Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Iron Chef-ToC Top 8 (Pidgeotto Trainer VS Gymbo ex)

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Hey guys,

Merry Christmas and happy holidays. My computer at my house is down and am on a friend's house. Kettler if you decide to post another challenge over the holiday season, could you please text me and let me know my ingredient. I'll PM you my number. Thanks.

Ross, I am sorry man, you seemed bitter as I read your replies. I really just focused on taking a card with a huge flaw (double weakness to popular decks) and eliminating that factor while at the same time making the deck a little bit stronger. Sceptile's Energy Trans wasn't a huge part of the deck, just another part of the deck. Your deck is very good and creative. You're a great player and a deckbuilder anyways.

Take care everyone,

~Jim
 
I still don't believe a 3 stage 2 deck would work well at all.

Queen =/= Pidgeot in any way or fashion. It's attack isn't as effective, it's retreat isn't as nice, it's shut down by more stadiums, and it only grabs Pokemon. Pokemon =/= any card. You can suggest that Nidoqueen can help set a deck up, but when you really need to get something out of your deck that isn't a Pokemon (like a rare candy or stadium), what do you do then?

I've seen the metagame in my area. MetaNite is pretty bright here. Even then, they don't use 3 stage 2s. I haven't seen a single MetaNite that even runs Fearow to help get stuff out. Every MetaNite I've seen includes Metagross, Dragonite, and Castform (plus a few small techs here and there -- like basics).

Iron Chef isn't about real-life playability but about creativity? I've had my doubts a few times that real-life playability was not a requirement here. Especially after Dendrobatida went out to a City to test his Iron Chef Dendro-Catty deck with him and 2 other friends playing it that day. Especially when Criminal in the Top 8 posts a Swampert ex list that looks very close to what someone playing it in a tournament would run.

Theres a whole other section for Creativity, so this contest couldn't just be based around Creativity!

IMHO, the deck Ross listed would not work that well at a tournament. There are too many lines needed to setup, it's very weak to Giant Stump, it runs very low energy (for the average 3 energy attacks the deck harbors), and relies on Queen way too much. Shut down Queen and you pretty much win. Add in that Xatu does nothing to help Queen do more damage if it does need to attack.

Want to prove me wrong Ross? Play it at a city, and see how well you do. I ultimately think that is the true challenge of any Iron Chef deck, and I think it would show weither or not the deck was decent at all.

Again, I come with no disrespect, only the idea that I think the deck would flop.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

I want to include this. I've seen Iron Chef before. Two chefs are given a secret ingredient and have to use it best to make a multiple course meal for the judges. Creativity does play a role in how well the Chef does, but if the Chef tries something that just wouldn't cut it in the real world, they will get points taken off. Just because something is creative doesn't mean it should warrant points. ****, I could suggest a Sceptile ex/Metagross/Dragonite/Feraligatr deck idea, that would probably be really creative, but it just wouldn't fly once it left paper, and I wouldn't expect to get a good score for it in any competition.
 
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Of course Queen is good, Queen sets up EVERYTHING in the deck! I don't see how Metanite would shut down Queen either. =/ Trust me, if you lived up here in WA you would see why Queen is so amazing, it basicly IS Pidgeot. Pidgeot half the time was searching for pokemon to setup, that's what Queen does. Metagross decks don't need that many energy, once you get energy in the discard pile you're set! It's not like you attach from hand.
 
Gymbo, I have nothing against you or your deck. You made a great deck, a deservable winner of a deck. I was already kind of annoyed at the most playable deck =/= best iron chef deck trend going into this round. I saw some elements of that in how I was judged again, so I just decided to comment on it. It was basically nothing having to do with my opponent.
Prime, I think Sceptile ex is a terrible card to base a deck around. If you want to just test 3 different stage 2 lines though, I have ALREADY WON three city championships with 3 stage 2 lines in them. One of them being Nidoqueen which from my experience of winning those 3 city championships (and competing in 9), Nidoqueen does just as well as Pidgeot in setting up. Pidgeot has the advantage of searching for tech cards, stadiums, tools, special energies, tech supporters (briney). This is where it is better than Nidoqueen, but these play little to no role in setup. Pidgeot of course is better, but for setup, the two are VERY close, I've played Queen enough to see this. I've been playing 3 stage 2 decks all season AND have had success with them. I think that makes me a better judge of if they work or not. I've had the same low energy count as well. So I believe I have already proven you wrong on these points.
 
Oh gosh, this debate's still going on? o_O

There's a reason why I gave Ross a higher grade on the decklist section: because his list, to my subjective judge's viewpoint, was not only a quality piece of work, but more conistent than his opponent's. Yes, three stage two's work extremely well. I even made my own apprentice version of Dendrobatida's newest deck (Infinity Engine) with three stage twos/two stage ones, and it works excellently! Everybody should respect your opinion, Prime, but just test his list out more often, and you should see why it does work. Out of these sixteen players, I have yet to receive a list that does NOT work.

Like the Dendro/Grimey match, this was another insanely close one (again, maybe there should be a 200 point system for the next time a ToC is done in our lifetimes), and I was constantly unsure of who I thought did better. The twenty point system does not accurately express my viewpoint, although I am able to express it as clearly as I can within that system. After the Rokman/Gymbo match in the grinder, I figured that it was dumb to declare "ties"...there are no true ties when it comes to a subjective contest like this, so I just gotta do what I gotta do.

As for whether the more playable decks lose to the more creative ones...not necessarily. I've graded pretty dull ideas with excellent lists above awesome concepts with mediocre builds, and vice-versa. The reason why creativity/card use have made such an impact in this ToC is because of the comment in the first paragraph: we have fifteen (minus Hypno, who has fallen off Earth) of the world's BEST deckbuilders! A dozen of them are Worlds Qualifiers, two of them are trusted testing partners to other competitors, and the last one is a veteran player/Pokedad to a qualifier. My rubric usually won't have an easier way to select a winner than the creativity/card use for such a competitive lot of players.
 
That's cool Ross, if anyone can get it to work, it's you. I would like to know what deck you played that worked with with 3 stage 2's (one being Nidoqueen) because I can't think of any big deck at the moment that publically plays Nidoqueen. If you don't want to give your "secret" out, that's cool too. Personally, I've trying out a Nidoqueen line in my Flygon ex deck, and a Nidoqueen line in my Gardevior ex deck.

I still have my doubts, but I am testing and seeing how well it can truely work.

Congrats to all who participate.
 
Prime said:
I still don't believe a 3 stage 2 deck would work well at all [...] IMHO, the deck Ross listed would not work that well at a tournament. There are too many lines needed to setup, it's very weak to Giant Stump, it runs very low energy (for the average 3 energy attacks the deck harbors), and relies on Queen way too much. Shut down Queen and you pretty much win.
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That explains why Ross has been winning with his deck with 3 Stage 2 lines, and why Fulop and Levi are playing it. =/
Want to prove me wrong Ross? Play it at a city, and see how well you do. I ultimately think that is the true challenge of any Iron Chef deck, and I think it would show weither or not the deck was decent at all.
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Umm . . . he's won with something REALLY similar.
 
Flaming_Spinach said:
Oh?

You want to do it?


I include all decks that make the top2, because in any tournament, there's almost no difference in the players who make first and second. All of them should be counted.

If someone ever reported any decks to me by word-of-mouth, I'd include them. So far, that is one result.

Lastly, I don't read many reports. And few of the ones I do read include winners. The 2-3 decks this would add to the list every week would not make a significant difference.


In short, if you have a question about my methods, please CONTACT ME, don't bash me behind my back.
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How could I be bashing your "behind your back" when this is a public forum? How was I bashing you at all? I was explaining that Metanite had not, in fact, won the most CCs in the Masters division at the time (recently, though, I have gathered around eight more CC results and Metanite has pulled into first place). I had to provide reasons for that fact in order to back myself up, so I did. Although "throws them in there" and "refuses to" probably sounded condecending, I can assure you that I wasn't attacking you when I made that post.

Your comment, "Oh? Your want to do it?" is not appreciated. I have, in fact, been keeping track of the winning decks in the USA Masters' division this year, so I know what kind of work that project entails. I have not offered to help because, like Patriarch, I have done it for the Pokegym in the past, and it's just too much of a burden to get a decent-looking list together on your own. Several people volunteered to help me privately without the pressure of having to update for all the people who want a look at the complete list.

So why not post it here? Dream up your own answer to that question. Maybe I'm waiting until it's 100% complete, or maybe I'm too lazy to copy/paste the whole list. Maybe I'm an elitist and having power over others fulfills my megalomaniacal desires. It's up to you.
 
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