HGSS-on Top decks
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amphy#1
New Member
I disagree. Emboar/Ram all the way. Oh, and I play switches too. That's how I won one of my biggest games last week against a Zekrom deck.
It's all in how you build and use your deck. I'm not your typical type that you think you know how to counter. I'm the X factor.
In the end, it should be the player who receives hype, not the deck he/she won with. They are the true champions.
It's all in how you build and use your deck. I'm not your typical type that you think you know how to counter. I'm the X factor.
In the end, it should be the player who receives hype, not the deck he/she won with. They are the true champions.
Porii Sames
Active Member
Can someone tell me about results of Zekrom vs. Ram variants?
emboar based varients aren't any better vs zekrom. it truly makes ZERO difference which of those 2 decks your playing vs zekrom, you lose.
amphy#1
New Member
It makes a big difference. Zekrom will have it easier against Ty builds just because of the extra damage. Also, Emboar-based builds can recover their energy better. Ty builds can only recover 1 energy at a time, and trying to get out 2 Ty's is asking for a whoopin, because you will be too slow. Can Zeckrom recover their energy? NO. They have to dig through their deck to get them after their main Zekrom w the :lightning: energies gets KO'ed. Not to mention they have to put them on Pachi then they've got to either have Shaymin in their hand, or flip for SSU. Now if they have Seeker, then that makes it easier.
Zekrom has to do all of that over, and over again just to be sucsessfull, and It's impossible to keep doing that. Of course Zekrom is going to bank on getting the donk in the beginning. That's about all it really has going for it really. If it goes past that, then you loose.
you've clearly never played the matchup. keep using bad theorymon to justify matchups you've never played. it just makes it easier for me in the long run.
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Typhlosion V Emboar
I bolded the positive sides on each arguement.
- Typhlosion has synergy with Ninetales.
- Emboar Does Not. (You can argue he does with trainers, but you lose every time)
- Typhlosion puts one damage counter on the pokemon it attaches the energy to. (yes it puts resh at 120, we know)
- Emboar does not.
- Typhlosion can pretty much guarantee an attack with Reshiram every turn.
- Emboar can only do this with the help of trainers.
- Typhlosion has a pretty good attack for three energy.
- Emboar's takes four energy and does 10 more damage without an effect.
- Typhlosion can pair with his non-prime version to hit for 120 every turn with a prime out.
- Emboar can pair with his theme deck self to hit for 150 discarding all energy, once again needing trainers for his to attack next turn.(Double Colorless Excluded)
^ i consider this one to be a tie. Heavy energy dropping for an attack to KO anyone V a consistent 120.
- Typhlosion has lower HP.(140,130)
- Emboar has higher HP.(150,150)
- Typhlosion has a retreat cost of two. Easily pairs with Dodrio UD to give free retreat to all of your pokemon.
- Emboar has a retreat cost of four. Might as well be five.
I consider Typhlosion better. So I might be biased but this all just looks about right.
I bolded the positive sides on each arguement.
- Typhlosion has synergy with Ninetales.
- Emboar Does Not. (You can argue he does with trainers, but you lose every time)
- Typhlosion puts one damage counter on the pokemon it attaches the energy to. (yes it puts resh at 120, we know)
- Emboar does not.
- Typhlosion can pretty much guarantee an attack with Reshiram every turn.
- Emboar can only do this with the help of trainers.
- Typhlosion has a pretty good attack for three energy.
- Emboar's takes four energy and does 10 more damage without an effect.
- Typhlosion can pair with his non-prime version to hit for 120 every turn with a prime out.
- Emboar can pair with his theme deck self to hit for 150 discarding all energy, once again needing trainers for his to attack next turn.(Double Colorless Excluded)
^ i consider this one to be a tie. Heavy energy dropping for an attack to KO anyone V a consistent 120.
- Typhlosion has lower HP.(140,130)
- Emboar has higher HP.(150,150)
- Typhlosion has a retreat cost of two. Easily pairs with Dodrio UD to give free retreat to all of your pokemon.
- Emboar has a retreat cost of four. Might as well be five.
I consider Typhlosion better. So I might be biased but this all just looks about right.
In response to these two points.
-TWO Typhlosion can pretty much gurantee an attack with Reshiram every turn.
-Emboar can only do this with the help of trainers.
->Pretty much balances in my opinion
-Typhlosion has pretty mediocre attack for three energy
-Emboar has a pretty mediocre attack for four energy
->If you're attacking with these guys you've probably already lost, and although Typhlosion has a gimmicky effect every now and again with rescues floating around, I just don't see it being game changing.
-Emboar can take advantage of Shuckle
-Typhlosion can take advantage of judge
->These two things here balance out, but I feel both are balanced pluses.
-Emboar can take full advantage of RDL as a game ender/secondary attacker.
-Typhlosion cannot.
Overall I feel like emboar is just better. I've been play testing it on red shark, and been having trouble getting typhlosion to overtake emboar on a consistent basis. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's at least what my test is giving out.
Typhlosion should outspeed Emboar every time.
And I didn't want to say "guarantees an attack every turn" because i know how people get on here.
What I meant was, if you have 2 Typhlosion out, you could attack every turn OR 1 Typhlosion and an energy in hand.
If you have Emboar or Typhlo active, you don't automatically lose. Sometimes if you start with an active cyndaquil, you can get a turn two Typhlosion going. That would be amazing in a game. Not as good as turn two Resh but games don't always go perfectly.
Shuckle+Unown Return is a good combo but i'd rather just have Ninetales going in Typhlo
Also, i'm sure Typhlo can handle charging up a RDL. Might take an extra turn but so might Emboar.
No matter what anybody says, Typhlosion Prime is easily faster and more consistant than Emboar.
I really can't see why anyone would choose otherwise. Emboar forces you to play situational trainers which ultimately slow your deck down. I just don't like it.
How the heck is it faster. THEY ARE BOTH STAGE 2'S!
Emboar is infinitely better, as that one damage counter loses mirror. This I swear.
Aron Figaro
New Member
Here's one you guys missed: Typhlosion + Slowking is a soft lock, and something I've started toying around with as having serious top tier potential.
CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
Yanmega is grass.....
Ch0ncey is Pr0
New Member
So the emboar version is running
1-2 Unown RETURN
3-4 Super scoop up
3-4 Seeker
at least 2 Energy retrieval
which can all clog up the hand early game, causing inconsistent starts. 9-12 or even more dead draws isn't very appealing, along with the slightly higher energy count you would have to run in emboar (17 or 18) vs 16. Now, you could get around this with cleffa but its still very possible to draw them right back again. Seems like you would have to get luckier with this version to play it. But if you can set it up, its explosive. Id rather go with the Typhlosion/Ninetails/Reshiram which has been testing fine against above mentioned decks like Zekrom and Reshiboar.
1-2 Unown RETURN
3-4 Super scoop up
3-4 Seeker
at least 2 Energy retrieval
which can all clog up the hand early game, causing inconsistent starts. 9-12 or even more dead draws isn't very appealing, along with the slightly higher energy count you would have to run in emboar (17 or 18) vs 16. Now, you could get around this with cleffa but its still very possible to draw them right back again. Seems like you would have to get luckier with this version to play it. But if you can set it up, its explosive. Id rather go with the Typhlosion/Ninetails/Reshiram which has been testing fine against above mentioned decks like Zekrom and Reshiboar.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
At this stage every deck is running everything.
It's needed as a counter to theorymon.
It's needed as a counter to theorymon.
Politoed666
New Member
Bad Emboar builds run Shuckle. Good ones run Ninetales. Hence, good builds are not clogging up their hands with that garbage. xD However, I will give you that even good Emboar builds need to run stuff like Retrieval, which can also cause consistency problems.
I have never seen anyone who posts as much purely to complain about theorymon as you do, dude.
Yeah, I feel like the discussions about emboar are very similar to the pre-states discussions about lostgar. Each proponent of the deck can offer a new tech to cover each problem the deck may encounter, but in order to cover each of these problems, the list needs to run upwards of 80 cards. The solution to lostgar is high junk arm counts (in a deck that shouldn't be running many, if any at all), the solution to water decks is zekrom (that can't really do anything if the water deck is feraligatr/blastoise, which I suspect will be used), the solution to the speed problem is shuckle with unown return and ssu's/seekers, the solution to the mass discarding problem is energy retrievals/fisherman. Just with this short list, the main concept of the deck is seriously stifled. It would be tough to build a functioning deck with a large stage 2 line, a large stage 1 line, a minimum of 2-4 other basic attackers, a high energy count, and any of the listed additives above.
Ch0ncey is Pr0
New Member
^^
I was just referring to the majority of people I've seen that are talking about how insanely good shuckle is. Theorymon will be theorymon, testing results will be testing results.
I was just referring to the majority of people I've seen that are talking about how insanely good shuckle is. Theorymon will be theorymon, testing results will be testing results.
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