walks into the room.
    Furret reads Doug's Post.
    Furret decides Pokemon
    Type 1.5 should be called
    The Furret Format.

    Furret quite pleased itself,
    gets out a Lava Cookie to
  13. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod


    I disagree that LC-on or EX-on keeps new players from entering the game. They can trade for what they need short term with other people in their OP experiences. Plus, those formats don't need to have a huge lifetime. But RS=on is too abrupt and also contrary to the approach thus far...

    PUI has WISELY taken an inclusive approach to the transition:

    Old profs -- IN
    There is an argument for excluding the 'I just took the test so I could keep playing.' fellow trainers from being profs. But PUI seems to realize NOW is not the time to do it. Bring everyone over, then things will sort themselves out, especially because...

    Older players -- IN
    It has become clear that TPC was NOT the impetus for the exclusion of 15+ from OP, but rather fears/concerns of the higher ups in WOTC/Hasbro. Bless the MTs, they tried to stave it off and when they couldn't they very creatively implemented the professor program. PUI saw how 15+ exclusion hurt the game and sales. 15+ in. In fact, 15+ are the ones with the most...

    Old cards -- IN
    So far, statements about Pokemon-e have stressed the compatibility of the game with older cards. To me that implies mainstream OP, as well. PUI seems to realize that we have had 4 sets so far in 2003. It seems likely to me that we'll have 6 before year end. Dumping the cards from the first of the year and last holidays, does not have much merit to me. From a balance perspective, it seems bad, e.g.given the weak draw in RS so far, but that's debatable. However, the RUDENESS of making people who came back to this game in the last year dump much of their just bought cards in favor of RS seems to be anti-consumer. Planned obsolescence on speed. Sure, modified is about obsolescence and accessibility but RS-on in October is too abrupt.

    Forgive me, but 'September change good for a year' was a WOTC timetable. I don't think we should expect it and I certainly couldn't support it during this transition. I have boxes of E-card and LC that I intend to use to give the local kids (and SoCal tourney players) a chance to get in low cost drafts. I'll turn that money around and buy R/S & Sandstorm to do more drafts. At that point I have a bunch of new players with a good LC-on card pool. If that was good 'til Spring, it would be good for the game.

    My experience is that if a new player comes to my draft and gets enough cards to play in constructed, then they shortly will be showing off cards they got apart from the tourneys.

    Easy does it. I don't think we should be expecting or inviting the JOLTs we've gotten in the past from WOTC/Hasbro out of PUI. Grow it slow and it'll be stronger in the end.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2003
  14. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    These 1 of this card, 1 of that card formats, I don't think would work. It will confuse younger players & it just doesn't feel right to me.
    As for the "Furret Format" wasn't LC basically accomplishing that. ;)
  15. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    So what might Lizards trainer engine look like?

    1 Oak
    1 Elm
    1 Gust
    1 Item Finder
    1 CPU Search
    1 SER
    1 ER
    1 Chaos Gym (My FAVOURITE!)
    1 PlusPower
    1 Trader
    +E-on cards

    The only card I've listed that bothers me is SER it may just add to the random element that we currently have with the likes of Focus band and tyrogue.
  16. Type 1.5

    Actually, I think this is a decent idea.

    Allow the power cards, but limit them to 1 in between Unlimited and Modified...that way no one can complain that they don't have their Oak/Search/Finder...they just don't have 4 of them.

    The other reason I think this could work: I can think of another game a lot of people have been playing lately where all the good cards are restricted to 1...
  17. Porygon3

    Porygon3 New Member

    go erica.
  18. Dek

    Dek New Member

    I agree with CPU on this one. I think this would be a great format idea. The only thing I dont understand is how you people are complaining about bringing the old, yet, more "powerful" cards back into play. As far as I know, the older cards cant even match up to the power of the new ones (like Marcargo). If you look at decks/cards today (like our "good friend," Tyrouge), you cant even KO one pokemon in the current Modified Format unless you have a bloody Four-Leaf Clover with you. So, in my opinion, I think this would be a great idea. This could be like Nintendo's version of Unlimited.
  19. SaNdy-MaN

    SaNdy-MaN New Member

    whatever they do I hope they stop mixing formats
  20. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Seems to me the older Trainers tend to be more powerful than the new ones, but the old Pokemon tend to be less powerful than the new ones.
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