Guru Point Challenge #3 - Making TYPHLOSHION Prime work!

Discussion in 'Guru Deck Challenge & Strategy Topic Discussions' started by Rogue Archetype, Jan 30, 2011.

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  1. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    Hi Pokemon Gurus!

    I've had many requests to start Guru Points up again. So, to make it managable, I will only give Guru Points to those who participate in these Guru Point Challenge threads (and the stickied thread-of-the-week).

    I'll be tossing up these brainteasing challenges to:

    1. Keep you from getting bored/ Give us all something to do.
    2. Help us share some nifty little tricks-of-the-trade that may lead to some powerful and creative ideas.

    Today's Deck is: TYPHLOSION PRIME

    This pokemon looks SO big and bad that, I think, kids around the world would thank us if we could put our heads together and come up with ideas that work.

    SO... today's challenge is to contribute a REAL (viable) examples of how Typhlosion Prime could be successful in a deck that has synergy, consistency, and winning potential.

    Please read what has already been posted in the thread before you provide your own input.

    Good answers that lack detail = 1 Guru points
    Good answers that are detailed = 2 Guru points

    Brilliant Answer that may actually work! = 4 Guru Points!

    This excersize gets us in the habit of offering suggestions without destroying a player's effort to TRY his/her idea.

    RULE = YOU HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC and detailed to get full points (it helps fuel new ideas and keeps the thread alive)

    TIP - If you give an abbreviated effort, you won't earn as many points. ( i.e. You can't just say "Play it like Jumpluff with a 1-0-1 Flygon tech" and earn the full 2 Guru Points )

    Answers that appear to be off-topic (silly or spam) are subject to deletion.

    YOU LOSE POINTS if your respose is merely that the card is 1) not good 2) cannot work
    (TIP: Even if this is true, it's not creative and you'd be better off not posting a response at all.)

    A list of point leaders will be stickied to the top of the Strategy Forum.

    There are some very strong players visiting our forum, here's your opportunity to show off your knowledge of the game.

    Secret Tip = LINK cards that you mention in your examples to images in PokeGym's Research Tower. This will earn you 1 additional bonus point for your post!
  2. Roarkiller

    Roarkiller Member

    Typhlo is by default an excellent card. Like gengar, both variants run together in pretty good synergy to smack out a nice 120 every turn, with only ninetails as draw support and/or engineer's adjustment, both of whch are capable of discarding energy for typhlo to use. The 10 damage drawback, though, is a bother.

    Besides the standard Charizard deck, many people are looking at typhlo to be paired with ursaring. With memory berry, ursaring swings for 80 on a single energy, damage and energy both provided by typhlo, which already OHKO garchomp, and with reversals/warps, virtually anything on the bench too. Or strap on a DCE to swing for 90 with the option of expert belt for 110, enough to take out most SPs out there.

    Putting in both strategies, a skeleton list would look like this:

    3-2-3 typhlo
    3-3 ursaring
    2-2 ninetails
    3 spiritomb

    4 memory berry
    4 engineer
    3 BTS
    3 candy

    4 rescue
    4 DCE

    A lesser known strategy is rather unusual: flareon RR. Eeveelutions have the advantage of using the MD espeon and umbreon to increase HP by 20 and eliminate weakness (gyarados counter) respectively. Add a belt to the equation and you'll have a 130HP firebeast dishing out the magic 110 while typhlo takes care of energy attachments while you power up the next flareon/typhlo. In fact, utilizing the eeveelutions' speed, your resources are freed up to set up typhlo, since eevee MD can already get all four eevees out T1, bypassing any form of starters usually used. A good choice for starters I recommend, and all you need is the HS typhlo theme deck, two primes and the eevee lines. Simple deck costing under $50, and still kicks butt.

    A couple of fun ideas to experiement with. The Flareon RR play with eeveelutions is interesting; especitally since you can discard the fire with a Ninetales draw.
    Thanks for your thoughts ( Roarkiller - 1 Guru Point )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  3. thisguy

    thisguy New Member

    When you're building a deck around a certain card you have to look at it's strengths and play to them whilst being mindful of it's weaknesses, Typhlosion Prime doesn't hit that hard ([F][F][C] for 70) but it has built in energy acceleration and can send the defending Pokemon's energy cards to the discard pile. I found the secondary effect of Flare Destroy interesting as there isn't much else that does this in the current metagame and with the latest set CoL, we have Lost Remover to add to the mix as well.

    Pokemon - 21
    3 Typlosion Prime
    1 Typhlosion CL
    4 Quilava (CL)
    4 Cyndaquil (HS)
    4 Vulpix (SH)
    2 Ninetales (CL)
    1 Luxray GL
    1 Luxray GL LvX
    1 Unown Q
    1 Azelf LA

    Stadium - 2
    2 Broken Time-Space

    Supporter - 11
    4 Pokemon Collector
    3 Bebe's Search
    3 Fisherman
    1 Palmer's Contribution

    Trainer - 13
    4 Lost Remover
    2 Poketurn
    1 Luxury Ball
    3 Pokemon Communication
    3 Junk Arm

    Energy - 13
    9 Fire Energy
    4 Call Energy

    Total - 60

    I kind of rushed the list as I think the concept of the list is more important than the exact count of each card, it also changes with the each player's playing style and the cards they have access to.

    Typhlosion is the star of the deck so a full line of him, using the superior HS Cyndaquil over CL and 1 copy of non-prime Typhlosion. This acts not only as an Umbreon counter but as a heavier hitter, doing 50 more damage for the same energy cost.
    As it is a fire-type deck it makes sense to utilize the great draw engine it has in Ninetales. The 4-2 line may seem odd but Vulpix is your ideal starter whereas I think only 2 Ninetales will suffice.
    I had to put in Unown Q because there will be times when you need to retreat and might not want to send energy cards to the discard pile.
    Azelf is great, as a basic it can take a Pokemon out of your prizes and into your hand. This means prized Ninetales, Luxray and CL Typhlosion more often than not but can get whatever the situation calls for.
    I thought Luxray GL looked like a neat tech to put in this deck. Whilst Lost Remover can target benched Pokemon, Typhlosion can't. Luxray can bring a Pokemon your opponent is building up to the active slot and you can destroy one of it's energy cards. If the opponent hasn't got a good way to accelerate energy this can cripple them in combination with Lost Remover.

    A lot of this is pretty basic stuff: Collector, Bebe's, BTS, Luxury Ball, Communication and Palmer's.
    This deck needs Fisherman as it does involve playing around with discarding energy cards quite a bit.
    As I mentioned earlier, Lost Remover is there to remove energy cards in combination with Typhlosion Prime.
    Poketurn is there so that Luxray LvX can be reused when it is needed.
    Junk Arm is a handy card that can allow you to get more mileage out of Poketurn/Lost Remover.

    As it is a fire-type deck it requires the fire energies and Call Energy is for consistency.

    That went into a bit more detail then I intended but I hope it does it's job of explaining the deck, once I get some copies of Lost Remover I think I'll definitely be trying something like this out.

    The formatting in your post is excellent. The linked cards really help the reader quick-reference and the use of Luxray GL X is an interesting idea. Lost Remover combo'd with the energy discard attack is kinda hott actually. The list is untested and would need much tweeking, but you gave the reader the general concept(s). Thanks for your time. ( thisguy - 2 Guru Point )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  4. gallade

    gallade New Member

    Heres my little gem.

    19 pokes

    1-1 azelf lvx -search prizes and no weakness.
    2-2-2 typhlosion -keep attacking with DRL
    2-2 deoxys raquaza legend -take 6 prizes in 3 turns.
    2-1 uxie lvx -Consistant draw power
    1 unown q -RETREEEEEEEEET
    3 sableye -Setting up made easy

    27 trains
    2 pokemon collector -get out uxies and sableyes
    4 SSU -get damaged guys outta here
    4 bebes -get guys out
    3 rare candy -faster set up
    3 twins -your gonna sack some stuff early on, so sableye can search this out.
    1 palmers -get back guys
    2 pokemon rescue -a lot more efficient than palmers
    3 junk arm -faster set up, and discard fire energy
    3 communication -get stuff out there fast
    2 indigo plateau

    14 nrg
    8 fire
    6 electric

    Get a fast set up, and try to take 3 prizes (read: 6 prizes) as fast as possible. You need SSU's, because your going to take heavy damage, and typhlosion lets you attack every turn. Indigo P lets you live a little longer. You have indigo plateau for more hp, palmers for recovery, twins, because your always behind etc. You try and keep the list consistent as possible, but still with some perks.

    oh, btw, if you want to win the luxchomp matchup even more, try out this.

    Thanks for the fun idea of using Rayquazza/Deoxys. I don't think the list holds up, but that doesn't mean that someone won't work it out. I've seen a Rayquazza/Deoxys work, but not with Typhlosion. I'm not sure I can even give Guru Points for this. Sorry man.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  5. jeffrey123

    jeffrey123 New Member

    Cool. Typholosion is a card that I have tested with for quite awhile before states, I called it "BDIF" once I started playing it, that is, until I was disrupted with Bright Looks and quick snipes, keeping me from playing the deck, well, with Lost Remover and some rockin' disruption, Typholosion Prime may actually be a viable Tier 1-2 deck! The whole reason is because Typhlosion's main attack "Flare Destroy" costs so much, people may look at it and automatically just toss it to the side. Well, with Typholosion's built in energy acceleration, the attack is actually fairly cheap and hits good, essentially [F][C] for 70 and discard opponent's attached energy card. While mono-type fire decks aren't that great, this deck may be able to point fire decks in a new direction of disruption, speed, and hard hitting.

    (Pokemon: 21)
    4-3-4 Typhlosion Prime
    2-2 Ninetails
    2-1 Uxie Lv X
    2 Mesprit
    1 Giratina PL "Let Loose"

    (Trainers: 26)
    4 Pokemon Collector
    3 Sage's Training
    3 Judge
    2 Cyrus Initiative
    3 Rare Candy
    2 Broken Time Space
    3 Lost Remover
    2 Expert Belt
    2 Black Belt
    2 Seeker

    (Energy: 12)

    8 Fire Energy
    4 Call Energy

    The strategy revolves around Flare Destruction + Lost Remover + Disruption cards + Psychic Bind. Imagine discarding 1-2 energy from your opponent's active Pokemon, disrupting their hand of energy or other important cards, and then power locking them! What deck can recover from a Judge + Psychic Bind alone? This is why I was not quick to put a Gyarados counter into the deck. I can imagine that if you can just continue to disrupt, there's no way that they can beat you. Even if Typhlosion Primes are one shotted, Uxie X + Black Belt/Expert Belt can KO Gyarados by itself. Against Vilegar, you may have a rough time, although the deck is built for consistency, utilizing 4 Call Energy cards, and 4 Pokemon Collector cards. You should be able to disrupt them enough to stop a Vileplume from popping up before you play your own trainer cards, or take prizes off of Spiritombs. Luxchomp also is a quite difficult matchup, but it is completely beatable with disruption. You need to be wary of dropping your Giratina because if they bright look it up, you're in deep water. Swinging for 90-130 (Black+ Expert Belt) will allow you to surprise your opponent and take the lead.

    Very intriguing strategy. Nice straight-forward list. Black Belt can get in the way and hinder setup though. Gyrados WILL set up unless you continue to let loose though. The list the way you have it built will allow Gdos to get up and start smashing. (thanks to Sabeleye setup). Love the premise of this though. Thanks for taking the time to post this. ( Alex2k - 2 points )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  6. LegendCallerL

    LegendCallerL Member

    Typlosion's power recovers energy from the discard and damages along with it. that gave me the idea of combining it with Charizard G Lv. X, with a Ninetales CoL draw engine.

    24 Pokemon
    3-3-3 Typlosion Prime (HGSS Cyndaquil and Quilava)
    2-2 Charizard G lv. X (Charizard G)
    4-2 Ninetales HGSS (Pt Vulpix shiny)
    1 Azelf LA
    4 Crobat G

    21 T/S/S
    3 Broken-Time Space
    3 Team Galactic's Invention G-101 Energy Gain
    4 Cyrus's Conspiracy
    3 Bebe's Search
    2 Team Galactic's Invention G-109 SP Radar
    1 Luxury Ball
    4 Team Galactic's Invention G-105 Poké Turn
    1 Palmer's Contribution

    15 Energy
    4 Call Energy
    2 Double Colorless Energy
    9 Fire Energy

    Charizard G Lv. X is your main attacker here. It's attack one shots anything in the format. The downside: If you flip tails, those energy go to the discard pile. Typlosion is used to recover those :fire: energies from the discard. Instead of attaching directly to Charizard G, you attach to a benched pokemon SP. Call For Power shoves those energy onto Charizard, Poketurn the damaged SP to repeat later. Ninetales is a potent draw engine, Roast Reveal discarding one :fire: energy, drawing three cards. That's why I don't run Uxie. That fire energy can be used to charge Charizard G up before it even uses Malevolent Fire. Azelf is there in case something you need happens to be prized. The Crobat Gs are there for the use of Flash Bite to help secure anything that has 60-70 hp is KOed by Heat Blast, so you do not waste a Malev. Fire, as well as a place to stack fire energy and damage counters from Typhlosion.

    Broken Time Space is for rush evolution into Ninetales and Typlosion. Energy Gain is to stifle Charizard's ridiculously high energy costs. (50 for :fire::colorless: is reasonable or chance of 40 snipe for :fire:). Cyrus's Conspiracy grabs an invention, energy and a supporter to help set up. Bebe's Search and SP radar help search for Pokemon. Palmer's is for Pokemon recovery, and Poke Turn is to pick up damaged Charizard or as a part of the Crobat+Typlosion combination above.

    Call is for consistancy. Double Colorless helps rush a needed Malev. Fire, though it cannot be recovered. Fire energy is so you can attack.

    Getting energy onto the Charizard G and poketurning off damage from a benched crobat G is a cool idea. NineTales + Cyrus is a pretty good engine, but how do you get the T1-T2 setup down without Uxie, Sableye, or Smeargle? I can foresee some frustration level issues with early game consistency with the list as is. ( LegendCallerL = 2 Guru Points )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  7. Mama_Luigi

    Mama_Luigi New Member

    I guess I'll go the obvious route for now, and if I can think of something more creative, I'll post that later.

    Pokemon: 27
    4 Spiritomb (AR)
    4-3-4 Charizard (AR)
    2-1-2 Typhlosion prime
    2-2 Ninetails (GS/CoL)
    1 Unown q
    1 Uxie
    1 Azelf

    Energy: 13
    9 Fire
    4 Call

    T/S/S: 20
    4 Pokemon Collector
    3 Bebe's Search
    4 Rare Candy
    3 Expert Belt
    3 Broken Time-Space
    2 Warp point
    1 Luxury Ball

    Charizard is your main attacker. Using Ninetails to dump energy and draw, and typhlosion to put that energy on your charizard, you can start hitting for heavy damage quickly and consistently. This was a hard list for me to make, as I dislike charizard a lot, but it's a solid deck with a nice Vilegar matchup, but unforunetly loses to Gyarados. You're going to want as many fire pokemon on your bench as possible, and swarm with Zard.

    Thank you for submitting "the obvious" list suggestion. I'm not sure if two stage 2s with 1 uxie and 1 azelf is obvious , but the premise of Charizard AR and TyphlosionPrime is good. That list may not perform well, but you gave the reader a start. Thanks. ( Mama_Luigi - 1 Guru Point )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  8. GameStoreGrump

    GameStoreGrump New Member

    This deck uses Typlosion Prime as the main attacker, and is centered around controlling your opponent's energy.


    3 : Typlosion Prime : HS
    2 : Quilava : HS
    3 : Cydaquil : HS
    3 : Nidoqueen : RR
    2 : Nidorina : RR
    3 : Nidoran (Female) : TM
    4 : Sableye : SF

    Total: 20


    4 : Bebe's Search : RR
    2 : Pokemon Collector : HS
    4 : Lost Remover : CL
    4 : Pokemon Reversal : HS
    4 ; Pokemon Circulator : PL
    4 : Junk Arm : TM
    4 : Rare Candy : UL

    Total : 26


    14 : Fire Energy


    The idea behind this is to maintain control on your opponent's energy.

    Typlosion Prime is the main attacker. Using his Pokepower and Attack, Discard and energy on Typlosion and the Defeding Pokemon. Next turn use his power to bring the energy back, and use Nidoqueen's power to heal any damage inflicted on him by his power and other attacks.

    Use Lost Remover to remove any special energies placed during his turn. Pokemon Reversal and Pokemon Circulator are included to keep the opponent from storing energy on their bench, forcing them to bring their Pokemon forward.

    Obvious counter to this build it Dig Well Blastoise. Way too much energy coming in each turn to keep up, and being water type doesn't help either.

    There's ALOT of non-search trainers and very few basic pokemon, and NO call energy in there. You can easily get donked with this list (or just get a hand full of bad-start trainers - i.e. Reversal, Rare Candy, Lost Remover, Junk Arm. The premise of controlling energy is OK, but how many decks will really be slowed down if you discard special energy? GDos, Gengar, and MewPrime would run over you pretty hard here. (in theory of course). Nevertheless, the concept of keeping their energy in their discard while reloading your own is kinda hott. So, you get a point for that! Thanks for sharing your idea with others! ( GameStoreGrump = 1 Guru Point )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2011
  9. Phazon Elite

    Phazon Elite New Member

    I opted for more of a deck-milling approach with Magmortar.

    Pokemon: 21
    4 Magmar TM
    3 Magmortar TM
    2 Cyndaquil
    2 Quilava
    2 Typhlosion
    4 Vulpix
    2 Ninetales
    1 Chansey
    1 Blissey PL
    1 Azelf LA

    NRG: 12
    12 Fire

    TSS: 19
    3 Bebe's Search
    4 Twins
    3 Pokemon Collector
    4 Pokemon Communication
    1 Luxury Ball
    3 Broken Time Space
    1 Palmer's Contribution

    That's 52 cards, so you have room to add techs as you wish.

    Yeah this is also just something off the top of my head that I kinda threw out there.

    Very cool idea. I like the idea of using twins in the list as you sacrifice Mags for milling. Would be an interesting play with disruption built into this somewhere. Night Maintenance would really help this idea because you could just recover and mill with a vengence. The problem is getting the mill to be effective IF the other player gets something up and starts chopping down Magmorters (i.e. Gyrarados or Kingdra!). VERY fun idea nevertheless. Thank you for dropping in and contributing! ( Phazon Elite - 1 Guru Point )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2011
  10. Elite_4_Allen

    Elite_4_Allen New Member

    Nidoqueen is a great helper with typhlosion's power.

    4-3-4 Typlosion
    2-1-2 Nidoqueen
    3-1 Uxie
    4 unown R

    4 bebe's search
    3 pokemon collector
    4 pokedex
    4 super scoop up
    2 expert belt
    2 rare candy
    2 Broken time space
    1 luxury ball
    2 twins

    6 fire energy
    2 psychic energy
    2 warp energy
    2 rescue energy.

    Tank , Heal, and POUND eh? This isn't a bad list to hand over to a Junior or new/weak senior! It has a stupid-fast speed draw engine and a the scoops + Nidoqueen would be problematic for the opponent. I see zero recovery in there though, so a bad start could really put you behind ( granted you don't draw into one of those 2 twins ). Nice Speed approach to the double stage 2 deck. Surprised you didn't toss in a couple of cyclones to push back that Spiritomb? ( 2 Guru Points - Elite 4 Allen )
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2011
  11. Nugget_

    Nugget_ Member

    4-3-3-1 Flygon X
    2-1-2 Thpylosion Prime
    4 Spritomb Ar
    2-2 Nintelails Platinum-Gs/CL(whichever fits your fancy)
    2 Uxie
    1 Azelf

    4 Collector
    4 Bebe's
    4 Candy
    3 BTS
    2 Twins
    2 Comm
    1 Palmer

    5 fire
    4 Call
    4 DCE

    I'll give more detail after my essay.

    You never returned to explain it. ( no points. Sorry man)
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2011
  12. Dual_Draw

    Dual_Draw New Member

    4 Cyndaquil HS
    2 Quilava HS/CL
    3 Typhlosion Prime
    1 Typhlosion CL
    4 Vulpix SH (or PL 102)
    3 Ninetails HS/CL
    2 Chinchou UL
    2 Lanturn Prime UL
    1 Unown Q MD
    1 Entei/Raikou LEGEND UL (ERL) or Rayquaza/Deoxys LEGEND UD (RDL)
    1 Entei/Raikou LEGEND UL (ERL) or Rayquaza/Deoxys LEGEND UD (RDL)

    4 Pokemon Collector
    3 Bebe’s Search
    2 Judge
    2 Fishermen
    1 Palmer’s Contribution
    3 Rare Candy
    3 Pokemon Communication
    1 Luxury Ball
    1 Expert Belt
    1 VS Seeker

    12 Fire
    3 Lightning

    Lanturn is such a great partner for Typhlosion, there is obvious Synergy with Afterburner and Powerful Spark. In addition, not only does Lanturn provide a Lightning typing for Gyarados and Tricky Water Type Match Ups, it can also provide a Water Typing against Charizards, Mirrors as well as Donphans and other Fire Types. Ideally, you'll want to start with Vulpix SH (Who you can find in the Platinum set), and use "Find Wildfire" to immediately pull out Fire Energies from your deck, Vulpix also evolves into the central draw power for this deck in Ninetails, which conveniently uses Fire Energies (see "Find Wildfire") through it's Poke-Power "Roast Reveal" which allows the discard of a Fire Energy to draw 3 cards. If you can't find any Vulpix SH because of their rarity, the other Vulpix from Platinum works just as well, just watch out how much energy you use up early game.

    From the moment you're able to get a Typhlosion Prime onto the field, you'll notice a couple of options open up for you. You can start disrupting your opponent through the use of Judge and Typhlosion Primes "Flare Destroyer" to limit their energy options. You can also use either Typhlosion CL/HS or Lanturn Prime to hit for huge amounts of damage (Lanturn is capped at a total of 190 damage before Expert Belt and Weakness). As mentioned before Lanturn covers types that the Typhlosion line normally can't, which is a great service to the deck as the deck normally struggles with Water Pokemon. Finally, both ERL or RDL add things to Typhlosion that it can't normally do. ERL is able to take a lot of prizes quickly through "Thunder Fall" but also provides a great 90 for 2 attack, "Detonation Spin", which is easy to set up. RDL takes a bit more energy but is able to take an extra prize for each KO it takes through it's Poke-Body "Space Virus". Both are great and ending games when your energy starts to fade, and RDL provides an extra two types, despite weakness to those same types.

    Avoid saying things like "Obvious Synergy." Instead just explain the synergy. It makes you look less lazy and it enhances the usefulness of your post. I really appreciate how you offered up so many options within the same deck idea. I think the list you've given is a great place to start with this idea. You have drawpower, you have enough supporters to keep the deck from stalling out badly, you attempted to speed along the build with some trainers like RareCandy and Pokemon Comm. There's alot of pokes getting in each other's way there, but the list has some fun stuff going on for anyone who wants to give it a whirl. Thanks for sharing ( Dual_Draw = 2 Guru points )
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2011
  13. flash2351

    flash2351 New Member

    Eh, are we allowed to comment on the decks before us? Anw, heres a few things i would recommend to the decklists above mine.

    @gallade: I think your deck definitely needs an azelf lv x to get rid of weakness. One of the most crippling things abt the newer legends is the dual weakness. As RDL stands on its own, garchomp can d-rush it for 2 prizes easily.

    @phazon: how does heatran lv x sound for your deck? It helps a lot when u flipped the cursed tails for your top burner.

    @those with nidoqueen variants: Have you guys considered this guy before? Lopunny Its stackable and helps ensure that there is energy in your discard pile too.

    Anw, now onto my decklist. Typhlosion is a great pokemon to be sure, but what it lacks is a viable partner. Fire pokemon has really bad support and attackers imo, with the exception of ninetails. So i decided to pair typhlosion with the most unorthodox partner ever, ho-oh legend =D.

    2-1-2 typhlosion prime
    2-2 ninetales
    2 smeargle
    1 unown q
    1 uxie
    2-2 ho-oh legend
    1 dialga
    1 azelf

    19 pokemon

    1 vs seeker
    2 expert belts
    2 legend box
    2 lookers
    2 junk arm
    2 indigo plateau
    2 SSU
    2 seeker
    3 rare candies
    3 collector
    3 comms
    3 bebe

    25 T/S/S

    4 double colourless energy
    10 fire energy

    14 energy

    Ok, so onto the card choice for this deck:

    Typhlosion prime: This guy is the backbone of your deck. It allows you to power up your ho-oh fast and allows it to keep attacking without energy investments, allowing you to power up your bench.

    Ninetales: This guy is your mid to late game drawpower, allowing you to mantain a constantly large hand =D. For vulpix, i would recommend either the shiny one or this one

    Smeargle: This guy is your preferred starter and he helps you set up fast, especially if you manage to nab a collector t1 using potrait

    Unown Q: Free retreat for your smeargle =D.

    Uxie: This guy is your early game drawpower before your ninetales is set up.

    Ho-Oh Legend: This is your main attacker. His poke-body allows you to abuse dce for energy acceleration and with a monstrous 140 hp, that can be boosted to 190 hp with indigo plateau and expert belt, your opponent will have a hard time killing it (with the exception of g-dos =()

    Dialga: I believe most ppl are scratching their head and wondering what dialga is doing in this deck. This dialga is played tgt with legend box. After your ho-oh legend gets knocked out (for one prize only xD), you can put dialga down, use his power reverse time so as to put both halves of a legend on top of your deck together with 1 fire energy. After which you drop the legend box, place the legend down with a fire energy, hopefully hitting a second energy in the next 7 cards, if not, attach a dce from your hand and after-burn the last energy. You can then continue attacking with your ho-oh =D.

    The t/s/s line for this deck is pretty standard, with only a high SSU/seeker count to allow you to re-use your dialga. There isnt any warp point/warp energy simply cause u can easily afterburn the energy for retreating.

    The deck's strategy:

    You should aim to start with either vulpix or smeargle and start setting up via re-heat, find wildfire or potraiting. Get out your ninetales first for drawpower and set up your ho-oh next. Typhlosion should be the last out as it serves to allow you to constantly attack rather than for set up. After your typhlosion is out, you can set up your second ho-oh and retreat&seeker/SSU your active if needed. Dialga is there for recovery as i pointed out before.

    Points to note for this deck:

    This deck has no way to fight gdos. So if your meta is flooded with gdos, DUN use this deck lol. I feel that this deck has a favourable matchup vs machamp, donphan, diaglachomp, even with luxchomp, slightly unfavourable vs vilegar, and highly unfavourable vs gdos.

    Dun leave dialga out on your bench if you are playing against luxchomp. It is the best bright-look bait ever. When playing against luxchomp and they knock out your ho-oh, drop dialga, get the stuff u need,then seeker/SSU it back up.

    Against SFchamp, dun send out your ho-oh legend as they will simply take it out. Use your typhlosion to attack in this case. Most machamp decks run low energy count so destroying their energy means they wont be able to rage/champ buster u anytime soon.

    Against vilegar, u can tech in a regice to try to break the tomb lock and spam your trainers asap, otherwise, keep discarding your trainers via regimove. Dun roast reveal too often and keep your hand size small.

    Against dialgachomp, be wary that they can shut off your pokebody so you need 4 fire on ur ho-oh to attack instead. However, u still have an advantage since they cant ohko but you can oneshot their dialgas easily.

    This is a nice, streamlined, approach to fueling a main attacker and recovering from the KO. I really like this for a Senior deck idea (I will probably suggest it to my seniors). Why did you choose to run lookers in there? Are you concerned with SP matchups, disrupting Sabeleye draws, or do you just like the ability to draw a small number in case of Gengar? At any rate, it's a pretty cool and simple strat that could be played out and adjusted for the playstyle of the user. Thank you for taking the time to share. ( flash2351 = 2 Guru Points )
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2011
  14. StormFront

    StormFront New Member

    I've decided to go for an unusual strategy, there is a fire pokemon in the B+W set with a raindance power who might make this deck more viable in future.

    I call this MillMar

    Pokemon: 23

    1 Azelf LA
    3-2-3 Typlosion(Prime)
    4-4 Magmortor TM
    2 Uxie LA
    2-2 Ninetales GS

    T/S/S: 25

    3 Bebe's Search
    4 Broken Time Space
    2 Junk Arm
    1 Luxury Ball
    2 Palmer's Contribution
    4 Pokemon Collector
    2 Pokemon Communication
    3 Rare Candy
    2 Seeker
    2 Twins

    Energy: 12

    12 Fire Energy

    Strategy - Based on the decks name, the object is to mill your opponents deck via Magmar+Magmortors first attack and using Typloshions :ppowr: to recycle and attach multiple energies to Magmortor.

    Edit: Looks like someone in this thread already thought of the same idea.

    Edit2: After testing the deck out on RS, it just doesn't work. There is not enough energy acceleration to make it work effectively, I'd like to try this idea out again in a couple of months time when the next set arrives, that way I can use fisherman to get 4 energy from the discard ,Typlosion's power combined with Ninetales to attach 5+ energy a turn.

    The idea is kinda cool, but you needed engineer's adjustments + Ninetales to discard and accel for the scheme to get beasty. Thanks for taking the time to offer up your idea though.(StormFront = 1 Guru Point )
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2011
  15. Baroness Meena

    Baroness Meena New Member

    So here goes MEGAPLOSION!!!!

    The list is as follows:

    Pokemon 24
    3 Typhlosion HS-110
    2 Quilava HS-49
    3 Cyndaquil HS-61
    1 Blissey PL-22
    1 Chansey PL-69
    1 Cherrim SF-14
    1 Cherubi SF-56
    2 Yanmega TU-98
    2 Yanma TU-84
    2 Ninetales HS-7
    2 Vulpix UL-68
    1 Azelf LA-19
    3 Spiritomb AR-32
    1 Unown Q MD-49

    Trainer/Supporter/Stadium 25
    3 Bebe's Search
    3 Pokemon Collector
    3 Seeker
    4 Judge
    4 Copycat
    1 Expert Belt
    2 Warp Point
    1 Luxury Ball
    2 VS Seeker
    1 palmers contribution

    Energy 11
    7 Fire Energy
    2 Grass Energy
    2 Rescue Energy

    This deck uses many options to play, all the components fit together like a jigsaw and can still function minus one element. There are various ways to draw cards/hand refresh, discard cards and attack.
    Allows players to discard cards not needed for the match up being played and attack energy as required. Most of the energy for the deck is fire for obvious reasons (typhlosion attachment and ninetales discard), but to cope with a poke body lock on yanmega from dialga G the grass can be attached if needed.

    Cards involved and their purpose in the deck:

    Spiritomb - to stall and get set up quick for heavy attacking.

    Cherrim - To be used on the bench to add 10 extra damage for each fire and grass pokemon attack.

    Yanmega - stage 1 to start attacking with. hand manipulation and draw power from ninetales to get same hand count as opponent and hit hard for no energy. Also helps in battles against water types.

    Blissey PL - helps heal the damage from typhlosion energy attachemnt and can help get energy in the discard pile

    Ninetails - also helps typhlosion energy attachment and draw power is useful. Allows hand disruption for opponent and then draw for 3 more.

    Typhlosion - Energy attachment from discard pile. damage is healed, cherrim increases damage.

    This was run by me briefly, but I keep reutrning to my current deck as its more fun :)

    EDIT: I'm quite enjoying these challenges... makes you really think about past decks and future decks that can work
    Nice work!!

    This is quite complicated. There is A LOT to get going here as it's, really, two deck ideas crammed into one. I can see alot of bad starts happening here unless you just ALWAYS play this deck and know exactly what you want and how to go get it. At this point, I'm not a believer of this one. Somebody may try this crazy thing and MAKE a believer out of me though! (it wouldn't be the first time) --- Thanks for taking the time. ( Baroness Meena = 1 Guru Point )
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2011

    CFOURCOLTSFAN Active Member

    I like this variant(also i KNOW this time that a similar idea was presented but it was a skeleton list and mine is different so yeah...)
    3-2-3- Typholision Prime
    3-3 Ursaring Prime
    3-3 Ninetales
    2 Uxie
    1 Chatot

    3 Bebe's
    3 Pokemon Collector
    1 Luxury Ball
    2 Expert Belt
    2 PONT
    2 Palmer's
    1 Warp Point
    3 Rare Candy
    3 BTS
    3 Pokemon Communication

    4 DCE
    11 Fire

    The strategy here is pretty basic, get Typholison and Ursraing out ASAP and then just keep attaching energies and 2HKOing things/OHKO. The list is relatively high on energies b/c it needs to be to keep up the steady stream of pokemon. It is good v. most decks b/c Ninetales is very close to a modern age claydol and the attackers have high amounts of HP for the most part. It also plays thick lines to keep the draw power going.
    V. Luxchomp- It depends on if you can survive their early game rush and they'll typically get a 1-3 prize lead but then you can come back. Also if they don't play Promocroak OR Lucario GL you are pretty much set to win.(lucario GL meaning they have to play metal energy)

    V. Gyarados-Generally difficult since you have issues KOing them easily. It's relatively even but G-Dos wins most of the time due to their superior recovery.

    V. VileGar-The list i have is relatively low on T/S/S and it is difficult for them to OHKO you.The key again is getting setup quickly and avoiding heads on fainting spell.

    V. Machamp-Not tested as much but Machamp usually wins b/c they have Type advantage on Ursaring and can OHKO Typholison too :(

    i only highlighted the important cards w/ links so if i need more to get the extra point LMK. thanks.

    yeah. I ran something like this once vs. Machamp and I just OWNED. I 6-0'd the guy which was fun because he bragged all the way to the table, DURING the match, and then looked down to realize that I was straight SMASHING everything he put in the active position. The thing is, Machamp (no machamp prime) can't do enough with one or two energies whereas you can just SMASH them if they dare touch an UrsaringPrime. Them losing the top card really hurts them too. You've given our readers a nice list to get them started. That's great. thanks. ( CFOURCOLTSFAN = 2 Guru Points )
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2011
  17. MrMeches

    MrMeches New Member

    So it is either mainstream ninetales or an interesting variant. Here is an semi-aggro version I tinkered with some time back that actually seemed promising.

    19 Pokemon
    3 Cyndaquil
    2 Quilava
    3 Typhlosion Prime

    3 Cherubi
    3 Cherrim

    2 Uxie
    1 Uxie Lv X

    1 Azelf

    1 Unown Q

    28 T/S/S <---- Trainers / Supporters / Stadiums for those newer players learning the lingo on the Gym :thumb:

    2 Pokemon Collector
    3 Bebe's Search
    4 Engineer's Adjustments
    1 Palmer's Contribution
    2 Copycat
    2 Seeker
    3 Broken Time-Space
    3 Rare Candy
    1 Luxury Ball
    3 Junk Arm
    2 Expert Belt
    2 Warp Point

    13 Energy
    4 Call
    9 :fire:

    The Strategy of this deck is to get Typhlosion up and going having Cherrim there to add the bonus +10 damage. With two Cherrim, Typhlosion can do 90 damage and energy denial. Attach an Expert Belt and you can hit the magic number of 110. For newer players who do not understand why 110 is the magic number, it is the primary number used for determining if a card has potential in the format. SP Decks, when leveled up have 110 HP and that is why it is considered the Magic Number.

    Typhlosion with Cherrim creates an interesting situation for players as they do not know to remove the damage increase provided by Cherrim or the energy denial of Typhlosion. Cherrim also allows for Healing if necessary by utilizing Salty Sweet Pollen. If the user decides to Power Typhlosion on the bench with Afterburner, they can then use Salty Sweet Pollen to remove the damage Counter.

    Uxie is used for speeding up your beginning game and allowing ot get Typhlosion up asap. The energy acceleration is essential to get things moving and hitting fast. Uxie LvX is supplemental draw and gives an alternate hitter against Psychic weak and Water decks. Unown Q allows to get the LvL X out of the active spot to save your limited draw engine.

    The T/S/S are straight forward for a setup deck. Pokemon Collector and Bebe's Search in combination with Call Energy helps get things going in the right direction and gives the player 9 outs for getting those Basics. *'Outs' are something players mention when discussing deck construction. It is important to examine how many outs are necessary for getting the deck going and allowing it to thrive.* Engineer's Adjustments are selected to get the Fire Energy discarded and it is great straight Draw. Copycat helps reduce your hand against decks using Smeargle with Portrait and Gengar decks. Seeker removes those damaged Pokemon from afterburner and then Broken Time Space allows to get them back into play quickly. rare Candy helps get things evolved faster when BTS is out of play.

    The energy count is adjustable based on play. Some use more and opt for a change in the T/S/S to allow that accomodation.

    I hope you enjoyed the concept. There might be another variant coming your way soon!


    I'm not a fan of stacking Cherrims in ANY deck. Cherrim ends up showing up and needed to attack too often. It's also ERL fodder. I see juniors use cherrim alot. There's gotta be a better use of those 6 spots. Like Ninetales? I got love for ya fish, but I'm not a fan of this list. I DO think, however, that's it's a fun upgrade for a beginner who is learning about synergy and wants to learn to build out Typhlosion. ( 1 Guru Point = Da' Fish )
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2011
  18. loudkirbyking

    loudkirbyking New Member

    Well, personally, making a decklist out here, in my opinion, is just going to have someone copy it and use it. So, allow me to approach this in a different way.

    Typhlosion Prime, 140 hp, fire type. It has a Pokepower, Afterburner, in which let's you search you discard for a :fire: energy, and attach it to one of your pokemon. It puts a damage counter on it, though. It has 1 attack, Flare Destroy, which costs :fire::fire::colorless: . 70, discard an energy on Typhlosion, and one of the foe's defending pokemon. Weakness is x2 to :water: , 2 retreat cost. Overall, it has some good and bad parts.

    It's fire type, which is good against Dialga G, Vileplume, Steelix, and Jumpluff. Also has Ninetales engine with it.
    It has a slightly above average HP, which means it'll take a Flash Impact and a Dragon Rush to KO it.
    It has a pokepower to attach energies, and if the time calls, you can use it for Power Spray bait in order to use Ninetales.

    It has 2 retreat cost, which is 2 higher then people want.
    Weakness to water=Gyarados pesterings.
    It's attack costs 3 energy

    Now, why is this card worth using? Simple, the pairings. This card can pair up with many other cards. Allow me to list a few.

    Ninetales HGSS: With it's power, it discards a fire in order to draw 3. Then you can Afterburner it onto whatever you need. You auto got draw, and easy usage on energy attachment.

    Charizard AR: With Charizard's pokebody, does an extra 10 per fire on your bench. Put some Typhlosion's on the bench, and power up Charizard with them, and it'll be sweeping.

    Magmortar TM: For every energy on it, discard a card off the top of your opponent's deck. Keep piling energies with Typhlosion, and you'll be discard, 4-5 per turn. Someone's losing cards.

    Ursaring Prime: With Typhlosion Prime's power, it activate's Ursaring Poke-body when you attach an energy to it(Damage counter and what-not). Ursaring pounds, and Typhlosion burns Dialga G in your way.

    Rayquaza LA: Wait, Rayquaza's a colorless, you might be thinking, and takes electric energies also. However, with it's pokebody, if you can flip a few heads, you can accelerate energies even faster. More energies faster=More speed=Win.

    Stark Mountain: This stadium lets you move fire energies from your pokemon to a fire pokemon. You can Afterburner something you don't mind damaged, then move it to whatever you need.

    Ambipom G: Wait, what? Ambipom G can force energies away until Typhlosion gets set up, then Typhlosion destroys the rest, so they're stuck in an energy lock. Pretty neat, huh?

    Deoxys/Rayquaza LEGEND: Attach to this guy faster, and he can hit hard, Snatching two prized per kill and blasting away, could work.

    Engineer's Adjustments: A supporter to discard an energy, draw 4. Basic idea that works like Ninetales, discard the energy, afterburner where you need it.

    Seeker/Super Scoop Up/Poketurn etc.: Pretty much any card to pick up those damaged things. Afterburner hurts, might want to heal them up.

    So, which one of these will you pair our lucky prime up with? Up to you. Each combo has it's ups and downs, but be careful how you work it. A good thing is to balance what you do, and remember, try not to overtech a deck. Although, I will go on and say, Ninetales is good to go with Typhlosion Prime, purely for the draw powers. Anything else, up to you. This card has potential, and utilizing that potential will take some time, deck work, and skill. Also depends on how you like to play it, and what techs you use.

    Well, part of the purpose of these threads is to have players come along and borrow a list and try it out. So, yeah, you called it right because that's kinda what we want. People get ideas with strategies. I appreciate the time you took to explain various cards. ( loudkirbyking = 1 Guru Point)
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2011
  19. Vegeta ss4

    Vegeta ss4 Iron Chef Leader

    I realize this deck has already been posted. But I have a slightly different trainer build, which would make this deck better late game than the previous list.

    4 Spirittomb
    4 Charmander
    2 Charmeleon
    4 Charizard
    2 Cyndaquil
    1 Quilava
    2 Typhlosion Prime
    2 Vulpix Shiny
    2 Ninetails
    1 Uxie
    1 Unown Q

    4 Collector
    3 Bebe's
    2 Twins
    2 Seeker
    1 Fisherman
    1 Palmer
    4 Rare Candy
    3 Broken Time Space
    2 Expert Belt

    11 Fire
    2 Warp

    Strategy of this deck is to power up Charizard with Typhlosion Prime by discarding fire energies via Ninetails power. Which allows you to draw card after you discard a fire. Charizard reminds me of the tremendous Beedrill that took worls. It is fast, and its 1st attack can ko many basic pokemon. Its second attack can ko basically anything in the format. Now I say its damage output can ko anything, but it has to have a pretty dominating fire benched poke, because it gets an extra 10 damage for each Fire type on your bench.

    The Cards-

    Spiritomb-This is one of the best starts we have in the game, its fast, and helps you setup any of your pokemon without wasting an energy on him. Its a card that gets easily koed, but that imo is a good thing.

    Charizard-One of the most undderated cards I've ever seen. It is also one of the few Charizards of all time that is playable. It has a high end damage output with benched fire pokemon. It has amazing HP for such a fast pokemon.

    Vulpix Shiny-This is not even a bad starter. Searching your deck for 2 fire energy for free means you can start drawing and powering up.

    Ninetails-A very solid card, allows you to draw 3 cards if you discard a fire energy. Very good card in combo with typhlosion, and an easy choice to help power up Zard via zards pokebody.

    Typhlosion Prime- This card is solid, it allows you to bring energy from the discard pile and attach it to any of your pokemon. Makes this deck easily accessible to doing high end damage. Downside is it places one damage counter on your pokemon the enerrgy is attached to.

    Twins- This is one of my favorite Supporters of all time. It is soo CLUTCH after your spiritomb gets koed. The ability to search for any 2 cards from your deck, and not show your opponent is such a big deal. Downside to this card is if you grab the prize lead, its a dead in hand card.

    Seeker-This card is right up there with Twins in terms of powerful trainers. This card not only allows a potential donk, or victory by picking up not only one of your benched pokes, but one of your opponents as well. In testing I have won via playing seeker picking up there last benched pokemon then koing with my zard for the game. It also allows as card savor, let me elaborate.
    By a simple warp energy on a charizard. You allow zard to go to your bench, and based on the speed of the deck should have another zard waiting and you simply play seeker to pick it up. Then either candy it or if it had all of the stages in hand, play them all down via Broken Time Space.

    Warp Energy- good card if you are in a bind, such as trainer lock and you can't play warp point.

    NO AZELF! It isn't needed with this deck, imo. In testing it just clogged your bench space, and since you aren't running a lot of 1 of this pokemon, you should be ok.

    All in all, this is a fun deck, a good deck, and a slightly tournament winning deck.
    It reminds me of a deck I used to use, Magmorter/Delcatty/Blaziken(A few years ago)

    -Entei & Raikou Legend(Quick ko)
    - Blaziken X(lure flame a benched Dialaga G X)

    Anyone who wants to experiment with Charizard/Typhlosion should take a look at this post. You have put a lot of thought into every spot on the list and the list is pretty plug-n-play as is. Spiritomb + Twins + Ninetales = frustrating for the opponent. I don't know how this fairs against Gengar though, but I can see this scaring SPs to death! Thank you for sharing this with the general public! ( Vegeta_ss4 = 3 Guru Points )
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2011
  20. jjkkl

    jjkkl Front Page Article Editor

    The Concept

    Typhlosion is both an energy accelerator and an energy denial card. Of the major features it carries, Typhlosion carries one attack, which minimizes its flexibility, but also carries a significant Poke-Power in energy acceleration. Two of the drawbacks of Typhlosion, however, is its mediocre (and many times hindering) retreat cost and its tendency to place a damage counter on your Pokemon. As such, we must keep in mind those issues when building Typhlosion.

    Typhlosion, I would argue, works best as an energy supporter, not an attacker. At least, from experience, that seems to be the case.

    Typhlosion + Infernape 4

    The idea of Infernape 4 and Typhlosion was originally conceived when Infernape 4 was released. Typhlosion Prime's release after the GE rotation, interestingly, solidified my willingness to work with the deck. It's role allows Infernape 4 to circumvent some of its limitations, and also exploit some as well.​

    Total Cards 60

    The Overview

    The thesis is simple: Infernape 4 Level. X is the main attacker with Typhlosion and Blissey as support, running a constant 100 damage for Fire Spin. The deck thereby aims and focuses on sustaining, maintaining and ensuring the constancy of such an attack. Because Infernape 4 runs 3 Energies (2 with an Energy Gain attached) to commit to Fire Spin, and then discards two, the focus then comes to a form of energy acceleration or an alternative attacker. Traditionally, the deck LuxApe focused on bench control and manipulation, with Infernape 4 playing the role of primary muscle. I believe, whole heartedly, that such a strategy is prudent and functionally sound, and thus must be devoted further.

    The attack Fire Spin on Infernape 4 Level. X is the primary focus of the deck, and the aim of the deck is to tank Infernape 4 and ensure and maintain a constant wave of Fire Spin to OHKO any and all threats that may come along, despite enemy power, trainer, or body locks.

    In other words, this deck will focus on creating an Infernape 4 tank that is quick, decisively destructive, and extremely versatile and manipulative. I will attempt to outline exactly how and why this is so, with a brief summary and explanation of the function of particular cards.​

    The Typhlosion Line

    The Typhlosion line, as stated earlier, will focus on the energy acceleration of the deck. The function Typhlosion plays is primarily (and, should all things remain constant and all variables are fulfilled) and only supporter. Energy Acceleration through the use of afterburner is the main asset of the card, and this energy acceleration puts Typhlosion at the top of the list because of a few reasons.

    Firstly, he is viable with this deck because it's thematically consistent: the same Pokemon type, despite the Gyarados metagame threat, allows you to run only one line of basic energy, heightening consistency into the topdeck and energy retrieval immensely.

    Secondly, he has the ability to place an energy on any Pokemon, including the bench. Conservative players may choose to wall with a Pokemon before promoting an Infernape 4 to the front lines for an attack.

    Thirdly, Typhlosion himself is not that poor of an attacker. While 70 for three energy is certainly something to scoff at (especially in a high damage, low attachment cost meta), the effect of energy denial is not. This is vital to discarding energy such as Rescue, Double Colourless and Special Metal Energies, all of which play significant roles in a variety of decks.

    Fourthly, and lastly, Typhlosion's beefy HP, at 140, is significant enough to last against a plethora of enemy threats.

    I have run the Typhlosion line at 2-2-2 because of its general flexibility: it is optimal to run a Typhlosion to maintain a consistent Fire Spin, but it is not completely the be-all and end-all should you do not have a Typhlosion to use in the first place. Running Typhlosion is still a turn and time costly endeavor, and as such proper consideration must be made when combating an opponent.

    For the most part, you will likely be only relying on the ability of 2-3 afterburners in an intensely and sufficiently difficult game. Furthermore, its larger HP, regardless of Afterburner, puts it in the range of 'fairly difficult to OHKO', giving you time.​

    Infernape 4 Line

    Infernape 4 is your main attacker, and its Level X acts as the primary muscle of the deck. As a Pokemon SP, Infernape 4 is extremely quickly and capable. It's ability to immediately be put into play and attack is a significant boost over other partners for Typhlosion. Infernape 4, as a basic at 90 HP, carries significant lasting qualities. While many players play Infernape 4 for the compatibility with Luxray GL, the card is just as capable with Typhlosion, for a myriad of reasons.

    Firstly, Infernape 4 is - with Dialga G - one of the few tankable Pokemon SPs. Tanking Infernape 4, however, requires significant support. The purpose of this combination, as a result, is to support Infernape 4. It is for this reason that Snowpoint Temple and Energy Gain exist. At 110 HP, Infernape 4 carries 130 HP with an active Snowpoint. Should you choose to attach an Expert Belt, it puts the HP up to 150. At 150 for an SP Pokemon hitting for 120 in the most optimal situation, Infernape 4 is an extremely tankable opponent.

    Secondly, Fire Spin allows you to attack for 100 for three energies (two with Energy Gain), and then discard these two energies. Afterburner cuts down the cost to 1 energy loss, and the attachment allows you to immediately follow constant Fire Spin with Fire Spin, ensuring a consistent 100 damage to an opponent.

    Thirdly, the attack Split Bomb is a powerful spread move that lets you soften up an opponent before attacking with a myriad of Fire Spins or High Jump kicks. This spread ability lets you exploit weaker benches and circumvent enemy tanks.

    Fourthly, Infernape 4's status as a Pokemon SP. This ensures that you cannot be exploited by Skuntank G's Poison to shut down your Intimidating Roar. Additionally, this allows you to take advantage of Poke-Turn. An infinitely handy tool, Poke-Turn allows you to consistently damage an opponent insofar as their damage output is too low. Likewise, it also allows you to take advantage of Energy Gain. This is crucial, since it allows a dual-strategy energy acceleration: should you get Power Sprayed, you may resort to the Energy Gain. Should you get trainer locked, you may rely on Afterburner. Both the Spray lock and the Trainer lock are separately viable metagame features, and therefore being prepared to counter both locks are crucial to competitive efficacy of the deck. There is only one competitive deck that may maintain both a trainer and power lock at the same time, and that is Dialga G. Dialga G's weakness, interestingly, is fire.

    Fifthly, Intimidating Roar is an absurdly handy Power. If your opponent prefers tanking, as many players do, then Intimidating Roar circumvents that by having them switch. In Vilegar decks, this is crucial as it allows you to force them to switch between another Gengar and Vileplume. While this sounds ludicrous at first, a split bomb on two Gengars sustaining 100 damage from Fire Spin each means that you take two prize cards, regardless of Fainting Spell's activation, meaning that you have profited regardless. Likewise, Intimidating roar can spell sufficiently doom for players that prefer benching and building their benches behind a Pokemon that walls. With Intimidating Roar, you can exploit both free prizes and benched Luxrays and Garchomps before they become a threat, and considering the speed of Infernape 4, it is completely possible.​

    The Blissey Line

    I have added a 1-1 Blissey Line for the obvious: Nurse Call. It allows you to discard a card to remove 2 damage counters from one of your Pokemon. Considering that Typhlosion accelerates and then places a damage counter, Nurse Call as a result allows you to remove damage. This is also crucial when considering that Infernape 4 Level. X is a SP Pokemon, and thereby traditionally has lower amounts of HP by default. Such a trade-off of HP for speed requires a support Pokemon that heals.

    Blissey is chosen specifically because of its ability to discard and then heal. This allows you to discard a Fire Energy, and then remove two damage counters on Infernape 4 or Typhlosion. It's attack, return, is handy when you are incapable of drawing into the necessary cards, and it handy in locking down against a Regice Regi-Move Power.​

    The Starters

    Of all the starters, Smeargle is the optimal one. It's Poke-Power, Portrait, gives the chance of possibly mimicking a Pokemon Collector (given the popularity of the card in the format), upon which that affords you the ability to search for a Cyndaquil, a Chansey, and an Infernape 4, or Uxie or Azelf, etc. Smeargle's 1 retreat cost, considering Afterburner, is completely tolerable due to the fact that the energy lost in retreating Smeargle becomes recycled through Afterburner regardless.

    As such, there is no need to run an Unown Q, reducing the daunting risk of starting off with Unown Q. Of the worst starter, Chansey is the most problematic due to its high retreat cost and useless attacks. If you do start with a Chansey, then walling with a Blissey and stacking your bench is the best strategy unless your opponent deploys a Garchomp. At that stage, then, going on the offensive with Blissey is an arguably prudent idea.​

    Notable Cards and Omissions

    The build, being somewhat unorthodox for a standard SP deck, focuses on a particular strategy: complete and consistent high damage output with tanking capacity. As such, this deck does not carry the micro-lock and micro-snipe facets of most SP decks. While it is unfortunate, the matter is that there is little to no room to fit in Power Spray or Garchomp consistently without compromising the efficacy of the deck. Likewise, techs like Luxray GL are welcome'd, but generally unneeded: Infernape 4, even against Gyarados, is capable of trading blows and taking prize cards due to the combination of Intimidating Roar and Fire Spin. Of the standard list, some of the most important questions and card insertions that must be answered are:​

    • Why no Rare Candy? The deck focuses on accelerating as fast as possible under the presumption that you are under the worst situation possible. Proper Deckbuilding must always consider the lowest common denominator of performance. As such, a benched Vileplume is more dangerous to the efficacy of the deck than an active Dialga G with constant Deafan muscle. Rare Candy is omitted for the more flexible and less easily locked Broken Time Space. As a Stadium, BTS carries significant advantages over Rare Candy in this situation as you must presume that your opponent will attempt to lock you, and considering the number of decks running Spiritomb, the chances are extremely high.

    • Why no Power Spray? Two main reasons: Power Spray hinders your opponent, but does not stop them. Effectively aggressive decks will usually have multiple venues of attack, so Power Spray does little to stop the tide. Furthermore, the focus of this deck is to ensure the long life of a continuous 100. Secondly, the main threat - Gyarados - runs minimal Powers anyways. Power Spray's efficacy against Infernape 4's biggest threat, therefore, is poor, at best.

    • Expert Belt? Expert Belt is used primarily for extra damage output. When you have a Typhlosion set up, you will rely less and less on Energy Gain to cut the difference of energy. As such, you may choose and opt for higher damage output. Considering Crobat G, you may be hitting from 40 to 130 consistently with an attached Expert Belt and Crobat G.

    • Why two Snowpoints? Snowpoint is crucial to tanking Infernape 4, as SP pokemon have limited abilities to tank. Therefore, you must always assume, considering Murphy's Law and your opponent's competency, that you will be denied access to one of them at some time in the game. Snowpoints are also good counters to Gyarados decks that naturally benefit from constant Broken Time Spaces, and can be instrumental in lengthening the wellbeing of your Infernape 4s.

    • Why the thin Supporter Line? Largely because of Cyrus. Cyrus' Conspiracy allows you to search, and therefore customize, your hand. Therefore, considering the flexibility of Cyrus' Conspiracy, you may only need 1-2 Supporters the entire time. A single Pokemon Collector may last you the entire gain if you play carefully and wisely, and as such, I have minimized the supporter line. Ultimately, remember that this is a speed deck, and given the constraints of 1 Supporter-Per-Turn, you do not want to rely too much on a thick supporter line.

    • Why Three Call Energy? At first I was uneasy about the idea, until after about twenty draws in Redshark revealed that 4 Call Energy compared to 3 Call Energy was not that big of an issue. The number of times I received Call Energy when in threes was only one time less than four, and one extra draw was not a sufficient argument to convince me to take up an entirely slot in an already thin and extremely tight list.

    • No Palmer's or Flower Shop Lady? Why Aaron's? You will be recycling Energy, so the priority is getting Pokemon back into your deck. As stated earlier, Typhlosion is not needed for the deck to function, but simply a supporter to maintain the Fire Spin engine. As such, you wish to get back Infernape 4's. Under a trainer lock, Premier Ball becomes useless. With Aaron's, you have the ability to bring back Infernape 4 and Infernape 4 Level. X back into your hand to augment the expedience of your recovery.

    • I noticed that Combee... As I stated earlier, presume the worst. I would rather risk setting down a Combee and have it sniped than have no other way to retrieve a lost Cyndaquil or Infernape 4.

    • What is the main purpose of Seeker? Quite important, actually. Though, you will likely only need to use it once, if at all. The strategy is simple: Afterburner, and then afterwards use Seeker. Afterburner again. You have, if consistently discarding, recycled two Energy back onto your Infernape 4 for the cost of one. Add the attachment and an Energy Gain, and you can be nearly guaranteed two Fire Spins. Likewise, Seeker may be handy in benching opponents with small lines (2 Pokemon in play, for example, due to poor luck in draws), or using Blissey's Nurse Call twice in a row, healing your Infernape 4 or Typhlosion by 40.

    Ultimately, the deck focuses on being able to control your hand, and predict accurately what you will be receiving and how to flexibly counter your opponent. It's high-damage output and tankable ability are crucial to the wellbeing of the deck, and the flexibility, low retreat costs and speed of setup are vital in ensuring it has a lasting chance against a fearsome metagame.

    Remember, however, this is not to be taken as a top tier deck, and if I have insinuated or inferred that, then I apologise. However, the deck itself, through playthrough, has proven to be fun and fearsome at the same time, and should be considered if you have the time and patience.

    Considering Infernape 4's diminished value after LuxChomp became the dominant deck, it should not be too costly to get your hands on it.

    You have absolutely NO answer for water opponents, but the deck is well explained and interesting. The supporter/trainer line is interesting in a build that has a Stage 2 poke to bench.
    I don't see how you'd get the Typhlosion down fast enough with that decklist. I see infernape coming out without a prob, but the Typhlosion line doesn't have much encouragement to surface. I don't know. I guess I'd need to meet up with you on RedShark and see this build actually work to become a believer. ( jjkkl = 3 Guru Points )

    EDIT: ReRead this thing and kicked up the points. Very well done man. RA
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2011

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