Gengar/Muk= Flipper

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by KingGengar, Oct 29, 2007.

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  1. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    The name comes from the idea that a Pokemon with Grass Energy will die instantly with a flip of Life Drain.

    3 grimer
    3 muk

    3 gastly
    2 haunter
    3 gengar

    1 smeargle

    -- 15

    2 great ball
    2 roseanne's
    4 celio's
    4 rare candy
    3 windstorm
    2 steven's
    2 tgw
    2 copycat
    2 castaway
    3 pokedex
    1 night maint
    2 warp point

    -- 29

    11 psychic
    4 dre
    1 scramble

    -- 16

    STRATEGY: Muk's Poke-Body makes the Defending Pokemon Poisoned if it has Grass Energy. This includes Multi, delta Rainbow, DRE, Scramble, and Castform, as well as Grass. So, good odds that the Defending will be Poisoned. Gengar uses Life Drain, which is nasty against anything when you hit heads. With Muk, a heads flip and a Poisoned Pokemon is a KO. Gengar's second attack works to spread damage counters, which is helpful also.

    Smeargle is added as an outlet. First, if you start with it, get 3 energy. Second, if it comes up mid-game, use Trace (also a flip) to copy one of opponent's Benched Pokemon. Good TecH. You can take out the Smeargle for another Grimer if you want the quicker start.

    Pokedex added to the mix to have a better chance of getting DRE's, which Muk needs, and which doesn't affect Gengar at all. You could use instead ER2 to get rid of Holon WP or GL on the Defending Pokemon. Warp Point is included also for that reason, to remove to the Bench a Pokemon with WP or GL, or CC. Windstorm is also to get rid of CC.

    Muk's attack is pretty cool, utilizing Confusion, and No-Escape. Combined with Haunter's Sleep, you have quite a bit of disruption in the deck.

    Grimer's Gunky is a type of Agility. Gastly is pretty bad.

    Venomoth is a problem for the deck, and only Muk can do anything about it since Gengar, Haunter, Grimer's Gunky, and all Special Conditions have no influence on Venomoth. However, you will still get the Poison from Muk's Poke-Body.
  2. Kenta

    Kenta New Member

    Why not cacturne PK?
  3. NidoPrince

    NidoPrince New Member

    I actually like the Muk here. The reason Cacturne isn't that great is you have to have the stadium in play, or there is no poison. With Electvire/Blissey running like it is, there's no way that the stadium will be in play for long...

    Nice Deck! You may want to put in some ER2's to get rid of the GL.
  4. Kenta

    Kenta New Member

    Well, I prefer play the stadium.

    If the opponent doesn't have a grass/DRE/Scramble on it, the deck does nothing.

    Even if the defending has a grass, I don't like to flip so much. That's not a 'funny deck' :(
  5. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    Yes, ER2 definitely is a good idea. You can take out the Pokedex for ER2 if you want to concentrate on that aspect.

    Cacturne PK I've already tried. Bloody awful. And believe it not, Cacturne's Pin Missile only nets me 20-40 per hit, so I like Muk better.

    I think there will be a lot more Grass, and perhaps Castform will make a comeback, and Scramble decks will be bigger now that speed is king.
  6. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    The thing is vs any deck that uses no grass you're in some trouble. If you face Blissey or Blissey/Lucario you're stuck.

    If you face players who are smart they will try to stay away from using those special energies at opportune moments.

    Your trainer line also needs some work.

    Pokedex? It's REALLY not that good of a card.
    4 rare candy for only one 3/2/3 line? Overkill.
    No masterball/quickball/duskball? Bleh.
    No mentor or scott? I don't like only playing 2 great ball and 2 rose...
  7. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    Well, vs Blissey, we have a *little* leeway with Gengar's Resistance. Unless you say Holon FF+ Fighting, in which case I would say "bleh" to that Energy lineup for Blissey. To me, it seems like the least of the Holon Energies to use.

    But OK, let's say Blissey uses Holon FF + Fighting. We're going for the flip anyway with Gengar. Without Muk's Poison, we don't have instant KO, but I think it's close enough for Gengar to use Shadow Dance and find Blissey, whether on the Bench, or Potion'd (of course, SSU'd is not good for Gengar, or anyone!).

    The deck also has a little mustard vs Lucario with Muk's attack and Psychic Weakness. Certainly, with a DRE, 60 damage to Lucario+Confusion+ Can't Escape is pretty good. But, yes, *if* Lucario Lv.X comes out, we have somewhat of a problem. Unless it uses a Scramble for some reason (some people run it), and then it's Poisoned.

    Can a smart player stay away from certain energy? Depends on the situation. It's a risk-based deck anyway. So, I would take my chances, especially given Life Drain.

    Pokedex is OK. I've tested and it's better than Pokenav. I do say if you like ER2 as a strategy, try that.

    4 Candy is for the T1 or T2 Gengar. Still a 3 in 7 chance of starting Gastly and *don't* want to stuck with *that* card. So a "planned overkill."

    Master/Dusk/Quick doesn't work well in multi-line decks. Great minds may differ, but my playtesting shows me I can't get away with it.

    No Scott so that I can concentrate on Castaway. If you want, replace a Pokedex with Scott. No Phoebe's in order to stay away from Breloom (even if Breloom will run it anyway). No Mentor - nothing to benefit discarding here. 2/2 Great/Hamana is a little light, I'll grant. Can always go with more consistency by taking out the Pokedex (luxury anyway).

  8. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Worry about Breloom when you actually face it at a tournament. (imho)

    Read my signature.
  9. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    Some more options to consider for poisoning through PokemonPowers are Vileplume d and the new Venusaur. I say venusaur is the best since it gives the option to Burn, put asleep, or poison. Don't forget that these pokemon's powers are stackable, so you could possibly be doing flips for all three of these with Venusaur Secret Wonders. Adding a stage two instead of the stage one wouldn't hurt too much since you already play plenty of Rare Candy! :thumb: -Good idea, hope you have a lucky coin ;)
  10. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    Well, I already tried Gengar/ Crobat, and it's pretty slow going. Not to mention I don't like being stuck with Gastly if Crobat has to go back to the deck. Im also not thrilled with Zubat.

    The Vileplume is a good idea, but we need a new Oddish.

    Venusaur is just the wrong type, I think. And it's a flip, like Vileplume, although a more flexible one.

    Thanks for the comments!
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