Iron Chef: Prelim Impressions/Your Input (Top Eight, Part Two)

[Rainbowgym]

Pooka - Uxie is not working in a deck with Shadow Command/Felicity/Mars.
It only works if you use an engine to lower your hand, which is not the case in my build.

Just a curious question, did you even think about Gastly might be used to obstruct a trainer based deck?
For me this challenge came down to use Uxie with trainers or obstruct and deck out slower.

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Bullados - I didn't miss the Uxie, I have a perfect deck out Uxie deck which took top 4 in a CC last Sunday (however that one didn't stay deck out but the engine is about the same as Pooka's).
And no rare candy, well not needed. I tested Dusknoir many times and with a lot of trainers to find Pokemon this way worked best.

Rare candy is good in a normal metagame with normal play, when you need to recycle Pokemon or whatever.
This challenge is not about attacking and taking prizes so reaper cloth duskull is way better.
But I know it's difficult to convince people about this, because it's unusual.

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

I cannot see how my 15 more cards of draw do not make my list significantly more consistent. (including he doesn't have Claydol). My list can barely even get a bad hand. What am I going to get? All 4 Call energies? Even then I can get Unown Rs and get going, TSD them if that's all I have etc. He has more energy, the Glaceon line, and the TS-1s, those are dead cards in terms of your speed. And not having Claydol will hurt his speed a lot too. I can pretty easily play out most of my hand with all the trainers, and then be in a perfect spot for a big draw 6 and do it again.

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And you know, I wasn't going to suggest that I could ko the Glaceon with only 4 energy in the deck, but if he gives me 1-2 turns of powers and still all my other cycle draw, I actually probably could get 3 of them out and do that. Again, it just shows that he's put a lot of cards in something that could get counter-countered. But still, the big difference in our consistency is a more important issue to me.

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Ugh, I hate no editing. I also noticed if he had played Claydol, at least his TS-1s would be a little less of a dead card.

 

[Magnechu]

Lol, what's the point of Evoluter when you don't play Claydol? Jst for Glaceon? Seems kinda weak.

 

[Leonners]

However, unlike what Leonners says, Andceo/Lia and Ross/Pooka are not tied to the hip - that is, two people aren't pure metagame, and the other two aren't pure "good list."

Sorry, I misunderstood.

Gatsu expressed much more better my point of view.

 

[andceo]

Just to express my point of view, i really do think that my deck can win almost every game if the opponent has ONLY 2 turn of powers.

If I START, i think i can get Glaceon LVX out at T3 most of the times (with 4 Call, 4 Pachi and 2 Eevee). He's having 2 turns while this happens. He cannot win in 2 turns and after it sees a Glaceon it cannot do anything.
IF my opponent start, i have 3 trainer turns, right? He has only 2. Ross himself said he can win in 3 turns of trainer. So it means that if he starts, he'll probably is going to win at T4, since he doesn't run any T1 options as Call Energy (4) while i have 8 T1 options (8). It means that if i can get a T3 Glaceon EVEN IF IT STARTS i'll start the lock before him.

This is to say that the "consistance" is not about winning in 3 turns, but is about getting a Glaceon LVX out by T3.
If my deck can do it most of the times, i think my deck is consistance because he can do the only thing he need to do. Getting a T3 Glaceon.

In this fomat, Warp Point and Cyclone are really unuseless if you want to lose 6 prizes.
This is why i think every deck which can get a T3 lock power should win all the game.

The reason i don't play Claydol is it's totally unuseful vs Mesprit.
And you have to assume that all your opponent are using Mesprit or are locking powers. I think Mesprit was a MUST in each deck before it is a Pokèmon which can stop COMPLETELY the opponent work.

Ts-01 are to have some chance to get a T2 Glaceon starting for 2nd and they increase the chance of having it T3.

If you say PT has a more consistant deck, i must say you're right. It has.
About the 15 more cards, i think there's another point...each deck should have a 4-4 Claydol and 4 Luxury to be considered very consistance, but is it really useful in a Pokèmon deck? I think the reason why usually 2-2 Claydol is played is it is ENOUGH to guarantee a good level of consistance and SPACE for many other useful cards. I thought much about my deck and as we are in a situation in which we have not to be speed 100% of times (thanks to Glaceon), we have not the danger of losing our Pokèmon (because the rules are different), i think my engine is enough to guarantee me a good level of consistance but make me earn many points in creativity and card use.
But i don't think it can win both the creative part and the card use (where the metagame factor can make the difference).

 

[Rainbowgym]

Oke I had to review the Challenge topic to see if I was really so stupid to understand it wrong.

The challenge

Rainbowgym VS Pooka: Try to lose the game via decking out.

It doesn't say you must deck out first turn or second turn, the challenge is loosing via decking out.
Decking out in turn 8 will still give you the win if you make a deck who can prevent your opponent go deck out before you do.

Universal rules (all competitors)-

-Modified format, DP-on.
-Legal deck rules still apply.
-Metagame Assumption: all opponents in this hypothetical metagame are trying to play towards the same goal as you are, in all aspects.*EX) trying to tie if you're trying to tie, make lists meant to tie/lose in a particular way, etc. In other words, everyone is trying to do the basic thing that you are.
-Metagame Assumption: losing is winning, and winning is losing - that is, since everyone is playing explicitly to lose, it is FAVORABLE for all involved to lose.*Note: this does not include the "tie the game" challenge, since their goal is to neither win nor lose, but to tie. A tie is the most desired outcome for ALL concerned if that was your challenge.

-Assumption: assume that it is favorable to either tie as quick as possible, or lose as quickly as possible.
-Creativity requirements haven't changed.
-Deck list and card use requirements vary.

So loosing is winning, what happens if one deck is blocked and cannot loose? (Unown L please) Yes the other will win no matter how much turns it takes.

in green, Lose as quickly as possible
If you adress the metagame the term "quickly as possible" will not be a turn 1or 2 deck out, because that's not possible. Quickly as possible will be turn 8 orso.
While it might look a turn 2 deck out is "quicker", what if there are enough options to prevent or even "reverse" the deck out (Mars/Unown L).

Rainbowgym VS Pooka (lose via deck-out):


-Your deck list must still be good. Just remember that here, "good" means you decking out as quickly, consistently, and reliably as possible.
-Card use is generalized into just "usage"; that is, how well does your overall build contribute to the challenge's goal?

Again quickly as possible is not the same as "it must be on turn 1".
While a trainer based deck CAN deck out turn 1, there are cards in the format preventing this, so for me Turn 1 deck out is not the standard. You need to keep the "metagame" and format in mind.

And how reliable is a normal trainer based deck against Gastly?
How reliable is the use of Dusknoir as draw with Mesprit in the format?
How long will a Mesprit stop Dusknoir against a Gastly/Unown L stopping a player decking out?
4 turns, that's all.

I think our metagame exists only out of Uxie/Mesprit/Trainer decks and Gastly/UnownL/Mars decks, there was nothing else I could see having an option. (well perhaps Gastly/Uxie/Mesprit/Unown L in 1 deck)
Now which of those has the best option to win by deck out???
A deck what can be stopped rather easy, or a deck which is much slower but will not be stopped?

What was the challenge again?
Rainbowgym VS Pooka: Try to lose the game via decking out.

So I made a deck who can deck out while stopping my opponent from decking out, and suddenly I loose the challenge because my deck can't do it fast enough? Weird.
Somehow it feels to me the focus of the challenge has been moved in our match up. From going to deck out towards going fast deck out without taking all possible obstructions into account.

@ Pooka and Magnechu
Thnkx for the positive reactions on my build, I am really happy with them.

 

[Gatsu]

Rainbowgym defintely has a point there...

Gastly + Unown L makes losing* VERY difficult for this deck....
A deck that can't lose can take all the time he wants to achieve its goal... Try to play a controll deck in Magic The Gathering.... Some decks do not do anything pro-active for 20+ turns, countering opponent's menace till he is out of gass, then slowly win with inevitability........

Just think to Rock Lock.... It was not fast at all.... but once the engine was online it was only a matter of time...
Now think of Mynx.. it had even less raw power... it was about attacking with Mew copying jinx's attack... but Pow+sniff out made opponent to play at all.....

Again this was a DECK BUILDING contest under DIFFERENT RULES.
Lia was creative and tried a metagame-controll deck instead of a boarring "i cycle throu deck as fast as i can".
His build is able to win her some more game and is CREATIVE and out of the box.... to me this is very important when deciding the winner.

A Deck should not be "beatiful". It is like playing "all fire pokemon" or "all water" cause they are of the same collors.
Or like using a deck with just Regiggas, Regice, regirock and registeel and no other pokemon cause they have a "theme".
This is not a role-player-game or a fan fiction, this i a card game. Deck are supposed to win and this contest should award creativity. Lia's deck il solid, creative, and able to win in the different metagame... i really don't see where is the problem decking out slower when your opponent can't.

Is like saying that Rock Lock was a deck worse than Zapturndos since it can't grabb prizes faster.... come on!
Rock Lock was stronger and more skill intensive than Zapturndos.

If the contest was "at the end of your second turn count the number of cards left in your deck, the player with lesser cards win" Lia's deck would be worse.

If pokemon rules were: "Sudden Death" than Zapturndos could have been better than Rock Lock.

Pelase correct if i'm wrong.




* Losing = you opponent decked.

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Rainbowgym defintely has a point there...

Gastly + Unown L makes losing* VERY difficult for this deck....
A deck that can't lose can take all the time he wants to achieve its goal... Try to play a controll deck in Magic The Gathering.... Some decks do not do anything pro-active for 20+ turns, countering opponent's menace till he is out of gass, then slowly win with inevitability........

Just think to Rock Lock.... It was not fast at all.... but once the engine was online it was only a matter of time...
Now think of Mynx.. it had even less raw power... it was about attacking with Mew copying jinx's attack... but Pow+sniff out made opponent to play at all.....

Again this was a DECK BUILDING contest under DIFFERENT RULES.
Lia was creative and tried a metagame-controll deck instead of a boarring "i cycle throu deck as fast as i can".
His build is able to win her some more game and is CREATIVE and out of the box.... to me this is very important when deciding the winner.

A Deck should not be "beatiful". It is like playing "all fire pokemon" or "all water" cause they are of the same collors.
Or like using a deck with just Regiggas, Regice, regirock and registeel and no other pokemon cause they have a "theme".
This is not a role-player-game or a fan fiction, this i a card game. Deck are supposed to win and this contest should award creativity. Lia's deck il solid, creative, and able to win in the different metagame... i really don't see where is the problem decking out slower when your opponent can't.

Is like saying that Rock Lock was a deck worse than Zapturndos since it can't grabb prizes faster.... come on!
Rock Lock was stronger and more skill intensive than Zapturndos.

If the contest was "at the end of your second turn count the number of cards left in your deck, the player with lesser cards win" Lia's deck would be worse.

If pokemon rules were: "Sudden Death", then Zapturndos could have been better than Rock Lock.

Pelase correct if i'm wrong....


The contest was about deck out.
But it is not said that you are playing alone. If it was a solitaire ,goldfish-like, kind of contest it would be ok... but you should play a deck against an opponent....
Opponent will not stay there watching you.

Sun Tsu (i hope you'll know who he is) wrote in "The Art of War" : "Even the best plan crumble when it contacts with a prepared opponent"




* Losing = you opponent decked.

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

In this fomat, Warp Point and Cyclone are really unuseless if you want to lose 6 prizes.

You can't say that. By that logic, Glaceon is useless too. Neither helps towards losing 6 prizes. Glaceon is a strictly metagame tech, it doesn't directly help your goal. Warp Points would also be a strictly metagame tech, they would be just as legitimate/illegitimate for this challenge as Glaceon in that their sole purpose is to counter stuff. Of course, 4 warp would negate your 15 card Glaceon, so there's a difference in space.

No, I didn't play Warp, or Alakazam, I chose not to focus my whole deck on the theoretical metagame arms race. I looked at it and said I could play 3 cards on Mesprit or A LOT of cards (like 15) on Glaceon or Alakazam. I definitely feel like the essence of the challenge is make the best deck that does 'blah'. The bold is make a deck that loses. Last challenge the main part was to make a good deck under new parameters (1 basic pokemon). In both I definitely believed metagame (while important) had to be secondary to the MAIN idea of the challenge.

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Also, you can't just say I just lose card use and creativity. I don't really see how yours is more creative or uses your card better. If the card is Regigigas, I have more focused on Regigigas. I thought of Glaceon as well, I think that's just as creative as Mesprits, my Unown Rs and playing a deck with only 4 energy! That is creative to me.

Anyways, Kettler hasn't even been using that scale. It seems to be about deck list and metagame.

 

[Rainbowgym]

In both I definitely believed metagame (while important) had to be secondary to the MAIN idea of the challenge.

Unless the "metagame" tech prevents you of reaching the MAIN idea of the challenge.
So beside the very obvious Mesprit your build is not prepared to face the "extreme".
Were is the Warp Point/Cyclone nrg to get you out of a Glaceon situation?

At this level of competition I expect people to go over EACH card in the format and realising it can be used, so be prepared.
If there is a single card out there which can destroy your deck, you should adress this.

You didn't do this, and Pooka didn't do it in the other challenge.
And don't say, well card XX is not going to be used, because everybody will take the obvious card YY.

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

I guess I could have played Glaceon, and Warps to counter Glaceon, and Alakazam in case they warp out my glaceon, and a 2nd Alakazam line in case they play a 2-2 regi x so I stop both sacrifices after they warp out my glaceon, and a Dark Palm Dusknoir to get rid of the 2nd Alakazam in mirror and Super Scoop Up to stay out of opponents Dark Palms. Oh right, need to throw in the Regi line after all that....

Would that have been a good deck?

 

[Rainbowgym]

I guess I could have played Glaceon, and Warps to counter Glaceon, and Alakazam in case they warp out my glaceon, and a 2nd Alakazam line in case they play a 2-2 regi x so I stop both sacrifices after they warp out my glaceon, and a Dark Palm Dusknoir to get rid of the 2nd Alakazam in mirror and Super Scoop Up to stay out of opponents Dark Palms. Oh right, need to throw in the Regi line after all that....

Would that have been a good deck?

If you could convince me you were able to get them all out, yes it would.

And after reading the write ups I am most amazed that the idea is to sacrifice Regi Lx X itself and than retrieve the Lv X.
Sorry to say but isn't that the most unlogical thing to do?
It works perfect on the bench (if no powers are blocked) so adding in something to stop powers is a no brainer.
And while setting up Glaceon needs more time, the overall effect is killing for a deck who relies on powers. Even if you can take 4 prizes before a Glaceon/Regi deck sets up, you will still loose the challenge.

Playing 3-1 Regi over 2-2 is better in this challenge?
In theory, when somebody uses 2-2 Regi 2-2-2 Glaceon, 4 Azelf, 4 Mesprit and perhaps even Unown P and Q, a deck focused only on "the challenge" with Mesprit as tech would loose.

Claiming a deck is better designed on the "challenge" and not taking into account those few very nasty Metagame cards who can destroy your "straight forward to the challenge" deck, is for me a big mistake.
We all can build a deck "straight to the challenge", but at this point of the competition it comes down to adressing the Metagame even more.

In short, a deck who can't win the challenge due to being metagamed, will still go forward in the competition.

 

[andceo]

I'm understanding you all.

My aim was to make a deck balanced out to have a DECENT setting and a DECENT power lock.
I tried many different versions and at the end i found out mine was pretty balanced in the two field.
Obviously, a deck based ALL on power lock has more power lock than mine.
Obviuosly, a deck based ALL on consistance is more consistance than mine.
But i don't think they two can be AS balanced AS i am.
I think my deck is consistance ENOUGH to win vs most of the power lock decks and can disrupt ENOUGH to win vs most of the consistance deck.
This is the question.

Consistance is a part of a deck. It can be the most important one. When i have to go to a tournament where i know 80% of the players have not the skill i have and have not a well-definied metagame, consistance is the best thing to win the tournament.
If i go to a tournament where i can predict nearly all the decks and i know i can find players way better than me, i think it would be good to sacrifice part of my consistance to have weapons which can totally defeat the opponent deck.
MewTrick had maybe more than 15 cards used for the metagame (i remember, Cursed Stone, Er2, Reversal, BF and more) but in tournaments with well-definied deck it could disrupt them all (while in a tournament with more random deck, it can have some problems vs certain kind of decks).

This is the idea which was under my deck and why i cannot understand sentences like "it wins because it has more consistance" because they don't satisfy me.
If it comes out that PT deck can react to decks as Alakazam, Gastly and Glaceon more than mine we can talk about it and find out a new item of talking.

But if "speed and consistance" makes it the BDIF, so we could play all Kingdra in our tournaments instead of playing decks like Gengar, Dusknoir, Abomasnow, Regigigas LVX which are slower and less consistance but can make it have a bad time.
This is my point of view.

Again, i think John have considered all these things in making the verdict.

 

[Magnechu]

Sacrificing Regi itself is ABSOLUTELY the best way to go. If Ross gets 3 Regigigas (normal) on the field in the first turn, second turn he can potentially have his opponent draw THREE prizes through TSD/Premier Ball/NM the single Regigigas X back and saccing stuff on the second turn! He would sac the Regi itself the first two times and keep Regi X out on the 3rd Regi. Next turn do the same thing and he can potentially lose T3! Combined with Mesprits, I don't think Ross's deck will EVER lose later than 5 turns (usually much earlier), and last I checked it's really hard to get a Stage 1 Lv. X up with no powers.

 

[Gatsu]

Sacrificing Regi itself is ABSOLUTELY the best way to go. If Ross gets 3 Regigigas (normal) on the field in the first turn, second turn he can potentially have his opponent draw THREE prizes through TSD/Premier Ball/NM the single Regigigas X back and saccing stuff on the second turn! He would sac the Regi itself the first two times and keep Regi X out on the 3rd Regi. Next turn do the same thing and he can potentially lose T3! Combined with Mesprits, I don't think Ross's deck will EVER lose later than 5 turns (usually much earlier), and last I checked it's really hard to get a Stage 1 Lv. X up with no powers.

do you read Andceo's list or after Pidgeotto's one you just decided he should win????

Open apprentice and goldfish some hands:

4 Pachirisu GE => eevee T1
2 Eevee MD => Eevee T1
2 Glaceon MD => Glaceon T1 - T2
1 Glaceon LVX = > Glaceon T2-T3
2 Uxie LA = > Draw
2 Azelf LA => any piecec prized will come out of the prizes!
1 Mesprit LA => if T1 = time walk

32
4 Roseanne’s Search => Eevee / uxie / azelf
3 Great Ball => EEvee
1 Luxury Ball => glaceon / Eevee / mespirt
2 Bebe's Search = >glaceon and Glaceon X
4 Pokedex Handy +2 (quality)
4 Felicity’s Drawing +4
4 Premier Ball => Glaceon X
4 Ts-01 Eevoluter => T1 Glaceon


Try and see.
50% (every hand with a TS1 by turn 1-2) you'll have a T2 Glaceon X
T3 glaceon X other times.....


Glacoen X active = you can't lose. Total lock of sacrifce outlet. Regigigas then simply can't can win...



Nobody replied to my long post....


Then i have to guess that Pokegym comunity thinks that Medicham EX and Mewtric were weak decks, right????
I think that 3 World's Champions and a bunch of Nationl Champions could guarantee that disruption is a nice way to win games....

Till someone proves me wrong, a list that makes opponent unable to win while winning itself (even in a longer time) is better than a list with raw power but without any way to counter opponent's strategies.....


Btw Jason Kla.'s World's list was very bad.... he played 2 windstorms... what a junk card!
Those could have been 1-1 more Claydol or 2 Pluspowers!
Windstorm do NOTHING to KO opponent's pokemons faster or to get a better setup !!!
Jason is such a n00b... i wonder why he put those Windstorm there... we was so lucky to win worlds with a 58 cards deck!*





* Let's see if someone is so stupid to respond without getting sarcasm...

 

[andceo]

Sacrificing Regi itself is ABSOLUTELY the best way to go. If Ross gets 3 Regigigas (normal) on the field in the first turn, second turn he can potentially have his opponent draw THREE prizes through TSD/Premier Ball/NM the single Regigigas X back and saccing stuff on the second turn! He would sac the Regi itself the first two times and keep Regi X out on the 3rd Regi. Next turn do the same thing and he can potentially lose T3! Combined with Mesprits, I don't think Ross's deck will EVER lose later than 5 turns (usually much earlier), and last I checked it's really hard to get a Stage 1 Lv. X up with no powers.

That's exactly what i CAN do.
Remember the strategy of my deck is to win T3 by sacrificing 3 Gigas T2 and 3 Gigas T3.
But i'll do it sometimes SLOWER because i have 9 cards (2-2-1 Glaceon and 4 TS-01) which are here to stop the powers. (Energy are here to INCREASE THE CHANCES TO HAVE T1 3 REGIGIGAS OUT EVEN IF I START and, more over, they help the Glaceon cause).

Then, you tell Ross can have 3 Regigigas out on T1. Tell me how he can if he starts!!
Compare the 2 list and tell me which one can have 3 Regigigas out on T1 most of the times.

Post as yours, sorry, they are not ("Ross as a deck which can win T3". I have too!! But i know that if i made a list like him i would have tied our game, while adding Glaceon can ensure me a better chance).

Again guys, please build my list and test it through Apprentice 20 times and then tell me how many times it will not have a Glaceon T3.

 

[Rainbowgym]

Sacrificing Regi itself is ABSOLUTELY the best way to go. If Ross gets 3 Regigigas (normal) on the field in the first turn, second turn he can potentially have his opponent draw THREE prizes through TSD/Premier Ball/NM the single Regigigas X back and saccing stuff on the second turn! He would sac the Regi itself the first two times and keep Regi X out on the 3rd Regi. Next turn do the same thing and he can potentially lose T3! Combined with Mesprits, I don't think Ross's deck will EVER lose later than 5 turns (usually much earlier), and last I checked it's really hard to get a Stage 1 Lv. X up with no powers.

I didn't look to good into this challenge, but an evil thought reached my mind.
How would such deck do against a 4 Gastly/2-2-2 Glaceon/2-2 Regigigas build?
I am still not convinced 3-1 Regigigas is the best way to go, but that's me.

 

[andceo]

That's a good point.
Gastly should have been perfect for this challenge.
I think it doesn't need Glaceon to disrupt.
Gastly-Glaceon-Gigas seems to be little difficult to play, but a straight Gigas-Gastly deck with Regigigas sacrifing itself until you can send up a Gastly to close your turn and stop the opponent trainer is a GOOD strategy.
The problem it has is it's little difficult to both stop trainer and powers...but well, Gastly guarantee you your opponent will spend 6 turns to reach the goal, so if you can do it in 4-5 you can win.

LOL, if we both win i think i must be scared about Gastly! LOL!

 

[Magnechu]

Gatsu- you bring up the point that Medicham ex/Mewtric, etc. were good decks and we should follow that same philosophy. But that isn't the point of Iron Chef! It is to create the best list possible for the challenge. Period. Unless Kettler changed the rules dramatically, that should still account for the majority of the points. Even if metagame was worth 5 points, I still think Ross would win. Ross's list is perfect, a 10/10. His metagame is at least 3/5, possibly even 4/5. The last portion of the points would be 4/5 as well as he uses Regi sooo effectively. Andceo's list would be 8/10, though very good, not nearly as consistent as Ross's. Metagame would be 5/5 no doubt and the last section probably 4/5. Ross would win by the slightest margin in my book. I don't have time to talk more, nor the desire to. Good luck to both of you-you both came up with amazing decks!

 

[andceo]

Ok Mikey, thanks for the explanation.
I think it's very clear and can be accepted.
Let's wait until the final verdict to see how John decides.

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

For the Mewtric thing, first of all I would not consider things like Reversal as tech cards, koing pokemon is part of your strategy. Glaceon adds nothing to the main strategy in this. I'd compare Glaceon more to like Crystal Shard. Jason played 2 Windstorm? Yeah, he played TWO Windstorm. Not even 4. Not 15.
Also, Mewtric could play so many of those cards because it did what it needed to do (t2 Disconnect) really really easily, and more consistency would not make it do that goal better. So since 40 damage is a little underpowered, you played some other stuff. Losing by turn 3 will NOT happen as quickly with your 9-15 more card cluttered list. Okay, maybe you can get your t3 Glaceon, but your ability to do what your decks focus is (lose in 3 turns like getting t2 40 in Mewtric) has been sacrificed for a lot of tech cards. This is a much more complicated (in that you need many cards) combo than t2 40.

For Pachirisu, Pachirisu only creates an advantage on my list if a) you start with Pachi (~40%) b) you go first (50%) and c) you start with one of your 10 energy (um, I know 12 cards is 75-80%, so I'll say 70%). Add that up, his Pachirisu (4 cards) and 6 more energy help him 14% of the time. Whether you see that as the 6 more energy is for retreating (wasted for the main idea) or he has 10 cards to help him 14% of the time, I think this was a bad choice. Now you can say he needs extra basics because he plays Glaceon, and he needs extra energy anyways for the Glaceon, but then you aren't talking about who gets Regis out quicker. So the difference in our lists of getting out Regis is DEFINITELY more than the 9 cards for Glaceon and TS-1. Because I also have 10 more cards that help me more than 14% of the time.

RainbowGym, I disagree that metagame should be the only factor as you seem to believe. Andceo imo is more correct that it's a balance. I however, think 3 tech cards is more balanced for a Pokemon deck than 15 (or 9 and bad setup choices).

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....since t1 setup is all those extra energy do in terms of the Regigigas strategy.