Looking toward the future—Claydol.

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by deckmaster, May 14, 2008.

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  1. deckmaster

    deckmaster Active Member

    Hello Pokemaniacs,
    With Aerodactyl (Majestic Dawn) on the rise, and the threat of Cessation Crystal always looming to put our beloved Claydol’s Comic Power out of commission, made me think:what would be a good consistent replacement for Claydol? Personally, and depending on the Pokemon line of the deck, I think a good replacement for Claydol would be upping the count on key drawing supporter cards like Copy Cat, and maybe introducing Professor Oak’s Visit into the deck. These supporters still provide you with an abundant amount of cards without the hassle of setting up Claydol or worrying about cards that will harm him. Other helpful cards, but non-supporters like Master Ball, adds to the speed of the deck. Claydol will remain a vital draw card to most current decks by providing a “draw engine” every turn, but let’s not forget with Claydol on the field, you can never lose Wager—in theory. I started to think of replacements for Claydol because I believe there might be a better alternative of drawing cards each turn. And the fact that there will be decks looking to exploit our bench filling hero—who has been a reliable draw card since his release—has encouraged me to look for a substitute. Positive or negative, I would like to hear your opinion.

    Spread the love,
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  2. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    Cessation Crystal is gone next format (Lati-lock as well), so that will only impact Claydol for the rest of this season. Aerodactyl could be problematic, but I can't see that many decks running him (still not very easy to get out imo)

    Really though, I view Claydol as being an additional source of draw to what should be your regular draw cards, like Oak's Vist and whatever else. And it's hard to ignore the value that Wager + Cosmic Power can offer you. I mean, Delcatty can be a decent draw source, but you have to discard an energy to make it work, which doesn't lend itself to a good many decks out there. Really, only Birch has the most Claydol-esq effect, but he's a Supporter (unfriendly enough playing 1 a turn) and can by copied by Gardy.
  3. WinkWinkNudgeNudge

    WinkWinkNudgeNudge New Member

    Chatot's Mimic attack is Copycat. With it's free retreat it's not a bad starter. It could work witha deck that wins once setup.
  4. skarmory777

    skarmory777 New Member

    Chatot is amazing. Unfortunatly with Pachi in the environment his true potential probably can't be recognized.
  5. revdjweb

    revdjweb New Member

    glaceon lvl x and kabutops also pose major problems for claydol
    battle frontier is the best way to deal with aerodactyl
  6. Papi/Manny

    Papi/Manny New Member

    Aerodactyl is terrible. Theres no constant way to get him out fast enough to make him effective. And unless the deck is playing spread, the claydol player can still use the power twice with no risks (3 puts it in omastar range). And if they are spreading, by the dactyl gets in play, its effectiveness on the powers in play will be very limited.
  7. rhodesia123

    rhodesia123 New Member

    i doubt they would only have 1 dactyl in play
  8. Papi/Manny

    Papi/Manny New Member

    And I doubt you'll get 2 of them out t3 ever. Heck, I doubt any non-fossil deck can get 1 of them out that fast.
  9. Blue Zangoose

    Blue Zangoose New Member

    Turn 2 or if your going second: Holon fossil or rare candy, Omanyte PK or Celio/Fossil Excavator, water energy, and influence for two aero or one aero and kabuto/omanyte/ect. Goes over lati-lock and battle frontier as aeros are now basic.

    edit: Depends if the non-fossil deck runs omanyte/omastar and have water energy/multi energy... Empoleon... ;)

    edit 2: Fix'd. Also...
    Why would anyone run aero without any spread in the first place? I guess to threaten claydol? That way anyone playing this claydol can plan to ko it in exchange for a scramble after the second cosmic power?

    And if you are playing spread with a non-fossil deck, wouldn't it be a good idea to run a Omastar tech/line for multiple KOs? :confused:
    Last edited: May 14, 2008
  10. Papi/Manny

    Papi/Manny New Member

    Read my post again. Any NON-fossil deck, meaning no influence ready.
  11. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    Aerodactyl probably isn't going to be worth playing in any deck that doesn't feature fossils in a fairly substantial way. With that said it's not really that hard to get 2 out in fairly short order in a fossil based deck. Having those two out changes so much IMHO.
  12. Time for Pain

    Time for Pain <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?

    Fossil Excavator can't grab aerodactyl, also why would you use a rare candy on aerodactyl
  13. ShadowGuard

    ShadowGuard <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Pokémon that only stay on the bench to have a non-supporting PokéBody have failed all over this season, so I don't think Aero will get big.

    Ampharos SW... great body, up to 60 additional damage per turn since most decks need supporters to work. But did anyone play it in a succesful way? (btw weren't there discussions similar to this one about supporters that time?)

    Pidgeot d, locking down all powers from non-delta Pokémon. Sure, it needs a Holon Energy and would block own PokéPowers as well, but it's still very powerful. Very rarely seen, too.

    Aerodactyl is a stage 1, but a fossil evolution what makes it harder to build up, unless you are playing a pure fossil deck. Just like the other two cards mentioned above, it stays on the bench, doesn't help your deck's setup and has a very crappy attack.

    The body is powerful indeed, but in this case, I would count on the experience from similar examples like Ampharos SW. Aero is stackable, but unlike Ampharos it has additional problems with Battle Frontier and Dusknoir, cards seen very often in the current metagame, not only in Plox decks.

    So Claydol will keep its position. PokéPowers are the only way to have really stable draw power. If you use Delcatty or other cards instead of Claydol, they'll have the same problems with Aero, Cessation, Glaceon, Psychic Lock & co. Every card has its weakness - that's the game.

    Maybe Cynthia's Hope could be an option for next season if you want to play fast decks without supporting Pokémon.
  14. Shadow Zangoose

    Shadow Zangoose New Member

    Claydol isn't afraid of Aerodactyl. Why? BECAUSE HE HAS BEAM CANNONS FOR ARMS!
  15. skarmory777

    skarmory777 New Member

    Dusknoir will get teched into a lot of stuff. Use his power to throw dactyl back into the deck. The power resolves and dactyl isn't in play to do the damage anymore. Even if they don't play dactyl, limiting their field can be a real game breaker.
  16. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    I really like Dusknoir ... but really how many decks have the ability to get him out exactly when they need him? Most commonly he is run as a 1-0-1 line so you have to search out both the basic and stage 2 somehow and get RC in hand ... and hope that he's not prized.

    G&G can reasonably do that with Telepass. I think that a list focused on Pokemon serach could probably do it too. But as a random tech in most decks Dusknoir isn't all that easy or fast to do. It's worst for the decks that NEED Claydol to get stuff like their techs out. Real Catch-22 for them.

    Omastar also messes up Dusknoir. Even if Dusnkoir gets out, a quick Omastar + TGW and the other deck is nearly back to square 1 in terms of having him on the field.

    Kabutops could also make it impossible to play Rare Candy making it even more difficult to get out the 1-0-1 line.

    Kabutops, Omastar, and Aerodactyl support each other quite well ... but Kabutops and Aerodactyl both suffer when included in builds that aren't fossil based.
  17. skarmory777

    skarmory777 New Member

    It's not difficult. Jim Roll runs that with empoleon and it comes out all the time. Besides he's not really a "major" player in any deck. Just a solid tech to thin out their bench and make it easier to send major threats back to the deck. It forces them to play "in the turn". Call energy, roseannes research, and pachirisu all do a decent job of getting duskull out and then it's a matter of waiting. Like I said, he's not a major player but the power to limit their bench size and throw big threats(possibly making them waste candies) back into the deck isn't something I'd overlook. 1-0-1 line. that's two cards out of 60, and in most decks I'm seeing now space isn't as precious as it was before MD. The cards in MD allow you to pretty much combine two or three key cards before into one or two now. More space for things like dusknoir.
  18. deckmaster

    deckmaster Active Member

    Quoted for truth
  19. V_For_Vendetta

    V_For_Vendetta New Member

    *Looks at Latilock*
    *Reads Stage One on Aerodactyl*
    *Calculates odds of running Holon Fossil in non fossil deck*
    *Checks DIABEETUS Monitor*
    *Realizes that Latilock wrecks Aerodactyl's face*
    ...yeah. Not all that worries Personally.
  20. bonslypwns

    bonslypwns New Member

    Aero won't see much love. And even if... not many decks are surrounded by them besides skittles and PLOX. I think it's not a big threat. I think it won't matter.

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