How nice to see that there is honor and consideration for others nowadays...=/

[Sensei]

Well,you don`t choose a deformity...

But since you are talking about a pregnancy,I think that your way of thinking on this is just not right.By your way of thinking,you are punishing a woman who chooses to have a child.And by making that choice,that my friend,is something special.Never disregard the importance of a child or a "child to be".After all,it`s each and every one of us at one point in time.

`Sensei

 

[UncleBob]

Well,you don`t choose a deformity...

But since you are talking about a pregnancy,I think that your way of thinking on this is just not right.By your way of thinking,you are punishing a woman who chooses to have a child.And by making that choice,that my friend,is something special.Never disregard the importance of a child or a "child to be".After all,it`s each and every one of us at one point in time.

`Sensei

You're not punishing her. You are simply not giving her special treatment. By giving her special treatment, you're punishing every else who isn't pregnant.

 

[yoshi1001]

"Well,you don`t choose a deformity..."

Unless you're a masochist.

On a more serious note, I feel that in some cases people who make certain choices have a right to a certain amount of help. Whether this is included I'm not sure, but just because people make choices doesn't mean they have to be responsible for all effects of them.

 

[Maverick Hunter Zero]

Which, coincidentally, is the basis of communism! Everyone's equal!

And history shows that it doesn't precisely work very well.

*Cough* Anyway, so why shouldn't Pregnant woman be treated special? They've taken on a massive burden for (Almost %100 of the time) unselfish reasons, for the purpose of bringing another life into the world. You're treating this like woman decide to have children for purely selfish reasons, and they SHOULD therefor suffer.

You're doing a NICE THING for a pregnant woman. Not punishing everyone else. This isn't completely raising the standard of treatment for pregnant woman over that of everyone else, it's doing a small kindness.

 

[UncleBob]

Which, coincidentally, is the basis of communism! Everyone's equal!

And history shows that it doesn't precisely work very well.

*Cough* Anyway, so why shouldn't Pregnant woman be treated special? They've taken on a massive burden for (Almost %100 of the time) unselfish reasons, for the purpose of bringing another life into the world. You're treating this like woman decide to have children for purely selfish reasons, and they SHOULD therefor suffer.

You're doing a NICE THING for a pregnant woman. Not punishing everyone else. This isn't completely raising the standard of treatment for pregnant woman over that of everyone else, it's doing a small kindness.

But you *are* punishing everyone else. You're saying "You can't park in this nice, convient, close parking spot because *you* are not pregnant and therefore are not special enough."

And it's not a matter of doing a "nice thing" for pregnant women, it's a matter of being "forced" (not really, as there is no punishment for parking in such spaces) into doing said act. Why doesn't everyone here who is not pregnant or handicapped start parking in the space that is absolutly the farthest from the entrance of wherever their destination is so that pregnant, handicapped, obese, sick, or whomever that is "more deserving" of the closer spots can have those spots? If you're so concerned about people who "need" special (i.e.; closer) parking, then from now on, don't park anywhere near the building you're going in and leave all those parking spaces for everyone else who *need* them.

It's the difference between me choosing to give money to St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital, a charity that I approve of and being *forced* to give money out of my paycheck to whomever feels like taking advantage of it.

 

[Maverick Hunter Zero]

That's just it though, this isn't a law. No one forces you not to take those spaces. They can't stop you from taking them. It's more of a request, they can't do anything if you say no.

But this IS the point of Pokemom's post. You're looking at it from the selfish point of view where YOU'RE being punished, it's not helping out a pregnant woman, it's YOU being forced to do extra work. It's the exact OPPOSITE for those arguing against. Both points of views ARE technically correct, I won't argue that. (Anymore anyway.) But one is looking at it like a form of kindness and charity, the other view is looking at it with the "ME" view that Pokemom was pointing out.

 

[yoshi1001]

"And it's not a matter of doing a "nice thing" for pregnant women, it's a matter of being "forced" (not really, as there is no punishment for parking in such spaces) into doing said act. Why doesn't everyone here who is not pregnant or handicapped start parking in the space that is absolutly the farthest from the entrance of wherever their destination is so that pregnant, handicapped, obese, sick, or whomever that is "more deserving" of the closer spots can have those spots? If you're so concerned about people who "need" special (i.e.; closer) parking, then from now on, don't park anywhere near the building you're going in and leave all those parking spaces for everyone else who *need* them."

But then a majority of the people involved have to agree with the procedure if there's even somewhat significant dissent, the whole thing doesn't work, even if most of the people want to help out.

"That's just it though, this isn't a law. No one forces you not to take those spaces. They can't stop you from taking them. It's more of a request, they can't do anything if you say no."

Well it is private property. I'm sure the owners can do something if they find out you're using the space inappropriately.

 

[Sensei]

You're not punishing her. You are simply not giving her special treatment. By giving her special treatment, you're punishing every else who isn't pregnant.

So,we (as anyone that is not pregnant with a special gift of life) who are fully capable of walking a tad more are being "punished" because we can`t have one or two spaces close to a store?You are going to argue `til the end of the world in your stubborn steadfastness just because someone who can use the little extra help is being given a chance to park a little closer?Respectfully,your bonkers.

Man,if that`s the worst thing in your life you have to gripe about,then consider yourself blessed.There are far worse things in this world to worry about then one or two spaces close to a store.

`Sensei

 

[UncleBob]

First, I forgot...

Which, coincidentally, is the basis of communism! Everyone's equal!

It's also the basis of the Constitution of the United States of America... (depending upon your interpetation of it, mind you) where all men are created equal...

But this IS the point of Pokemom's post. You're looking at it from the selfish point of view where YOU'RE being punished, it's not helping out a pregnant woman, it's YOU being forced to do extra work. It's the exact OPPOSITE for those arguing against. Both points of views ARE technically correct, I won't argue that. (Anymore anyway.) But one is looking at it like a form of kindness and charity, the other view is looking at it with the "ME" view that Pokemom was pointing out.

That, my friend, is not at all what I'm saying. It's not about "Me, me, me...", it's about making it fair for *everyone*. Not giving special treatment to a select few. Notice how, in my post, I never said that *I* was being punished because I'm not pregnant - I said everyone who is not pregnant is being punished.

Man,if that`s the worst thing in your life you have to gripe about,then consider yourself blessed.There are far worse things in this world to worry about then one or two spaces close to a store.

You know, there are far worse things to worry about than being a few spaces closer to a store. Which leads me to wonder why there is even a post ranting and raving about how the world is going to heck because pregnant women (who are also perfectly able to walk a few extra spaces) aren't getting special treatment...

A (small) part of my paycheck goes directly to the United Way. I donate a (small) portion of my income to St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital. I work for Wal-Mart (one of the largest contributors to charitable programs) and always go all out to raise money for the Children's Miracle Network (and our local CMN hospital, Riley's in Indy). Back when I had more free time, I used to work (Volunteer) for a program we have here in Southern Illinois called "Teen Reach" which was for at-risk children (and, hopefully in a few months, I'd like to get involved with it again, when I get out of the training program I'm in.)

My point to all of this? I sure as heck ain't no wonderful saint who should be praised and worshipped from the hill tops, but I really don't need this "You just don't give a damn about anyone but yourself" balogna that I'm getting. The fact is that I'm willing to look beyond a temporary "hardship" (because. apparently bringing a life into the world is now considered a "hardship" that makes you equal to a "handicapped" individual) and see that it's not about just doing a "nice thing" for someone, it's about creating special treatment programs for individuals based upon something that they can directly control - and about giving them special "perks" when these kinds of people would be the first to scream unjustice when someone would try to use the exact same reasoning that they get the special perks to disqualify them.

 

[Sensei]

The fact is that I'm willing to look beyond a temporary "hardship"

So,if you break your leg or do something else that is a "temporary" hardship where you have a hard time walking long distances for which they give you a temporary disability permit to park close to a store, it`s ok.But a "temporary" hardship of pregnancy where a woman has a hard time walking long distances is not ok?

I just don`t see why you have a problem with helping some people out who need help.You want to help out some by giving money to charity but you can`t give a space for a woman who is heavy with child and has difficulty walking long distances.Makes no sense to me.

Anyways,I respect that you have an opinion on something and it`s my opinion that you are wrong to feel the way that you feel in this instance.

`Sensei

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

I think UncleBob is right about more than a few things in this thread, most notable being that if the situation were reversed, then this would most likely end in a lawsuit(not the exact terms used, but that's how "discrimination" often gets dealt with).
I also think that the whole point about somebody not yet being "visibly pregnant", was that you can't tell if they should or shouldn't be allowed to use that spot.

The undisputed(mostly anyways) problem with these spots is that they have no real method of enforcement, and that means that somebody that's a Mr. nice-guy is the one who gets penalized(since an unethical person would just take the spot anyways).

Pregnancy is not(yet) legally recognized as a "handicapped" state of physical being.
Legally speaking, yes, a broken leg is more deserving of a closer spot then a "Expectant Mother".

 

[tyais]

I think in the end what it all comes down to is what is fair and what is decent.

The "fair" thing to do would be every man (and woman bearing child) for himself/theirselves. No special treatment. That's basic Kohlberg Morality stage number two: everyone gets treated the same, regardless.

However, there is always the fact that we should go beyond ourselves and what is fair to do what is decent. We have some laws (or parking spaces!) that are a statement of our society's ethics and morals. Said parking space is a statement that we are willing to give up a little effort in order to make someone's life (which is a little hellish at the moment...) a little better.

Call me a sucker for old fashion respect, but it's something that is needed in our world today.

 

[tyais]

"Yoshi, it's not "helping" when people make kids. Have you taken a look at the overpopulation problems we have now?"

But we can't just stop having kids, either.

Reminds me of the Population Bomb... a farse of a book...

Look, the honest to goodness truth is that WE, meaning the US people, aren't anywhere near close to overpopulated. Tons of uninhabited lands remains for use, our resources are nowhere near depletion, and the per capita GDP is enough that we could double our population and everyone still live a healthy life.

The trend of children per family has greatly decreased over the past 100 years.

Now if we speak in world terms, there are areas which are densely overpopulated (ie. India) and need some serious backing off of babies. However, really, there should never be a law against having kids. Most economists agree (and the patterns do show) that if we open up jobs to women in these countries and areas where overpopulation is a problem. The US two largest downward spikes in Birth Rates were during the second industrial revolution (urbanization during the early 1900s) and when women began to migrate towards the job market. With a low opportunity cost (do nothing or have kids) women choose to have and raise children. Give a bigger opportunity cost, and you'll see some results.

( .end pointless rant driven by my Econ110 class on overpopulation)

 

[jdb728]

The fact is that I'm willing to look beyond a temporary "hardship"

So,if you break your leg or do something else that is a "temporary" hardship where you have a hard time walking long distances for which they give you a temporary disability permit to park close to a store, it`s ok.But a "temporary" hardship of pregnancy where a woman has a hard time walking long distances is not ok?

If a pregant women has a harder time doin' things then a handicapped person, then I'm sure they wouldn't have any trouble gettin' a temporary permit.

I just don`t see why you have a problem with helping some people out who need help.You want to help out some by giving money to charity but you can`t give a space for a woman who is heavy with child and has difficulty walking long distances.Makes no sense to me.

I don't think it's "helping" that people don't like, I think it's the FACT that it's a forced niceness, for no reason other then givin' special privileges to people for their own choices(unlike givin' money to charities, where it's just a very nice thing to do, but your not required to).

Anyways,I respect that you have an opinion on something and it`s my opinion that you are wrong to feel the way that you feel in this instance.

`Sensei

I, and obviously some other people, think you're wrong to think that any body who makes a choice to do somethin' that could make some things a little harder for them to do, should get special treatment.

So,we (as anyone that is not pregnant with a special gift of life) who are fully capable of walking a tad more are being "punished" because we can`t have one or two spaces close to a store?You are going to argue `til the end of the world in your stubborn steadfastness just because someone who can use the little extra help is being given a chance to park a little closer?

I could use a "little extra help" when I'm not feeling too well, does that mean I should get special treatment(such as closer parking spots)?


I agree with almost everything(if not everything) that UncleBob has posted here.

I don't understand why it's alright for a pregnant Women to get special treatment because of the choice that they made in the first place, meanwhile it's not ok for some average guy to get a "Sore Back" parking spot since he slouched for quite a while(I mean, both are self choices that make every day tasks a little harder)?

I also like the point Jeremy Badeaux brought up, (without anyway to enforce it)this does nothing more then penalize the nice guys.

Call me a sucker for old fashion respect, but it's something that is needed in our world today.

Yes, respect is needed(greatly IMO), but I don't think forcing it's gonna make eerybody be polite.

 

[UncleBob]

I'm already going to be late for work, but I wanted to commit on one particlar thing real fast (since most other points have been commented on anyway...)

Pregnancy is not(yet) legally recognized as a "handicapped" state of physical being.

I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if someone, somewhere tried to make Pregnancy into a "Disability". It'd be interesting to see what both "real" disabled people would think and how the general population would feel about calling it a "disability" to be in the state of reproduction (a later state, that is...).

 

[BJJ763]

Seems people don't like the spots reserved for a few reasons. One being that pregnant women are getting treated special and that's unfair to nonpregnant. Well no one ever said the world was fair and the fact remains other people are already getting special treatment.

Another seems to be equating pregnancy to handicapped. The only thing i see in common is a parking spot. But the handicapped ones are more plentiful and mandated. The pregnant ones are 1-3 and voluntarily. There is no enforcement of pregnancy parking, except your own social and moral values. If you feel you are being forced to be "nice" to pregnant women, you are wrong. You are forced to be "nice" to handicapped people. You do not see pregnancy parking spots everywhere yet so you are free to shop where they do not have pregnancy parking spots (just the handicapped ones). And no we do not need more bureaucracy issuing special parking spots to pregnant women. These spots are done by the stores as a marketing tool for pregnant women. Just as i can see "Elderly parking spots" becoming a reality. Oh wait i just realized another thing in common, both are medical conditions.

Others seem to think that "choice" is an issue and people should live with their choice. While i agree you made your bed, you lie in it, there is an overriding factor to personal choice - society. If someone attempts suicide, should we do nothing but say "Good-bye and good luck?" Should we help those that fail their suicide? Should we turn our collective backs on those whose chioces put them at a disadvantage? Or should, we as a society, show compassion and try to help. Where do we draw the line? Should a baby born with birth defects be abandoned to his/her family to deal with? Isn't being part of a society helping other members of that society?

So if you don't like being forced to be nice to pregnant women, park in the spot. I'm sure you can also ignore the looks of the other members of society as you get in and out of your car. Or you can do your shopping somewhere else as not all stores have pregnancy spots because they are not mandatory.

 

[Sensei]

Posted by jdb728

If a pregant women has a harder time doin' things then a handicapped person, then I'm sure they wouldn't have any trouble gettin' a temporary permit.

Some of them really should.Even though you may not realize it,some pregnant women have a harder time doing things like walking,normal day to day activities,etc.. then people given disability permits.Trust me,I have seen and known people who were able to receive disability permits that really didn`t need them.

I don't think it's "helping" that people don't like, I think it's the FACT that it's a forced niceness, for no reason other then givin' special privileges to people for their own choices(unlike givin' money to charities, where it's just a very nice thing to do, but your not required to).

It`s forced on you to not be able to park in one spot?Are you serious?You will cry and lament over the one spot?You will choose to ignore that a person who could use a little help would be appreciative that you let them park closer?It`s obvious that the few people disenting on this issue have never been pregnant and do not know what is like to be pregnant.I`d be willing to wager that your opinions would differ if you had been pregnant.

I, and obviously some other people, think you're wrong to think that any body who makes a choice to do somethin' that could make some things a little harder for them to do, should get special treatment.

Well,you can think I`m wrong all you want.We have that right.But your argument about a "choice" is half baked at best.You are literally saying that having a child and giving birth is meaningless and unimportant.

I could use a "little extra help" when I'm not feeling too well, does that mean I should get special treatment(such as closer parking spots)?

I agree with almost everything(if not everything) that UncleBob has posted here.

I don't understand why it's alright for a pregnant Women to get special treatment because of the choice that they made in the first place, meanwhile it's not ok for some average guy to get a "Sore Back" parking spot since he slouched for quite a while(I mean, both are self choices that make every day tasks a little harder)?

I also like the point Jeremy Badeaux brought up, (without anyway to enforce it)this does nothing more then penalize the nice guys.

Again,there is your "degradation" of having the miracle of a child(I hope you do realize that without pregnant women,all of the world would not be here right now...this includes YOU..). To quote BJJ:"Should we turn our collective backs on those whose choices put them at a disadvantage? Or should, we as a society, show compassion and try to help. Where do we draw the line?"Since you want to turn your back on a pregnant woman that has difficulty in doing some things,then you may as well also turn your back on everyone else who is given a helping hand.Some may have been by choice and some by fate.But overall,we are helping those who need it."Choice" is irrevelent.

`Sensei

 

[SD PokeMom]

Whoso is compassionate is everywhere beloved. By the kind and good he is prized as a friend. And at death his heart is full of peace.
~The Dhammapada

 

[jdb728]

Posted by jdb728

If a pregant women has a harder time doin' things then a handicapped person, then I'm sure they wouldn't have any trouble gettin' a temporary permit.

Some of them really should.Even though you may not realize it,some pregnant women have a harder time doing things like walking,normal day to day activities,etc.. then people given disability permits.Trust me,I have seen and known people who were able to receive disability permits that really didn`t need them.

Don't forget, I stand with the belief that you shouldn't get a permit if you don't "need" it, I'm not sayin' it's right for people to try to buse the system like that.

I don't think it's "helping" that people don't like, I think it's the FACT that it's a forced niceness, for no reason other then givin' special privileges to people for their own choices(unlike givin' money to charities, where it's just a very nice thing to do, but your not required to).

It`s forced on you to not be able to park in one spot?Are you serious?You will cry and lament over the one spot?You will choose to ignore that a person who could use a little help would be appreciative that you let them park closer?It`s obvious that the few people disenting on this issue have never been pregnant and do not know what is like to be pregnant.I`d be willing to wager that your opinions would differ if you had been pregnant.

Well, while I may have never been pregnant, and probably never will be, my mother was pregnant with me, and my bro, and she said she thought it was ridiculous, yes, a women who was pregnant, TWICE, thinks this is ridiculous.

I, and obviously some other people, think you're wrong to think that any body who makes a choice to do somethin' that could make some things a little harder for them to do, should get special treatment.

Well,you can think I`m wrong all you want.We have that right.But your argument about a "choice" is half baked at best.You are literally saying that having a child and giving birth is meaningless and unimportant.

I never said anything about "having a child and giving birth is meaningless and unimportant.", I know it's a miracle, but the point is, should we give special treatment to a select few when those select few have that condition purely because of the choice they made of their own free will?

I could use a "little extra help" when I'm not feeling too well, does that mean I should get special treatment(such as closer parking spots)?

I agree with almost everything(if not everything) that UncleBob has posted here.

I don't understand why it's alright for a pregnant Women to get special treatment because of the choice that they made in the first place, meanwhile it's not ok for some average guy to get a "Sore Back" parking spot since he slouched for quite a while(I mean, both are self choices that make every day tasks a little harder)?

I also like the point Jeremy Badeaux brought up, (without anyway to enforce it)this does nothing more then penalize the nice guys.

Again,there is your "degradation" of having the miracle of a child(I hope you do realize that without pregnant women,all of the world would not be here right now...this includes YOU..). To quote BJJ:"Should we turn our collective backs on those whose choices put them at a disadvantage? Or should, we as a society, show compassion and try to help. Where do we draw the line?"Since you want to turn your back on a pregnant woman that has difficulty in doing some things,then you may as well also turn your back on everyone else who is given a helping hand.Some may have been by choice and some by fate.But overall,we are helping those who need it."Choice" is irrevelent.

`Sensei

Again, I know it's a miracle, I'm not sayin' it's not, so please stop sayin' that I am, when I never said anything like it, I personally find it offensive when someone blatantly lies about what I said, yes, there is freedom of speech, but I don't think that applies to slander.

Seems people don't like the spots reserved for a few reasons. One being that pregnant women are getting treated special and that's unfair to nonpregnant. Well no one ever said the world was fair and the fact remains other people are already getting special treatment.

Yes, people other than pregnant women are getting special treatment, but some people get those permits because of a non-self choice had caused them to be in a lot worse condition(Like not being able to be in the sun for more than a few minutes without having major medical problems), then most people, unlike where the walk is good for pregnant women, but "they should get special treatment because of their own choice".

There is no enforcement of pregnancy parking, except your own social and moral values.

Exactly what one of the main problems are, that without enforcement, this does NOTHING more then penalize Mr. Nice Guy(so to speak).

This post was IMO
Thanks for reading.

 

[Orange Soda]

this does nothing more then penalize the nice guys.

While I can't speak for other nice guys in the world, I sure as hell don't see it as a penalty.

Especially not when it's a mere 3-4 spaces out of about 1000.