How is PUI Doing So Far

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Broken Lizard, Sep 13, 2003.

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  1. Broken Lizard

    Broken Lizard New Member


    As a TO and judge, as well as a player, I find the current state of affairs VERY frustrating.

    We can not have a viable game if there is no clarity or consistency in key rulings. We're forced into 'winging it' and dealing with arguments instead of focusing on PLAYING.

    Decks are designed with key rulings such as this one in mind. A deck built to benefit from pure speed would gain enormously if Rare Candy allowed the normal evolution restrictions to be broken. However, if Rare Candy does not, then that same deck might not even be worth playing.

    We need timely and consistent rulings, and more than that, we need a new 'Official Premier Tournament Format'. The longer the game goes without these things, the more damage is done.

    I myself have not built any new decks in a LONG time. Format and rulings DETERMINE deck architecture. There is NO POINT in deckbuilding if the parameters are not clear.

    If this game is to grow, then we NEED these things.

    The 'Ask the Master Trainers Forum is a good start; thanks for that!

    [EDIT] Since this has nothing to do with the Rare Candy thread, I am going to split it off to a topic of its own. It is a good discussion topic. I am also going to move it to Tournaments and OP. BDS [/EDIT]
  2. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    There has been much discussion about PUI being too slow to pick up the ball from WotC, getting a format, floor rules and a mechanism to make rulings in place. While we all want things to move faster, let's take a step back and look at the big picture for a moment.

    WotC was in charge of OP until the end of August. That was about, what, two weeks ago. Let's look at what PUI has accomplished in the two weeks since they "officially" took over OP.

    1) They held a mixed format Ruby/Sapphire Challenge event (this actually happened in August). It had limited locations, but the first WotC Premier event, which was the forerunner of the STS events and was used to select players for the first Tropical Mega Battle, was only held in about a dozen locations.

    2} A second Premier event is finishing up this weekend. They doubled the number of locations, even though the events were less than a month apart!

    3) Leagues are forming and ordering their first season's kit. WotC took over 6 months to get Leagues going, but to be fair, they had to develop the concept from scratch.

    3) The Professor Program is getting started. The list is up and plans are being made to manage the program.

    4) A OP structure has been announced, listing far more types of events than we've ever had. Not to mention that we got 15+ back! Jimmer also has the floor rules in draft form.

    5) The first batch of rulings was released this week. With a means of collecting questions now in place (Ask the Master Trainers Forum}, the rulings should continue.

    6) A web site has been up for around 2 months, providing a means of communication.

    7) PUI made an appearance at the Cons this summer, doing demos and spreading the word about Pokemon to all that would listen.

    Not a bad list of accomplishments IMHO. I know many of the things just built on what WotC had started, so it was much easier to implement, but again, PUI has only taken over "officially" for two weeks. I think they are doing just fine.

    Keep up the good work PUI!!!!!

    Last edited: Sep 13, 2003
  3. Broken Lizard

    Broken Lizard New Member


    I did not intend to start a separate thread, but I can see why you've moved my post.

    I also did not mean to be passing judgment on PUI's performance. PUI has been in a tough bind, in that WotC's OP was preventing them from properly promoting their own product. They've done a nice job considering the circumstances.

    However, from the perspective 'on the ground', this transitional period has been very trying. I want nothing more than to able to announce a new OP format to my players, so that we can all recapture the excitement lost over the past months.

    You see, while the privileged few were traveling to Origins, Gen Con and FAT's, the vast majority of players have been waiting. We all know that there's going to be a new format. We all want to know what it will be so that we can begin building decks for it, and testing the metagame.

    I REALLY hope that PUI is able to make a format announcement soon. They've had quite a few months to consider and test. In the final analysis, I really don't care what format they use (though I am hoping for E-on).

    If PUI really wants to get players geared up again, all they need do is to announce the new format, and make it mandatory for the ladder league beginning in October. The casual league can continue to operate on whichever formats suit the players best.
  4. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    I'm glad you can understand why I split yout post off into a seperate topic. Now that the last weekend of Prerelease tournaments are finishing up, it would be a good idea to find out where everyone thinks we are, OP wise. Hopefully, it will also help PUI prioritize what to do next.

  5. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    PUI are doing OK as far as the USA is concerned. At least thats what it looks like from the outside.


    NO GBA tournaments outside USA
    NO pre-releases outside USA
    NO OP outside USA (its still just a promise)
    Product releases still subject to months of delay
    NO Leagues outside USA
    apparently little understanding of the market outside the USA
    precious little communication with anyone outside USA

    sorry but you get the idea...

    The Pokegym lives on the web and is INTERNATIONALLY accessible. Yet look at the posts in 'Tournaments' very little happening outside USA and very discouraging noise from those of us OUTSIDE.

    I though that one of the reasons why TPC took the license away from WotC was that they were unhappy with the decline of pokemon outside the USA. There may be lots going on behind the scenes but there is little to no visible activity on outside the USA.
  6. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    Gotta agree with NoPoke here we are SNAFU here in the UK despite being on the same WotC schedule as the US we are still waiting for info.

    And the international site is up but useless for players ...

    How are PUI doing outside the US? F minus

    Needs to work much much harder
  7. Skywolf1

    Skywolf1 New Member

    How has PUI done? Well, I would like to break this down into a table format, and from that grade on each individual point.

    I will use a Number system that corresponds to the appropriate "letter grade".

    The nomenclature of the table will be as follows:

    4 points - A
    3 points - B
    2 points - C
    1 point - D
    0 points - F

    Point #1: New Releases: Since Nintendo took the reigns back in August 2003, there have been two new releases, Ruby and Sapphire and Sandstorm. While this might consititute "overkill" the in the eyes of some, I feel that it sends a very important message to the overall player base. That message being, "Pokemon is still around, and will continue to be so, for quite some time." Was it risky? You bet. However, initial sales of Ruby and Sapphire were very promising and consumers responded by picking up product. The next set is "Sandstorm" which I feel is a very good set in its own right. New cards, new Pokemon, new attacks, and new possibilities. Again, risky? Yes. However the consensus seems to be very positive amoung players, and so I think the gamble paid off for PUI here. Final Assessment: 4 points (Grade A)

    Point #2: Timely releases of new sets: So far, I have no complaints in this area. The last two sets were either on time or early, in the case of Sandstorm. No delays getting product out, no broken promises. They promised and in this area they delivered. Final Assessment: 4 points (Grade A)

    Point #3: Attention to detail with regards to set releases (i.e. errors on cards, printing mistakes, etc). While it has been stated by a few players that there were misprinted cards in Ruby and Sapphire, I have not received any in that set, nor in the box of Sandstorm that I received yesterday for judging the event. There seems to be a noticable attention to detail with these recent sets, compared with prior sets released by the former licenseholder. It is this attention to detail, that tells me, that PUI/Nintendo want to put "quality" before "quanity" and it is showing thusfar. Final Assessment: 4 points (Grade A)

    Point #4: Game mechanics/balance: As with any set of any TCG there are going to be overly "powerful" (broken) cards. Pokemon is no exception here. This seems to be more apparent with Sandstorm than it does for Ruby and Sapphire with Psychic lines in prodominent abundance in this latest set. Trainer are few but effective. In short, there are many more USEABLE cards in this set, and far less USELESS ones. Coin flips: It seems that my prayers were answered here. This set, while still containing flips of a coin provides far fewer of these events, that in the last few sets released by the former licensee. That, with me, scores top marks, because it brings back the days of the original base set, the days when this game was dependent more on strategy and less on the flip of a coin. Final Assessment: 4 points (Grade A)

    Point #5: Organized Play: Nintendo, as many of you may or may not know, created a special division just for Organized Play for this game. They realize that OP is the fabric that holds a game together over the long term. PUI has been very open and upfront when it comes to customer feedback. They want to make sure that the players are heard and listened to. This is a good start. There have been two major events in a short time to attract players, this is another good sign. HOWEVER, there is still no coheasive format, ranking system, or rules structure in place, and truthfully I am concerned here. This needs to be addressed and NOW. I understand, that PUI/Nintendo are in the learning stages when it comes to OP. However, Pokemon's biggest competition right now, Yu-Gi-Oh, is well out of the gate, and has grabbed some of the most prominent figures in this field, and is running away. PUI, MUST do the same, if this game is going to be able to hold a coheasive player base over the long term period. Final Assessment: 2 points (Grade C)

    Point #6: International Players: I really feel for our international players. Especially those in Europe, and Ocenia. While I realize the things like this take time to implement, and an international list of distriubution partners is up now on the TCG website, much more needs to be done very quickly. Like I had stated in Point #5, Upper Deck and Yu-Gi-Oh have got a major head start here too. PUI needs to hire competent individuals that care about the game, and its future. A good choice would be Harlen for Europe. Even though I have never met the man, he seems like an ideal canditiate for the current situation in Europe now, and someone who can do something about it. This needs to happen NOW, while there still IS a Pokemon contingent internationally. Final Assessment: 1 point (Grade D)

    Point #7: Communication between PUI and the playerbase: This area, hasn't been too bad, for me personally. Everytime, I have contacted PUI, I always have gotten an response either by telephone or e-mail. This tells me, that PUI/Nintendo does care about its players, and tries to listen to their needs and concerns. I am going to give quite a bit of slack here to PUI, because of how busy they are trying to implement everything, and still having time to address player concerns. Some suggestions for the future: 1. Appoint individuals that can assist with the dissimination of information both here in the USA and abroad. 2. Weekly "chat sessions" with the "NEW" MT's regarding upcoming events, rulings questions, etc. 3. Establish a coheasive rulings body, that understands the needs of the players and the game. This body needs to be un-biased completely. Final Assessment: 3 Points (Grade B)

    Overall Assessment:

    Point 1 - 4 Points
    Point 2 - 4 Points
    Point 3 - 4 Points
    Point 4 - 4 Points
    Point 5 - 2 Points
    Point 6 - 1 Point
    Point 7 - 2 Points
    Total Points: 21 Divided By 7 = Average Score 3 Points.

    Final Grade: B

    Take Care,

  8. davechri

    davechri New Member

    Good assessment Skywolf, but I have to disagree with one point.

    First, Nintendo has already had 2 tournaments. Both have been successful and have pulled numerous retired players and new players into the game. IMO, these have been WILDLY successful, even more so than Wizards' SBZs from a pure business perspective.

    Second, the format. This hasn't been an issue so far. The first tournament was the GBA/Draft tournament. The second tournament was draft. In draft, the draft IS the format.

    I will say that if we get through October and no format has been announced, THEN it will be a problem. But I believe that the new format is going to be announced in early October.

    So I think Nintendo deserves no less than a B, and I would give them an A. The organized play so far has been very, very strong.
  9. GymLeaderPhil

    GymLeaderPhil New Member

    I whole heartedly agree with Skywolf's comments... and have some additional stuff I'd like to present.

    With already two sealed events and the next major event in November to also be sealed... I'm getting sick to my stomach. :( Sealed is not helping new players and it is costing a whole lot for players. This will turn away players from purchasing expansions since we're running sealed! Constructed Please!

    I'm also fearful that Nintendo will adopt the Yu-Gi-Oh system of releasing sets... five releases per year is Yu-Gi-Oh thing. Five sets in a year will kill most players off in Pokemon. We'd lose collectors and kids. Modified would be rotating too fast.

    But at least Formats and Rankings are up in early October.
  10. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    What OP???? please guys remember those less fortunate than yourselves. That also includes parts of the USA too.

    The more we hear about PUI doing great the more convinced we are that PUI has the following view:

    Frankly rest of the world, we don't give a damn​

    to misquote Rhett Buttler

    It matters not what they actually think, or claim. IF it looks like a fish, smells like a fish, and tastes like a fish. Then its a fish!

    The clarion cry from the rest of the world is..

    Where's the Beef?
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2003
  11. Gym Leader Blaine

    Gym Leader Blaine <a href="

    Here is my three cents on things. (It would have been two cents, but inflation kicked in)

    First off there has been both good and bad on this post, mostly good though. I feel for the international players, but I think that Nintendo is doing things right so far for this reason. It is true that the international community doesn’t have much right now, but I think PUI is still trying to work things out state side before they go over seas. They have made it so you guys can be added to the Professor Program, which shows me they are working on stuff. Everyone was worried when we first heard that announcement at the first of this year with the changing of hands with this game, would it get worst. I think it has gotten better. PUI has had two major tournaments already, plus they have started plans this week for a third tournament later this year. They are advertising the game in magazines and I have even see TV ads for the Pokemon TGC on Cartoon Network. Umm not that I watch that channel, but they do have Justice League, plus the new Star Wars Clone Wars cartoon coming out in November. ;)

    PUI are working on things the best they can and as fast as they can. We just have to remember that we have been playing this game for over 4 years, and they have been working on it for only a couple of months. For tournaments, I think there are now more then ever was before. We used to have one or two big ones in the year, now it looks like with Challenges, Prerelease, City & State, plus the league latter we will have a ton of them, and I’m really am looking forward to them. Plus anytime I need help as a TO I can email them and get a response back within a day times. With WOTC, when I was running the SBZ I was lucky at all if I heard back from them at all.

    Over all I am really happy with the way things are and they way they are heading. I have talked with PUI OP (organized play) a couple of times, and I know they are working hard to get things going for us players. If you don’t have many leagues or any in your area it is not PUI fault. The program it set up, just the stores have not signed up yet. So go out and talk with the managers in your area, and have them sign up for leagues.

    Like I said this is just my four cents (inflation again), But I think things are going good, and are just going to get better as the days go on.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2003
  12. DaytonGymLeader

    DaytonGymLeader New Member

    Agree and disagreee. Here's some thoughts:

    1. Communication to TOs. Marginal. Some TOs did not receive any of the emailings that went out for this pre-release that included deck lists (which are a HUGE improvement over the RS deck lists, but there is quite a bit of wasted space) and the tournament software. Tournaments were scheduled on the same day with little geographic separation.

    2. Shipping. UNACCEPTABLE. It is totally UNACCEPTABLE for product to arrive a day after the event has already ran. This counts for boosters and Pre-Release stamped cards. Event locations and dates are usually known WEEKS in advance, in some cases, months. There is no excuse to OVERNIGHT product to a tournament location when the location and date have been known for that long. Also, this is a cost savings item for Nintendo.

    3. FAQs. UNACCEPTABLE. Judges have to know how to rule on cards before the event begins. Judges have to have new rules in front of them before the event begins. R&D sees the cards well in advance of the print run. These need to be pushed to folks like TC (yes, NDA time again) who can ask the pertinent questions and get the correct rulings in an FAQ document that is mailed out with the product or emailed to the TO for the event.

    4. Pricing. Marginal. The prices that TOs are being charged is ABOVE WHOLESALE for the product that they NEED to run events. In turn, we have no choice but to push this to the player. I would like to see prices for Pre-Releases in the $10-15 range. This is under what a Pre-Release in any other game costs, but this game is geared towards a younger crowd.

    5. International. UNACCEPTABLE. I know OP is still fledgling, but it's got to happen everywhere or it's gonna flop.

    6. Domestic OP. Needs Improvement/Acceptable. It is Needs Improvement because of 1-4. Leagues are Excellent. More Professors need to get involved in obtaining League Locations and running Leagues.

    Don't get me wrong. Quite a bit of progress has been made. There is still a LONG way to go, with a short time to get there before major competition for players happens.
  13. League Leader Terry

    League Leader Terry New Member

    Above wholesale? How much did the TOs have to pay to get the pre-release and how many packs did it come with for each deck? $20 for a pre-release sounds good to me, but then I remembered that Pokemon decks are only $10.
  14. SD PokeMom

    SD PokeMom Mod Supervisor Staff Member

    The newer theme decks seem to be retailing for $11-$12 now. Considering that 6 boosters @ $3.29 each = $19.74...$20 seemed fair to me for the prerelease...

  15. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    How has PUI done? Well, I would like to break this down into a table format, and from that grade on each individual point.

    I will use a Number system that corresponds to the appropriate "letter grade".

    The nomenclature of the table will be as follows:

    4 points - A
    3 points - B
    2 points - C
    1 point - D
    0 points - F

    Okay let's use Marsh's scoring system and points to give you a UK view...

    Point #1: New Releases: Since Nintendo took the reigns back in August 2003, there has been one new release Ruby and Sapphire. And that was weeks late getting to us..

    We keep hearing about Sandstorm and Pre-release tourneys and most of us have at some point grey imported while we wait for the official card set. I wonder how many extra sales the US got from Grey Importers in the rest of the world?

    Assessment: 1 point (Grade D) we have had a set but feel very second class when we see the US getting further and further ahead of the game.. Resentment is the only outcome here.

    Point #2: Timely releases of new sets: So far, I have never known a set released on the date it was in the US here in the UK and I have never known a set to be released on the original date quoted by the distributors.. currently Sandstorm is NEXT WEEK as a release date.. that is every time you ring it's NEXT WEEK..

    Assessment: 0 points (Grade F)

    Point #3: Attention to detail with regards to set releases (i.e. errors on cards, printing mistakes, etc). Errors on cards mmm well certainly some iffy templating and of course the too easy to get EX Pokemon in the first printing.

    Assessment: 3 points (Grade B)

    Point #4: Game mechanics/balance: BBPs are back with a vengence and maybe the balance has shifted... depends now on the format they are played in too.

    Final Assessment: 2 points (Grade C)

    Point #5: Organized Play: From here it is USA okay and rest of the world... What OP?

    Assessment: 0 points (Grade F)

    Point #6: International Players: Site updated once in 2 months still no link to existing leagues and still no support. Promises of things to come but maybe too late for most.

    Assessment: 0 point (Grade F)

    Point #7: Communication between PUI and the international playerbase: Terrible, up to a point around a week or so ago for me, I have now spoken with Dave Schwimmer and emails are now being answered.

    Assessment: 2 Points (Grade C)

    Overall Assessment:

    Point 1 - 1 Points (Grade D)
    Point 2 - 0 Points (Grade F)
    Point 3 - 3 Points (Grade B)
    Point 4 - 2 Points (Grade C)
    Point 5 - 0 Points (Grade F)
    Point 6 - 0 Point (Grade F)
    Point 7 - 2 Points (Grade C)
    Total Points: 8 Divided By 7 = Average Score 1 Points (rounded down from 1.14).

    Final Grade: D

    Must try a lot harder outside the US... as I said to Dave it's now about delivery...
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2003
  16. Dragonite

    Dragonite New Member

    I have always considered Pokemon as a great family oriented game. While $20 for a pre-release is not too bad, you have to consider the cost can be prohibitive for families that have more than 2 players at $20 per. What would be nice is if the next event will be draft and cost is $20, why not provide a sealed deck and some booster packs for that one.
  17. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    $20 too expensive. LOL

    I know, why not hold pre-releases where the player base would be queuing at the doors for product at such a cheap price.

    20 euros for 6 packs+prizes. Only in my wildest dreams
  18. Skywolf1

    Skywolf1 New Member


    What I would do is e-mail your assessment to Jimmer Sivertsen and Dave Schwimmer. This is a accurate "report card" of the overall international situation according to what I have heard, and they NEED to see it!

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2003
  19. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    PUI already know what we think of there performance outside the USA.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2003
  20. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    Trythe following...

    Assume you are a player and want to locate a league to play at. You will find that there is apparently NOTHING outside the USA/Canada.

    Try to find out where to buy the product outside the USA..

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