Legal shuffling?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by jeffrey123, Mar 16, 2011.

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  1. jeffrey123

    jeffrey123 New Member

    Not too sure if this belongs here but hopefully it does.

    If I was to 6 pile shuffle, and then 3 pile shuffle, could I take my 6 piles, combine them into 3 piles, and lets say I was playing SP, could I slip 1 luxray GL into each pile of 20 and have my opponent cut my deck to give me a greater chance at starting with one? Or is this illegal?

    I'm sorry if this sounds confusing. Thanks.
  2. Box of Fail

    Box of Fail New Member

    This is almost certainly illegal. The very premise that you want to compromise the randomness of a shuffle is illegal in itself. You should aim to fully randomize your deck when you shuffle, not to maximize your shot at a game-winning hand.
  3. jeffrey123

    jeffrey123 New Member

    Thanks. I'm trying to clarify this for states.
  4. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    Absolutely not allowed. That is where the word "random" comes in. If you were to play a lux G into each of the 3 piles, as long as you then shuffled those piles suffiently that would be OK. Of course, any oppo seeing you do this is going to riffle shuffle your deck or even pile shuffle you back.

    Last edited: Mar 16, 2011
  5. chrataxe

    chrataxe New Member

    Thats ridiculous. Of course you want to maximize your shot at a good hand. I dont think doing it thay way is the way to go about and it certainly toes the line of cheating, if not out right crossing it, but to imply that trying to improve yout opening hand is cheat is a horrible premise. What is the point of pile shuffling? To declump and give you better draws.

    Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk
  6. Box of Fail

    Box of Fail New Member

    The point of pile shuffling is to fully randomize your deck. This may work to your advantage or against it, but the reason you pile shuffle is to ensure randomness of your deck.
  7. Scubadude

    Scubadude New Member

    I am confused are you pile shuffling face up cards cause last i checked when you pile shuffle your cards are face down. Unless you are able to see your cards are you put them down then ya its stacking.
  8. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    @Scuba: You pile shuffle face down. OP asked if he could pile shuffle his other 57 cards and then insert his 3 Lux G's into a seperate pile, to "maximize" his chance of starting with one. That is improper.

  9. toxictaipan

    toxictaipan New Member

    The point of shuffling is to randomize the deck, not to give yourself a good hand.

    How about you and me play a game of heads-up Texas Hold 'em Poker? I'll shuffle, and be sure to place the Ace's every other card apart so that when I deal, you get the separating card and I get both Ace's. I'll do this on both the bottom and top of the deck just in case you decide to cut. Now put $50 on the table.

    You still cool with that?
  10. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    Just go through your deck after you shuffle to make sure they aren't clumped or something. Then give it a good rifle shuffle, and then allow your opponent to cut. This is perfectly legal, and a good way to ensure that cards don't stick (giving you better odds of not starting with a hand full of 3 luxray and 4 energy or something dumb), while ensuring that the deck is still random.
  11. PkmnManiac

    PkmnManiac New Member

    Isn't this where the term, "stacking" came from? Where you make it that you draw what you want, WHEN you want? You can just imagine where your Lux is and make it so the cut from the opponent puts said card where you need?
  12. hampuse1

    hampuse1 New Member

    That's why you cut at different places all time :p
  13. Pikabruce

    Pikabruce New Member

    I disagree. If I saw my opponent doing this, then instead of cutting his deck I would give it at least a half-dozen shuffles.
  14. toxictaipan

    toxictaipan New Member

    From the Compendium:
    It IS perfectly legal to rearrange cards in your deck in the middle of a search/before shuffling at the beginning of the game to insure that there are no undesirable clumps of cards present in your deck (10 Energy in a row, all 4 of your starter Pokemon are clumped together, etc.), as long as you are timely about it.

    As long as you shuffle the deck after doing so and offer a cut/shuffle to your opponent, it's fine.
  15. jeffrey123

    jeffrey123 New Member

    Awesome. Lawman excellent answer, Toxictaipan as well!
  16. chrataxe

    chrataxe New Member

    This may go down as one of the most irrelevant responses ever. What you are refering to is stacking the deck in order to give you exact cards. Ensuring you dont have a clumped deck is no where near the same thing. My steelix often has 7 energy attached at the end of a game. Likely, a benched blissey may have 2 dce. So, if I dont declump, 9 out of 11 cards may be energy. It is in my best interest, for the sake of my hand, not randomization, that my deck gets declumped. A much better analogy for you to use would have been to say that the previous winning hand was four of a kind with 3 players. If I dont declump, and we assume the 4 of a kind are on top, that means im dealing someone a pair, not me. Of course its in my best interest to shuffle the cards for my hands sake

    Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk
  17. mikeg542

    mikeg542 New Member

    Sometimes a completely randomized deck will have big clumps, that's the nature of RANDOM. If you always get a decent distributed draw of pokemon and energy, I'd very much say that you are cheating.
  18. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    From the Compendium:

    Q. I play an Oracle, and search for two cards. While I am searching, I find that I have a HUGE energy pocket coming up. So I break it up and add some trainers in between them. I then shuffle and put 2 cards on top. Is that legal?
    A. As long as you shuffle sufficiently afterwards. (Mar 25, 2004 PUI Rules Team)

    Is this not the same thing-ish?
  19. Dual_Draw

    Dual_Draw New Member

    Let's say I do this then.

    8 pile shuffle, purposely putting Tomb/Tomb/Tomb/Tomb/Gastly/Gastly/Gastly/Gaslty as the bottom card in each of those piles, I then shuffle the piles together in a random order. Is that considered illegal?
  20. mikeg542

    mikeg542 New Member

    But why would you do that? If you are going to shuffle them randomly after, this shouldn't make a difference, and if it does, then it is illegal.

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